State of the Org - 10-13-10

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State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby GloryQuestor » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:58 am

You have all been wondering for a long time about the state of the Org -- why we aren't providing feedback, why we're basically keeping mum about some things, and where the community is going. I can tell you that the administration has not been lax on this -- we are willing to listen, but certain realities need to be addressed, also.

There apparently have been misgiving about the administration. We've been accused of not taking anything some of you have said seriously. Let me tell you that we are taking everything seriously and that we are working to try and make things better.

We know all about the website's technical issues, but there's not much we can do right now. It was created a long time ago and the design has been limiting the administration from doing what it can to improve. Rest assured that we have been addressing your feedback about the technical side of things by working on what will eventually amount to a website reboot. Once completed, it will make things easier for us to do, which in turn will allow us to have the website address the needs of the community better. The project is being worked on by our staff in their free time, however, so we also ask for patience in its completion.

One of the goals we have set has been promoting the website and community at conventions. To that end, I've been handing out business cards at Anime Central and Anime Weekend Atlanta, two of the biggest venues for AMVs, in an effort to get more people to check out the site. This stemmed from questions about where to find AMVs that play in the convention rooms, and I feel that this is a positive first step we've taken in getting our existence back out into the public mind.

To complement our website promotion, we will need the community's help, as well. When you go to your local convention, bring along your laptop, notebook, or smartphone--start showing people our art rather than expecting people to know about it. Show them the website and the many different things it offers. Volunteer to staff your nearest convention's video room (or AMV room, if they have one). Meet and greet with other AMV fans and editors out there and invite them to come here if they are not a member.

To sum it up, we are doing what we can do to make the site a better place to visit. The administration is made up of fans and editors just like all of you. We may act like we are silent on many things, but we are certainly taking your words to heart and working towards the future of the community.

Now it's time to reiterate the harsh reality. The site owner, Phade, has said almost four years ago now that with the advent of YouTube, the hobby's days are numbered. Things in the industries certainly have gotten worse for AMVs. The Japanese animation industry isn't doing so well, with loss in revenue and the closure or restructuring of many productions and publishing companies both in Japan and internationally. The music industry has begun "fingerprinting" and cracking down on AMVs and other fan music videos on YouTube by disabling the music output. The trends for our hobby are even more working against us, rather than for us. What may happen is always going to be on the minds of those in the community, and in the administration. We will be keeping a close eye on the industries and should let you know if any major shifts occur that may affect our hobby.

Finally, let me assure you that, no matter what happens, we will continue to be a repository of AMV knowledge and a community portal for a long time to come. We do welcome new people into the community, and we are always sad when someone announces their retirement from it (even though they do tend to come back eventually :roll: ). The reception received from the passing of Justin Rollins has shown us that the community does care about the connections we make in the creation and propagation of our art. The community is here because we all like our art, and we're all willing to share it together.

If you have any questions for myself about the administration of the Org, now's the time to ask. Don't worry if I don't get back to you right away, but I will get back to you. :wink:
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby SnhKnives » Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:29 pm

God speed men...
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Vlad G Pohnert » Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:14 pm

If it's the org's goal is to promote itself, it need to see what it can do with those who run AMV Rooms.. I run more then anyone else and haven't really been approached with a discussion on options directly... That's a good place to start to see what conventions are willing to do for us, and what we can do for them.

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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Pwolf » Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:24 pm

I think a lot of people don't realize is that the org was originally created to be a repository of amvs, not a content distribution center. At the time of it's creation it wasn't even meant to be the community hub it turned into. Over the years its grown to add more community features and allow us a free place to host our videos but the underlying system that's been in place since the beginning hasn't changed much at all. It's still built to be a repository of information and the website is designed around that.

Other amv community websites and video distribution sites, like youtube, have been gaining a bigger foothold because they were built to showcase and distribute content, not just display data. The org can't compete with those because it's not designed to compete with them. You can't expect people who are coming from youtube to understand how our process works. It's way too involved for someone who isn't familiar with how the org operates. Not to mention the method for entering data is old and confusing as well. For us seasoned veterans, we are used to this but the newbs of today, as tech savvy as they might be, like things to be simple and fast in process. The org is neither.

Over the years we've had staff come and go but we haven't had a whole lot of programmers step up to the plate to try and add, fix, or change the website to make it better. You can whine and moan about the problems we have and say you've tried to help but how come I don't see your name in the programmer's forum? Don't know how to program? If you want to help, learn how. We don't need moderators, we don't need admins, we need programmers.

Nothing will get done unless there's someone there to do it. The sad truth is, we don't have that many people running the site and definitely not enough programmers. Youtube has the entire Google corporation behind it. When it needs something done, it happens. They also get paid to do it. The org is different in that the entire website is run by members of the community. We take time out of our day to make sure the rest of the community has a place to the share their work. It's not easy when you have a life outside the hobby. With the org being as large of a community website as it is, it just takes that much more work and time.

Bottom line is if people really want the org to live and return to it's glory, help us on the programming side. We need coders and people willing to donate their time. We don't need newsletters or videos of the day or podcasts or community reviews or anything else you people have been trying to add. At this moment and for many years, we need programmers. Without programmers NONE of the things you guys want from the org are going to happen. None of it.

I'll be the first one to admit that I haven't done my part. I've been a "trusted programmer" for years on the org but I haven't contributed a single line of code. I've commented on and discussed many different things regarding the inner workings of the site with the active programmers and staff. I think that's better then nothing. During this recode i've been giving my two cents and hopefully i'll actually contribute some code as well when the time comes. That time will never come though if there aren't enough people to make it happen.

So, get off your asses and learn php :|
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby CastielTheFallen » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:02 pm

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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Kenzichu » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:34 pm

I'm just gonna say this, I have had to dispute with youtube whenever they turn off my music or disabling playback in some countries. It's getting rather annoying, but the org doesn't turn off my music. I've told this to many of my friends and even got one of them to start editing. I tried to meet Proz after my amv was played at San Japan, I wanted to ask him why the a-m-v.org logo wasn't being shown. It was bothersome. I mean, Animemusicvideos.org is the authority on amvs..there was no mention of it at all at conventions! But I wanted around for an hour, and by then i had to go home. Either way, I will do my best to promote a-m-v.org by word of mouth. Thankies for letting all of us know what's going on!

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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby kireblue » Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:00 am

GloryQuestor wrote:One of the goals we have set has been promoting the website and community at conventions. To that end, I've been handing out business cards at Anime Central and Anime Weekend Atlanta, two of the biggest venues for AMVs, in an effort to get more people to check out the site. This stemmed from questions about where to find AMVs that play in the convention rooms, and I feel that this is a positive first step we've taken in getting our existence back out into the public mind.

To complement our website promotion, we will need the community's help, as well. When you go to your local convention, bring along your laptop, notebook, or smartphone--start showing people our art rather than expecting people to know about it. Show them the website and the many different things it offers. Volunteer to staff your nearest convention's video room (or AMV room, if they have one). Meet and greet with other AMV fans and editors out there and invite them to come here if they are not a member.

I'd be willing to buy some of those business cards from you. Can you make them available to purchase at the site store? I could pass them out during Momocon and whenever I do a panel or AMV related event.
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby OropherZero » Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:46 am

Pwolf wrote:So, get off your asses and learn php :|


<?php

?>
All all seriousness what you say is hypocritical. I've been asking this a lot over the past few years yet everytime the response was 'we already have programmers and don't want anyone else in'.
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Nya-chan Production » Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:52 am

(More like "Nobody can get anything done in the current state", but don't tell anyone, it's a secret ;x)

Anyway, if you're still interested, Oro, we can look into it ^^
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby ZephyrStar » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:05 am

haunter103 and myself ran into a fellow creator at AWA in the dealer's room. She had a video in the contest, she said it was her first time entering the contest. I mentioned the org, and asked her if she knew of it, and she replied with something like "no, I stay away from there, all they do is rip you a new one. I'll be much better off on youtube." I don't think anything can be done about this. Whether she doesn't understand constructive criticism, or whether she was actually harassed and insulted by somebody, how do we reach out to new editors? How do we make them understand? I dunno :/
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Pwolf » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:37 am

OropherZero wrote:
Pwolf wrote:So, get off your asses and learn php :|


<?php

?>
All all seriousness what you say is hypocritical. I've been asking this a lot over the past few years yet everytime the response was 'we already have programmers and don't want anyone else in'.


Who said that?
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Pwolf » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:43 am

ZephyrStar wrote:haunter103 and myself ran into a fellow creator at AWA in the dealer's room. She had a video in the contest, she said it was her first time entering the contest. I mentioned the org, and asked her if she knew of it, and she replied with something like "no, I stay away from there, all they do is rip you a new one. I'll be much better off on youtube." I don't think anything can be done about this. Whether she doesn't understand constructive criticism, or whether she was actually harassed and insulted by somebody, how do we reach out to new editors? How do we make them understand? I dunno :/


Youtube is a great place for instant gratification... If it's not instant, its at least a lot less critical. We tend to be too honest here, or a at least a little bit more honest. New people like youtube because they can get that instant gratification... as soon as they come here, their little world is crushed. I don't think that's a bad thing. It's been the reality of the org for a long time. I don't think the org needs to change that. The org just needs to make itself more accessible as a resource for AMV editing knowledge and not try to compete as a content distribution center like youtube.
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby JudgeHolden » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:15 am

Also, people need to donate. If anything will really end the org's existance it will be lack of capital. I know this is something Phade worries about.
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby HalOfBorg » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:58 am

When/if I get rich, there are several sites/companies that will profit nicely, so hope for the massive success of "Star Ruler".
Help HalOfBorg fight his cancer - http://www.gofundme.com/21ygdk

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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Vivaldi » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:06 pm

ZephyrStar wrote:haunter103 and myself ran into a fellow creator at AWA in the dealer's room. She had a video in the contest, she said it was her first time entering the contest. I mentioned the org, and asked her if she knew of it, and she replied with something like "no, I stay away from there, all they do is rip you a new one. I'll be much better off on youtube." I don't think anything can be done about this. Whether she doesn't understand constructive criticism, or whether she was actually harassed and insulted by somebody, how do we reach out to new editors? How do we make them understand? I dunno :/


It's not so much "understanding" constructive criticism as placing a different value on it, and I'm not sure I disagree. For starters, let me point out constructive criticism and harassment are not actually mutually exclusive. For most people posting a video they had a presumably good, if not exhausting, time making, and then becoming suffocated under a deluge "constructive" critique that's both humiliating and unwanted in the first place is rightfully a huge turnoff. Some people claim that academic critique is the most, or indeed only valuable thing to say about a video, and that those who want otherwise are ultimately worthless as amv makers and generally narcissistic. I find this notion absurd, the fact is people make and post videos to participate in the community. Amvs are something they enjoy, and in the digital sense people just want to hang out. To talk about amvs rather than constructively argue. This isn't just an anomaly of the amv hobby, look at film, music, writing, or art: the kind of analytic criticism we pat ourselves on the back for generously giving is usually grossly inappropriate outside of a competition environment.

A codified ruleset for discussing amvs is ridiculous, but for my money I'd say the announcement threads are intended for saying what you think, not for actual analysis. If you generally liked an amv, say you like it. If you didn't just say "meh" or refrain from posting. If you know them closely or they're clearly asking for a grating opinion, feel free to say what you want. It's not rocket science, just basic etiquette


Basically just chill out, the fact that we're actually seriously discussing how to not act like douchbags when people post videos means I've broken my own rule.
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