What is the org doing wrong?

General discussion of Anime Music Videos
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godix
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What is the org doing wrong?

Post by godix » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:24 am

First, some observations

- Last Dec I uploaded a video to the org. A couple weeks later, I uploaded the exact same video to amvnews.ru. Neither was under a contest, special promotion, or anything that would draw any more attention to it than any other other typical video. On the org I did an announcement thread, link in my sig, and other normal acceptable pimping. On amvnews.ru I did nothing other than upload the vid. Currently the org entry has 1025 hits and 233 downloads (including previews). The amvnews.ru entry has 6475 hits and 1162 downloads (no idea if that includes previews or not).

- I just had a video which premiered in the AKROSS contest, it was put on their website earlier today. Having been up less than 24 hours, it has been viewed almost 1000 times already. Now granted, AKROSS is a big deal sort of contest and that alone drives a lot of views, but even so, AKROSS is currently only 60 or 70 hits away from matching the attention the above org copy has gotten in ten months. Except it happened on AKROSS in one day.

- One of my vids was a finalist in several AWA Pro categories, a similarly large contest, and in the five months it's been on the org it has yet to come close to a thousand views.

- I have had videos make it at least to the semi-finals in VCAs before as well, and one of those which has been up for three years now still has less downloads than amvnews.ru, which was not a contest submission.

- I don't believe amvnews.ru or AKROSS have more visitors than the org does, probably quite the reverse.

- I have won at cons before, more than once, and while those vids are among my more downloaded on the org they still don't come close to matching the views I've gotten on russian sites.

- Keep in mind that around the org I'm a known person. Because of that, I have noted that my releases get more attention, views, and comments in the announcement forum than unknown editors at least. On both amvnews and AKROSS where I am virtually unknown, I doubt more than 1 in 10 there have heard of me, much less actually know me.



So this isn't simply that contests draw more attention, that con submissions get more attention, that I'm a member of the community, or that more visitors = more views. It's simply that the two Russian sites have given my videos *FAR* more attention than the org ever has, despite most of these factors leaning towards giving the org an edge.

Now this post isn't about my videos (which is why I didn't name or link them), but rather what the community can do for editors. There's been talk before about what the org can do to accept noobs, how it's focus is on cataloging, how some feel it's too focused on editors rather than viewers, etc. However, it's pretty clear to me that if a noob asked how to get their videos seen, an honest answer would be to ignore the org entirely and become active in the Russian community. So I'm left wondering, what can the org do to promote videos to similar levels that the Russians do? Can it be done? Should it be done?
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EvaFan
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Re: What is the org doing wrong?

Post by EvaFan » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:46 am

Well the majority of USA users frequent the tube before this site I can't say the same for the Russians but I would think they were more localized to amvnews before the tube.

I think some of it if not most has to do with our reputation. I remember reading somewhere about zeph and someone talking to a girl at a con about uploading their vid here and not wanting to cause she didn't want to be "bashed" etc etc... The problem is simply that. One person gets bashed, goes back to tube... Tells all their friends that the org is full of assholes when really it was and has for the most part always been just the few typical people. We have a clique here but those are everywhere and ours has been fizzling out of over the years if you ask me. Since our community is smaller then the tube's the assholes are more noticeable and its made easier for them to find you.

I don't think the org has ever done or is currently doing anything wrong. If anything it's certain people and attitudes that have lead to the bad rep. That's not something you can fix overnight + i'd wager majority of the admins are afraid of overusing their powers or just aren't really sure when a problem deems some course of action till "flaming" or "bashing" or "trolling" etc... is already out of hand.

Lately though it seems like the attitudes have gotten better too IMO but that doesn't mean its just going to make everything better right away.

Like I said though, I honestly don't think the org is doing anything wrong. Potentially its the whole catalog and upload process that is somewhat confusing and might be straying new people away, that's really the only thing the org might be possibly doing wrong IMO. We get people coming to us with FTP problems on a regular basis it seems. I don't know how amvnews works in this regard, never done anything there cept watch vids. However I think simplifying that process some how would help alot.
"The people cannot be [...] always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to [...] the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to public liberty. What country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not warned [...] that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants."-Thomas Jefferson

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OropherZero
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Re: What is the org doing wrong?

Post by OropherZero » Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:52 am

as I've been saying in the IRC channel, .org has a terrible interface which clunks information all over the place rather than AKROSS which is more concise and displays everything on one page. AKROSS also balances out the text info of the vids with images, making it a lot more presentable and MOST OF ALL there is a public commenting system. Hell I would rather leave a comment on your vid on the akross video page rather than on a forum which isn't directly linked to your video description page here. It's like saying anime blogs should have their pictures on one page and their public commenting section on another, just doesn't work y'know? :roll:

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OropherZero
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Re: What is the org doing wrong?

Post by OropherZero » Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:54 am

By clunking info everywhere I also mean that if someone doesn't 3 opinion your video on .org or have donator status to see the average star rating, then there is little indication on whether they should download it or not, whereas AKROSS can use the commenting system.

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OropherZero
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Re: What is the org doing wrong?

Post by OropherZero » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:05 am

Oh and .org you have to log in to downlaod, and even then if not a donator have to click 'next' 'next' 'FILL OUT STAR RATING RAGEMODE'. Someone can just send me a link to an AKROSS vid and I can just right click and save as and its mine. You'll be amazed as to how many people I asked about .org who say that they are too lazy to create an account to download vids locally. Some even think the '2 weeks to confirm account' from over 5 years ago still apply =P Basically there are so many usability issues with .org that none of this is surprising really.

Also edit button on this forum section built on discussion = where? :/

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Kireblue
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Re: What is the org doing wrong?

Post by Kireblue » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:01 am

also, in order to find a video on the org, you have to search for it. So if a anime or song isn't popular, a video made with it may never see the light of day. And if a anime or song is too popular, a search for it will have too many results, and most of the videos will be ignored.

On the Akross website, you can simply view a list of every single video ever submitted and pick what looks interesting. Out of random coincidence, I clicked on your "Longed for him. Got him. Shit" video without even noticing that it was made by you.

And then, AMVnews does an even better job at featuring videos. Not only do you get a list of every video, but the list is actually on the homepage and even includes a screenshot from it.

So in short, the thing that the org is doing wrong is that the "AMV Spotlight" only features one video at random while AMVnews is currently featuring 144 pages worth of videos on their homepage (dating back to 2006). And the AMV spotlight for the org isn't even on the member's main page. It's only on the site's main page. I doubt that most members don't even bother going to the site's homepage.
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/home/home.php

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Castor Troy
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Re: What is the org doing wrong?

Post by Castor Troy » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:13 am

Looks like I'm learning Russian.
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Re: What is the org doing wrong?

Post by Nya-chan Production » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:42 am

More and more I realize that the redesign comes in the last moment possible >.>
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Re: What is the org doing wrong?

Post by dokidoki » Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:04 am

kireblue wrote:And the AMV spotlight for the org isn't even on the member's main page. It's only on the site's main page. I doubt that most members don't even bother going to the site's homepage.
It wasn't made for members. It was made to give new people a sample of what's here.
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Kireblue
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Re: What is the org doing wrong?

Post by Kireblue » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:12 am

dokidoki wrote:
kireblue wrote:And the AMV spotlight for the org isn't even on the member's main page. It's only on the site's main page. I doubt that most members don't even bother going to the site's homepage.
It wasn't made for members. It was made to give new people a sample of what's here.
Yeah, but it just seems like things on the org's site are so compact that they don't really stand out much. For example, the "new vid on the block" drop down menu is at the bottom right of the members page, only list the name of the video, only list the newest 10, and is easy to ignore. On the other hand, the videos on AMVnews are in the dead center of the page, list all the video's information (including editor's comments, anime and song choice), has over a hundred pages of videos, and is impossible to miss.

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