AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo 4 days left, August 20

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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby Prodigi » Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:53 pm

NS wrote:
Pwolf wrote:I think my example was terrible... I just don't think someone who enters Pro (or any contest for that matter) should be forced to watch a video they would feel uncomfortable watching just because they signed something saying they are 18+ years old. I think if it was a mandatory requirement to watch every video then there would be a lot less entries cause there are people out there who wont watch certain things. Would a reasonable solution be to opt out of judging but still be allowed to submit?

If you can't watch everything that comes your way then don't fucking enter :\

If I'm an avid religious person, and I start to watch a video in the competition that I find to be highly offensive to my belief system and my religion (I'm using this as an example, I'm not referring to H vids), do I have to sit through it and watch it and judge it on it's "artistic merits" or are my personal beliefs enough so that I can skip over it? I personally believe if something makes you uncomfortable enough regardless of the fact you "signed up" for Pro you should be able to skip it. That said, it doesn't mean you can turn around and vote against it just soully for that reason. If it makes you uncomfortable, don't watch it, but leave it at that.
NS wrote:Now yer just being a nitpicking faggot, sorry.

No. If you read back over everything you've written you are the one who's acting like a tool. Your arguments have less to do with your beliefs and more to do with the fact that you consistently like to pick a fight. Believe whatever you want to believe but don't start throwing around statements like that because all it proves is that you couldn't care less about the topic of the argument and that all you care about is the argument itself. If you were taking it seriously you'd leave things constructive and have a back and forth discussion and instead of going "no, you're wrong faggot, i'm right". :roll:
SailorDeath wrote:
Pwolf wrote:On a side note, the very act of someone NOT watching an H amv tells the editor what their opinion is.


Not to be mean or rude, (as that's not my intention for replying to this, plus I consider you a good friend) the message it sends to me is:

"I won't even give this a chance."

It also makes me feel like I wasted my time working on something I had fun making if nobody's even going to consider it. I don't care if my videos win or lose, but I do like to think that it had an honest shot at competing.

I see where you're coming from but I personally disagree. I think it's less of making the statement "I won't even give this a chance" and more like making the statement "this is something I'm not comfortable with, and for that reason I can't in good conscious leave feedback, either positive or negative, on this piece of work".

I think with most people who won't watch the H videos it's less because they don't like H vids, but rather that they make them uncomfortable. Should we really have to put a rule around it saying "if you enter then you have to watch everything" and either: a) lose all editors who are uncomfortable about H vids, or b) force people to be put out of their comfort zone?

I see the merits in H vids. I think a lot of editors who don't watch them would agree that it's less because "H videos suck" and more because "I'm not comfortable with the content". H videos are just like any other type of video, and they have their merits and they do deserve feedback. But I think forcing people who aren't comfortable to provide feedback is just counter-intuitive.

I don't care what anyone else thinks, but I won't be forced out of my comfort zone. If that means in future a "you must watch all entries" rule is enforced then I guess I won't be entering Pro anymore. That's just how I feel and I won't be forced to change.
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby Nya-chan Production » Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:57 pm

(kholaras's thoughts ATM: "Maybe it was a bad idea to mark those L and H vids after all.")
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby Pwolf » Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:59 pm

outlawed wrote:
Pwolf wrote:Maybe I missed something, but every year I submitted, I've never received any feedback from anyone other then an award. I usually don't read the forum posts where people review each video. The only time anyone gives me any feedback on the video I submitted is when I release it on the org. So there really isn't any give or take experience, from my point of view.


You take from the "Judging Process" and by that I mean participating in judging the entries. You yourself said you didn't judge one year because you didn't have time to watch any of the entries. It's hard to take anything out of that experience when you aren't judging let alone watching any of the entries=p

Should I be alarmed? Is this how a lot of people take the judging process? To me the most important thing people can take out of Pro is watching all those videos and making their own critique to rank them for voting. Some people are clearly doing this based on the discussions in this thread.


Not to sound elitist or "better then thou" but personally don't really get anything out of watching videos or judging them. The only reasons I like entering pro are because it's blind and there's a level of participation outside of just being a contestant. But I don't expect every editor who enters the contest to watch every video or to submit a video that's never been released. My whole argument about this is that I think that's an unreasonable expectation to put on someone. That's my opinion. If the rules stated it has to be done a specific way, then I would follow the rules or not enter. "Common courtesy" is only what you want it to be. To me it would be common courtesy to be accepting of those who might find some content to be too uncomfortable to watch and accept that and also accept that some people aren't going to be able to watch every video due to what ever reasons they might have.

Nya-chan Production wrote:(kholaras's thoughts ATM: "Maybe it was a bad idea to mark those L and H vids after all.")


I agree, they shouldn't have been marked... because then at least the viewer would've watch the video and can decide at that point if it's something they don't want to watch.
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby SailorDeath » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:02 pm

Prodigi wrote:I see where you're coming from but I personally disagree. I think it's less of making the statement "I won't even give this a chance" and more like making the statement "this is something I'm not comfortable with, and for that reason I can't in good conscious leave feedback, either positive or negative, on this piece of work".


The point I was making wasn't what they're thinking, it was the message that it sends to me. I can honestly say that's how I would feel if someone skipped watching a video I've made based solely on its content.

Prodigi wrote:I don't care what anyone else thinks, but I won't be forced out of my comfort zone. If that means in future a "you must watch all entries" rule is enforced then I guess I won't be entering Pro anymore. That's just how I feel and I won't be forced to change.


That's my point exactly, if you feel uncomfortable about hentai, then don't enter a contest that allows it.
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby outlawed » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:05 pm

Pwolf wrote:you can't expect everyone to watch it. Even if someone watches it that's not going to guarantee anything cause their bias is going to play a much larger role then your editing. Personally, if I made an H video, I would rather have people who have no bias against it judge it then have people who do.


As has been already proven we can't expect everyone to watch all the entries but we can hope for and advocate that as a community. Since H entries and other content which someone might find objectionable (like if a video were flagged ultra-violence) are in the contest regardless, judging bias has no bearing when comparing a no view to a view. A score of 0 can only go up. Now if you want to argue that this content is not appropriate for Pro and should have another contest that argument makes sense but so far no one has been willing to make that argument.

I'm not keen on flagging videos. But the comfort zone comments are one of the reasons disclaimers exist. It sounds like they flagged more than just 18+ vids though? I keep posting all this junk in here because I think if a bunch of people are being made uncomfortable and this is not working out and submitters have been turned off then maybe it's time to segregate the 18+ videos to a separate contest?
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby Prodigi » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:06 pm

SailorDeath wrote:
Prodigi wrote:I see where you're coming from but I personally disagree. I think it's less of making the statement "I won't even give this a chance" and more like making the statement "this is something I'm not comfortable with, and for that reason I can't in good conscious leave feedback, either positive or negative, on this piece of work".


The point I was making wasn't what they're thinking, it was the message that it sends to me. I can honestly say that's how I would feel if someone skipped watching a video I've made based solely on its content.

Prodigi wrote:I don't care what anyone else thinks, but I won't be forced out of my comfort zone. If that means in future a "you must watch all entries" rule is enforced then I guess I won't be entering Pro anymore. That's just how I feel and I won't be forced to change.


That's my point exactly, if you feel uncomfortable about hentai, then don't enter a contest that allows it.

Well I'm gonna keep entering for now, but if they turn around and enforce that as a rule then I'll stop. But for now I see no reason to,
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby CodeZTM » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:06 pm

Prodigi wrote:I think with most people who won't watch the H videos it's less because they don't like H vids, but rather that they make them uncomfortable. Should we really have to put a rule around it saying "if you enter then you have to watch everything" and either: a) lose all editors who are uncomfortable about H vids, or b) force people to be put out of their comfort zone?

I see the merits in H vids. I think a lot of editors who don't watch them would agree that it's less because "H videos suck" and more because "I'm not comfortable with the content". H videos are just like any other type of video, and they have their merits and they do deserve feedback. But I think forcing people who aren't comfortable to provide feedback is just counter-intuitive.

I don't care what anyone else thinks, but I won't be forced out of my comfort zone. If that means in future a "you must watch all entries" rule is enforced then I guess I won't be entering Pro anymore. That's just how I feel and I won't be forced to change.


Hate to add fuel to the fire, but I really agree.

Personally, I think sex and the graphic representation of it can have artistic merit in videos. Not all videos that use hentai are just immediately bad. However, what bothered me is that there were several entries that seemed to focus just on the sex and didn't have much beyond shock factor. The one with Caramelldansen especially disturbed me, and I was not only uncomfortable having seen it, but I also really don't feel safe with it on my hard drive. :uhoh:

Frankly, I'll probably not come back to pro because of this reason. I agreed to judge the videos this year, so like i said, I judged all the videos, for better or for worse. I take most commitments seriously. But, when I saw the 18+ thing, I didn't honestly think the graphic nature of it would go beyond a certain level. It's just something I'm not comfortable seeing, and now that I know that this is what Pro allows in, I'll remember it for future references. That's one thing that I really think the other cons do a lot better with, having separate divisions for different content ratings of videos.
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby SailorDeath » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:09 pm

There's one thing I can honestly take away from all of this. If someone creates a hentai amv and it actually wins in a major category (and not not made for just hentai entries) then that creator truly made something epic.
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby Scintilla » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:16 pm

outlawed wrote:I'm not keen on flagging videos. But the comfort zone comments are one of the reasons disclaimers exist. It sounds like they flagged more than just 18+ vids though? I keep posting all this junk in here because I think if a bunch of people are being made uncomfortable and this is not working out and submitters have been turned off then maybe it's time to segregate the 18+ videos to a separate contest?

I'd support this.

CodeZTM wrote:But, when I saw the 18+ thing, I didn't honestly think the graphic nature of it would go beyond a certain level. It's just something I'm not comfortable seeing, and now that I know that this is what Pro allows in, I'll remember it for future references. That's one thing that I really think the other cons do a lot better with, having separate divisions for different content ratings of videos.

I always thought the reason AWA Pro always gets certain 18+ videos was because almost no other conventions will take them?...

And if I remember correctly, in 2004 and 2005 we did have a few 18+ videos but nothing nearly as offensive as one or two of the videos from last year.
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby SailorDeath » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:21 pm

Scintilla wrote:And if I remember correctly, in 2004 and 2005 we did have a few 18+ videos but nothing nearly as offensive as one or two of the videos from last year.


That hentai I entered in 2004 was honestly made because I thought it was a hilarious idea. Legend of the overfiend with DaVinci's Notebook's Enormous Penis? It was a combo that had a lot of people laughing when they saw it for the first time.

EDIT: Fix'd in bold, just in case people thought I was talking about this year's contest.
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby outlawed » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:22 pm

Pwolf wrote:Not to sound elitist or "better then thou" but personally don't really get anything out of watching videos or judging them. The only reasons I like entering pro are because it's blind and there's a level of participation outside of just being a contestant. But I don't expect every editor who enters the contest to watch every video or to submit a video that's never been released. My whole argument about this is that I think that's an unreasonable expectation to put on someone. That's my opinion.


Don't worry you don't sound elitist to me. You do seem to contradict yourself here though. You say you like the Pro contest because there's a level of participation outside of being a contestant. If that participation is not judging then what is it? If you say it's judging then how do you logically claim to be a good judge if you don't watch all the entries (presume no 18+) ? One of the best things you can take out of judging all the entries is achieving a state of supreme patience/bliss or gouging out your eyeballs. It's a mental challenge =p

I'm a cynic so I don't expect they will watch all of them either. I will advocate it though. Is it unreasonable to ask this because you don't want to do it (and let's presume once again there is no 18+ stuff in the contest) ?

I know it may seem like I'm picking on you but that's only because you're the only one so far who has had the balls to broach the judging problem. It touches on how I see some of the community viewing AWA Pro. My take is I see lost opportunity every time I see some people rail on about "oh god Pro sucked this year I don't know if I will bother next time".
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby godix » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:24 pm

Ya know, if someone doesn't watch all (or any) of the videos and doesn't vote, fine. If you don't want to watch, then don't. But also don't pretend you can judge fairly when you haven't even bothered to see all the videos.
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby NS » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:29 pm

You bring up a good point, If the video offended in an extreme way, I would say it'd be ok for them to skip it, but I would even say it would have to be pretty severe...

I do agree that I was kind of a douche, and I didn't need to call him a faggot, but he was still being nit-picky. Changing a word from "Ask" to "Require"... It's kinda like, Ask is a less serious word I suppose, but I'd imagine the general meaning is still the same.

Also, yah.. I suppose I could be constructive and Not just argue to argue... I do apologize, scott, for just fucking badgering you instead of talking in any intelligent way.
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby Prodigi » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:35 pm

NS wrote:You bring up a good point, If the video offended in an extreme way, I would say it'd be ok for them to skip it, but I would even say it would have to be pretty severe...

I do agree that I was kind of a douche, and I didn't need to call him a faggot, but he was still being nit-picky. Changing a word from "Ask" to "Require"... It's kinda like, Ask is a less serious word I suppose, but I'd imagine the general meaning is still the same.

Also, yah.. I suppose I could be constructive and Not just argue to argue... I do apologize, scott, for just fucking badgering you instead of talking in any intelligent way.

And after you said that I just wanna say thank you for not being a trolling jackass like a lot of people can do on this forum and actually being cool about it :up:
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby Pwolf » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:53 pm

outlawed wrote:
Pwolf wrote:Not to sound elitist or "better then thou" but personally don't really get anything out of watching videos or judging them. The only reasons I like entering pro are because it's blind and there's a level of participation outside of just being a contestant. But I don't expect every editor who enters the contest to watch every video or to submit a video that's never been released. My whole argument about this is that I think that's an unreasonable expectation to put on someone. That's my opinion.


Don't worry you don't sound elitist to me. You do seem to contradict yourself here though. You say you like the Pro contest because there's a level of participation outside of being a contestant. If that participation is not judging then what is it? If you say it's judging then how do you logically claim to be a good judge if you don't watch all the entries (presume no 18+) ? One of the best things you can take out of judging all the entries is achieving a state of supreme patience/bliss or gouging out your eyeballs. It's a mental challenge =p

I'm a cynic so I don't expect they will watch all of them either. I will advocate it though. Is it unreasonable to ask this because you don't want to do it (and let's presume once again there is no 18+ stuff in the contest) ?

I know it may seem like I'm picking on you but that's only because you're the only one so far who has had the balls to broach the judging problem. It touches on how I see some of the community viewing AWA Pro. My take is I see lost opportunity every time I see some people rail on about "oh god Pro sucked this year I don't know if I will bother next time".


Part of it is the judging, at least in the past that was the case, but the "level of participation" is more on the lines of going through the process of submitting and watching the videos while not knowing who did what. There's a kind of addictive touch to it I think even though I don't like watching videos that much. I think the idea of finding a gem and not know who made it is what I like. I've never claimed to be a good judge and I wouldn't consider anyone to be a good judge. Everyone has a bias so I never go into a contest thinking it'll be fair. It would be great, but it's not realistic IMO (because of exactly what we are discussing).

I'm all for advocating that everyone watch all the videos. When I finally sit down and watch them, I hope I can watch them all. But don't get upset if i don't watch them all, that's all i'm saying.

No worries about the picking on me thing, it's all discussion. As long as it's kept civil, it's all good :P

NS wrote:Changing a word from "Ask" to "Require"... It's kinda like, Ask is a less serious word I suppose, but I'd imagine the general meaning is still the same.


Yes, maybe it is nit-picky but it's important to distinguish what the coordinator really wants to happen. It's like giving someone advice and then expecting them to do what you say. That's just stupid. That's why it's called advice and not something else. I interpreted the statement as, "By entering the contest you can expect to watch and judge 6+ hours of videos." Nothing in there says I have to watch all 6+hours. if the statement said "You will be required to watch and judge as much as six hours of videos" then we have a rule that says you must watch all videos. If you want people to do something the way you want it you have to specific. Here's a great idea... on the waver, have a line saying "I ______________ will watch all of the videos and judge them without prejudice or bias." You can argue all you want then :P
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