Anime Expo 2010 Iron Chef AMV Contest

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Re: Anime Expo 2010 Iron Chef AMV Contest

Postby Impurse » Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:32 am

I definitely enjoyed this event thoroughly. Besides the competition, it was great to really see what it takes go make AMVs , I must say that I completely underestimated the whole process of making them. Thanks a lot of giving us the opportunity to ask questions and for showing us some top notch AMVs.

For next year, a big room would be great ^_^
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Re: Anime Expo 2010 Iron Chef AMV Contest

Postby MisterFurious » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:35 am

Niotex wrote:I'd run over a few suggestions but I'm honestly afraid they'll fall on deaf ears.


Please, try me. We took Yue and Kitsuner's advice on the spot and started running more videos.

It's easy to feel after all the drama of the contest that Iron Chef would be more of the same. However, I want to stress that Iron Chef is an opportunity for AMV's to have a larger presence at AX, and as long as I'm involved with it, I want to make it more of a community effort for everyone's enjoyment. If you don't pipe up with your ideas, we can't very well try to implement them, can we? If you're concerned about criticism of your suggestions from other members, then go ahead and PM them to me. I promise I'll listen, and give you my honest opinion.

No need to have posted your picture. I believe that you were there.
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Re: Anime Expo 2010 Iron Chef AMV Contest

Postby MisterFurious » Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:45 am

Pwolf wrote:Well, considering that I wasn't there but from the few people I know that were, I wouldn't call it an "Unbelievable success" in the sense that it sounds like you guys would've been completely screwed if it wasn't for John and other AMVers stepping up to fix technical problems and provide content.


I think a lot of the nay-sayers are forgetting to take some facts into account. We had only two weeks to get all this set up. AX provided us with a limited number of connections to their board. It was up to us to conform to their standard rig, and Troy was able to marshal the computers, cables, and connections, mostly by raiding his company's supplies. He pulled unused hard drives from stock and loaned them to Nic to transcode all six of the sources onto. During this time, we naturally had hardware problems, and Troy stayed late at the studio to rectify them. He only succeded in getting the machines running at 100% a few days before the con. He drove all the way to Temecula to borrow his dad's truck so he could shlep everything from his office to the convention center, and put everything together on site.

Even so, we were prepared for the worst to happen. Troy even prepared a third computer in case one of the editing machines died.

So what ultimately went wrong? Troy forgot that the KVM switcher required a PS2 keyboard to type in a password, and we couldn't find such an ancient piece of equipment on-site. As a result, the main monitor had blue squares on it and "password" superimposed over a fraction of the image. The video cable was wonky and didn't feed green. Some Iron Chefs did not bring any of their AMV's, so we had a shortage. Kitsuner was kind enough to chip in and provide his own hard drive with music videos on it (something we didn't have time to complile, since we were too busy setting up the equipment). And BaitMaster's machine stalled on the first attempt at final render. Simply cancelling and retrying fixed it, a delay of seven minutes.

Should we have stopped the show and sent everyone home because things weren't perfect? Hell no! These were minor inconveniences. The show went on, and we adapted as best we could, but we got it done, and everyone (save for a few) had a great time! With the time constraints and technical limitations, forget "unbelievable success", that's a miracle in my book.

Yes, we can certainly do better, but now we have a whole year to plan, and as I already made clear, I am wide open to suggestions. For example, we have a lot of time now to build a small computer that has a ton of AMV's on it for screening purposes. I also want to make sure next year's editing tables have desk lamps, so we can turn off the house lights to screen videos without disturbing editors' work flow. Naturally, a larger room will be in order.

Instead of dwelling on what went wrong in the past, let's learn from it to improve our future. AX allowed us to have an Iron Chef contest, something they've refused to do for 10 years. If we work together, I really believe we can make serious inroads to having more AMV events on the AX schedule that we control.

Viva la revoluciòn!
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Re: Anime Expo 2010 Iron Chef AMV Contest

Postby Impurse » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:02 pm

It's pretty amazing that this went well though and with more time in hand for next year, better things will come xD

Honestly, sitting in for 3 hours killed my butt but I don't care, it was totally worth it.
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Re: Anime Expo 2010 Iron Chef AMV Contest

Postby MisterFurious » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:20 pm

Vlad G Pohnert wrote:oh, and who won, or was that posted as well and I just missed seeing it?

Vlad


Sorry, it wasn't. Wired Knight won.
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Re: Anime Expo 2010 Iron Chef AMV Contest

Postby Radical_Yue » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:26 pm

My review of the event...Don't worry, I won't be Hitler this time around :P

First off I'm really not a fan of the way the competitors were chosen in the first place...If you're chosen as the main competitor, who would you choose as you challenger? An editor than you know/believe has better skills? Or someone you've never heard of and hasn't edited in forever? The obvious choice would be someone you think you can beat. No one wants to lose in front of a large room of people.
While I don't agree with the process, it's your choice in how you want to run it.

The secret source was pretty obscure. When it was announced and during the 3 minute clip of it playing the general consensus was "What the heck is that?" I personally believe in using sources that the crowd can be excited about seeing. Something they'll want to wait for 3 hours to see in a video. While AMV contests are about the best of the best, Iron Chefs would not survive without the audience who shows up to watch the spectacle and we've all seen how they cheer whenever they see an anime they know/like on screen.
It's kinda like showing up to a concert to find out that you don't know any of the bands and aren't really interested in the genre of music.

Now as for the "success" of the competition...You do realize that you lost about 40% of the crowd within the first hour? And that they only came back when videos were being played... While QA is a great aspect to any AMV 101 panel it's NOT something that people come to ICs for. In case you didn't notice most of the questions were deep technical questions or basic "What's better, Vegas or Premiere?" Now, as for the tech questions...have you caught on to the fact that...when you answer this question the only one who understands the answer is the person asking and maybe 2% of the audience, if that. The rest of the attendees are forced to listen to droning tech nonsense for 5+ minutes.
While I kind of like the idea of "Hey, if you want to see what they're up to, feel free to walk around and take a look at their screens." Answering tech questions for long periods of time is NOT a way to keep the audience entertained. As for the more simplistic questions, you can rule all these out by passing around simple flyers that include information about basic editing programs such as Vegas, Premiere, etc...and the programs used for converting footage, IE the AMVAPP.

I was sitting next to a young fan that I've never met before and each and every time the technical rambling would begin, she'd slam her head down on the table. She didn't understand anything, she wasn't amused and neither was the other 97% of non-editing con goers in the room.
People that want to edit will show up for the AMV 101 panel, people who are looking for a fun show with lots of AMVs go to an Iron Chef.
I could see her frustration and I started to explain the basic concept of other Iron Chefs to her; non stop videos being played, games being played and audience involvement that keeps everyone entertained. She told me that it sounded like one of the most fun events ever :P
Never once has our ace Iron Editor host Ashykun stopped to answer pointless tech questions and generate the feeling of "I could leave right now, come back...and he'd still be talking -_-" <-That's an actual quote from another attendee that I've never met before.

The Iron Chef could have been muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch better. But I'm really looking forward to talking with Nic (StudioHybrid/KagatoAMV) because he seemed really open to changing things and making this into an excellent event. I'd also like to invite him and any other to the Iron Chef even we're putting on at Nan Desu Kan in Denver, Colorado. You'd be more than welcome to join us.

You get a sideways thumb for this event only due to Kit saving it with the AMVs.
Lets make next year a :up:

And in the meantime...
enjoy some videos from EXCELLENT Iron Chefs ;)


Editor Dansen!
The King of Germany!
Niotex and Kitler the Musical ;)
Koopiskeva's Proposal x3
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Re: Anime Expo 2010 Iron Chef AMV Contest

Postby Fall_Child42 » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:45 pm

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Re: Anime Expo 2010 Iron Chef AMV Contest

Postby Radical_Yue » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:48 pm

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Re: Anime Expo 2010 Iron Chef AMV Contest

Postby Kitsuner » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:29 pm

Honestly, I had a lot of fun up there. I love sharing fun videos, so I'll definitely help out if I make it back next year. A separate computer for showing videos would be a major improvement so the audience can stay occupied while the competitors' videos encode. Crowd participation always helps too (games, prizes, etc).
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Re: Anime Expo 2010 Iron Chef AMV Contest

Postby Pwolf » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:32 pm

MisterFurious wrote:lots of stuff


Would've been nice if Troy explained that earlier instead of replying to Mitch like he did. Talking to Mitch last night after making my post and him explaining to me more of the tech problems that were present, I think a lot of his frustrations (and others like myself) could've been helped if there was more explanation and willingness to accept help. We have a lot of editing, technical, and plenty of IC experience under our belts so we have higher expectations and knowledge about how to make it run and keep people interested. Mitch can come off as a jerk sometimes but he has high exceptions for these things (as do many of us) but is willing to share his knowledge if people will allow him to (which doesn't seem like is happening). I think if some people were more open to that and we as a knowledge base of experience felt safe about our opinions, the show will turn out even better next year.

But yea, 2 weeks isn't a lot of time to do EVERYTHING. I think the fact that the IC was even allowed to happen is a good step towards bringing AMVs back into the spotlight at AX. I hope next year the tech problems are worked out and the show is more enjoyable for the attendees.

PS: I heard you guys were using CS4 as the editing software... for the love of god, don't use CS4 :x It crashes more and exporting causes problems in of itself. if you can get better hardware, CS5 is very stable and fast. For a cheaper solution, 6.5 or 7 would probably be the best choice of software IMO.
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Re: Anime Expo 2010 Iron Chef AMV Contest

Postby Rider4Z » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:34 pm

I thought the whole event turned out very well especially for being pulled together relatively last minute. i was so surprised at how full the room got and even more so seeing how many people actually stayed for the full 3 hours. we're gonna need a bigger room next year. Brad, you were an excellent emcee and i could see how much fun you had doing it. how was the pepper? you and mr. stylus were great about answering questions and allowing interaction not just with the iron chefs but others who had suggestions to give as well. Kudos to Nic for all the "behind the scenes" work such as ripping footage and all the other stuff he didn't originally know brad was gonna give him to do :lol:

i am VERY flattered that i was asked to be an iron editor, thank you so much. this was my first AMV Iron Chef and i feel very proud to be considered "iron" :jester: hey yeah, we didn't get any hats....

Anyway, i gave Nic my flashdrive with most of the m&g playlist and didn't even think to put any of my own in there (aside from my crummy naruto vid) so i'll remember for next year |:>

Thanks for making it happen Brad and Troy! AX first AMV Iron Chef was totally awesome!
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Re: Anime Expo 2010 Iron Chef AMV Contest

Postby machina21 » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:37 pm

I hads me a pretty good time meself, although i've never seen an Iron Chef event so ignorance is bliss I guess. :awesome:
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Re: Anime Expo 2010 Iron Chef AMV Contest

Postby Radical_Yue » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:41 pm

Also, two weeks meant that you had enough time to buy the computers and not test anything? At all? Such as the projectors...or maybe rendering, etc?

Once again, not trying to be Hitler, but please, for the love of all that is good and holy...start taking advice from people that have gone to/worked on Iron Chefs.

Look at this thread, everyone who says this is their first Iron Chef says it was amazing. Everyone who has gone to Iron Chefs in the past says that it avoided disaster by the skin of it's teeth.
Who should you be listening to?
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Re: Anime Expo 2010 Iron Chef AMV Contest

Postby MisterFurious » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:42 pm

Radical_Yue wrote:My review of the event...Don't worry, I won't be Hitler this time around :P


Troy and I both edited Hitler vids this year, and he doesn't resemble you, so there is no need to worry about confusion. :P

Radical_Yue wrote:First off I'm really not a fan of the way the competitors were chosen in the first place...If you're chosen as the main competitor, who would you choose as you challenger? An editor than you know/believe has better skills? Or someone you've never heard of and hasn't edited in forever? The obvious choice would be someone you think you can beat. No one wants to lose in front of a large room of people.


I wanted to emulate the way the competition is done on Food Network, not because I'm married to the show, but because it's a little more exciting than just having two previously-selected editors face off against each other. It gives the challenger a little bit of an advantage, in fact, since, just as you say, they will want to choose someone they think they can beat. This puts the pressure on the Iron Chef to step up. However, it didn't work in this case, so your argument that the strategy gives the challenger an unfair advantage was rendered moot.

And if someone doesn't want to lose in front of a large room full of people, they don't have to participate. That's the nature of a competition. There has to be a winner and there has to be a loser. If you don't like losing, don't play. Simple as that.

BaitMaster has nothing to be ashamed of. He accepted the challenge, chose an Iron Chef he thought he could beat, then stepped up his game by making a video more than twice the length of Wired Knight's, with a long lip-synch sequence at the beginning. Very impressive.

Radical_Yue wrote:The secret source was pretty obscure. When it was announced and during the 3 minute clip of it playing the general consensus was "What the heck is that?" I personally believe in using sources that the crowd can be excited about seeing. Something they'll want to wait for 3 hours to see in a video. While AMV contests are about the best of the best, Iron Chefs would not survive without the audience who shows up to watch the spectacle and we've all seen how they cheer whenever they see an anime they know/like on screen.
It's kinda like showing up to a concert to find out that you don't know any of the bands and aren't really interested in the genre of music.


The editors knew five of the sources a week before the competition, and were allowed to bring any music they wanted. If the secret ingredient wasn't obscure, where would the challenge be? They all could have practically edited their videos at home and just re-created them at the contest.

Radical_Yue wrote:Now as for the "success" of the competition...You do realize that you lost about 40% of the crowd within the first hour? And that they only came back when videos were being played... While QA is a great aspect to any AMV 101 panel it's NOT something that people come to ICs for. In case you didn't notice most of the questions were deep technical questions or basic "What's better, Vegas or Premiere?" Now, as for the tech questions...have you caught on to the fact that...when you answer this question the only one who understands the answer is the person asking and maybe 2% of the audience, if that. The rest of the attendees are forced to listen to droning tech nonsense for 5+ minutes.
While I kind of like the idea of "Hey, if you want to see what they're up to, feel free to walk around and take a look at their screens." Answering tech questions for long periods of time is NOT a way to keep the audience entertained. As for the more simplistic questions, you can rule all these out by passing around simple flyers that include information about basic editing programs such as Vegas, Premiere, etc...and the programs used for converting footage, IE the AMVAPP.


I totally agree (although I am skeptical of your 40% figure - I kept seeing the same people in the same seats through the whole contest). We went too technical, but if you recall from my previous posts, up until you and Kit approached and offered to get us some AMV's to run, we had precious few, so we were forced to fill time with a technical discussion.

Radical_Yue wrote:I was sitting next to a young fan that I've never met before and each and every time the technical rambling would begin, she'd slam her head down on the table. She didn't understand anything, she wasn't amused and neither was the other 97% of non-editing con goers in the room.
People that want to edit will show up for the AMV 101 panel, people who are looking for a fun show with lots of AMVs go to an Iron Chef.
I could see her frustration and I started to explain the basic concept of other Iron Chefs to her; non stop videos being played, games being played and audience involvement that keeps everyone entertained. She told me that it sounded like one of the most fun events ever :P
Never once has our ace Iron Editor host Ashykun stopped to answer pointless tech questions and generate the feeling of "I could leave right now, come back...and he'd still be talking -_-" <-That's an actual quote from another attendee that I've never met before.


Once again, I agree. We got too technical. We'll have lots of AMV's to run, and the editors witll have desk lamps on their desks, so we can turn out the house lights to watch AMV's without bothering them. Moving on...

Radical_Yue wrote:The Iron Chef could have been muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch better.


Of course the event could have been better. It was the first year, and we only had two weeks to prepare. How much time have you had to prepare for Nan Desu Kan's Iron Chef contest? Would you have been able to pull it off in two weeks? How about if you had been trying to get Nan Desu Kan to schedule it, but they had been saying "no" for ten years? I think it's unfair to compare apples and oranges. As a convention, AX is horribly crippled by its own bureaucracy, so when presented with an opportunity to put on an Iron Chef competition there, we jumped at the chance to present it any way we could. Now that that's done, of course we want to do better.

Radical_Yue wrote:But I'm really looking forward to talking with Nic (StudioHybrid/KagatoAMV) because he seemed really open to changing things and making this into an excellent event. I'd also like to invite him and any other to the Iron Chef even we're putting on at Nan Desu Kan in Denver, Colorado. You'd be more than welcome to join us.


I am confused by this statement, since it seems to imply that I am not interested in improving this contest. I guess you haven't read my previous posts where I have invited everyone to make suggestions for next year, and I have promised to listen. You will note that I have tackled all of your points in this reply, and that I have even agreed with some of them. :shock:

I would love to come to Nan Desu Kan. I've been wanting to go for years, but I can't afford it. Does this make me a bad person?

Radical_Yue wrote:You get a sideways thumb for this event only due to Kit saving it with the AMVs.
Lets make next year a :up:


Heck, I'm glad we had an event at all!
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Re: Anime Expo 2010 Iron Chef AMV Contest

Postby MisterFurious » Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:06 pm

Radical_Yue wrote:Also, two weeks meant that you had enough time to buy the computers and not test anything? At all? Such as the projectors...or maybe rendering, etc?


We didn't buy the computers. Troy had to piece them together from old server machines in his studio. AX gave us no money whatsoever. We tested as best as we could without being at the venue.

Radical_Yue wrote:Once again, not trying to be Hitler, but please, for the love of all that is good and holy...start taking advice from people that have gone to/worked on Iron Chefs.


I thought that was what I was doing. Am I not being clear enough in asking for advice for next year, or should I be posting in another language? German, perhaps? :P

I'm sorry we didn't contact you, but we simply didn't have time to consult with anyone once AX gave us the opportunity for this year's contest, and we thought it was better to put up a contest, any contest, no matter how slap-dash, rather than let the opportunity slip. That was a judgment call, and guess what? It worked out in the end. Sue me.

Radical_Yue wrote:Look at this thread, everyone who says this is their first Iron Chef says it was amazing. Everyone who has gone to Iron Chefs in the past says that it avoided disaster by the skin of it's teeth.
Who should you be listening to?


I should be listening to the first-time attendees for this event, since it was, in fact, the first time at AX, and they will come back next year. However, now that we have time, we can listen to other, more experienced people for suggestions. Is that a problem, or would you prefer to dwell on the past and continue to rant about this year?
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