What happened to fun?

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Re: What happened to fun?

Postby Vivaldi » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:23 pm

Beowulf wrote:Yeah yeah yeah its just a hobby, its all fun, lighten up, wtfever.

Its very rare that a masterpiece just effortlessly flows through you like the wings of grace. Most of the time its the product of blood sweat and tears. Unless you're consummately brilliant, and your "I'm having fun" is equivalent to the normal world's Mona Lisa, then stop whining and put the time in.

/grumpy.

I think the point is the relative absurdity of demanding a masterpiece or "Mona Lisa" level of commitment from what is indubitably a hobbyist community. Naturally there are those who find fulfillment in that level of artistic achievement, but it's obviously not the communities natural equipoise. Saying it ought to be is exactly what I was referring to in my earlier post. :book:

LittleAtari wrote:*snip


Indeed, reaching that threshold of, oh I don't know—"Artistic maturity"— can seemingly cause a sort of paralysis. Incremental action is just common developmental sense, but a sort of idealism seems to prevent it.
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Re: What happened to fun?

Postby Knowname » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:51 pm

Where has the fun gone? for me it's gone nowhere... I may be a little older, but it's still there where I left it. I think.

As far as the Tube/ casual vidder philosophy goes. It is true. Whether you make vids just to make vids or you make vids as artistic impression you usually progress at about the same progression. I've always been a little more in the former camp but that's just cuz I hate to figure things out lol. Most do agree, they're best ideas come when they are drunk or just plain annebriated say on a long road trip :x personally I don't drink lol but. I've always suggested, and this is one way to do it, to just MAKE something. There's no better experience than the experience you get from just doing. Then there's the other side of the coin, some ppl simply like to figure things out! They read encyclopedia articles like the AVTech guide or research elsewhere and end up in the SAME position! Say after 5 or 6 months the release something. Either way, after 5 or 6 months, both ppl (if equally motivated) will end up in the same place!

All this arguing is simply taking away from the fun! Go, have fun :)
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Re: What happened to fun?

Postby gotegenks » Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:30 pm

wait, isn't the Org's reputation built on "srs business"? I still think it's fun, but you can't complain about srs business here because that's why a lot of us come here, or it's why i came here at least.
I'm not anti-youtube, but most of the editors there and their circles are all about mindless fun, and i dont mean that in a bad way. It sounds like mindless fun is what you want the Org to be "again" which can be fun, but for srs business, it's a-m-v.org for me, and that's what makes the Org more "fun" to me, otherwise i'd just get bored.
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Re: What happened to fun?

Postby 8bit_samurai » Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:59 pm

Dr.Dinosaur wrote:If-if you are lookin through the org forums, we're here, we're being silly, we got Inthesto, Otohiko, I'm Dr.Dinosaur
It's been awhile since I seen a topic made by you or any of those mentioned, actually. It's quite a shame too, really, since those turned out to be quite interesting.

Dr.Dinosaur wrote:I like to have a good time and on Saturday mornings I used to like to get a big, fat bowl of cereal and watch cartoons, motherfucker
I used to to the same too, actually. Good times indeed. Now that Cartoon Network has been changed, I haven't been able to do so. I know [adult swim] streams some of there stuff, but it ain't quite the same.

Dr.Dinosaur wrote: when I made AMVs I took those cartoons I liked and made somethin' I liked and if that-- if you can't relate to these videos you're taking this shit too serious. It's AMVs, man, it's-it's fn' fun.
Please continue to do so. You and the rest of CDVV are some of the few I actually look forward to new releases.

I don't know about others, but nowadays I edit whenever I have nothing else to do or if I feel like procrastinating on something else. Editing itself may not be fun for me, but I like to see the outcome of it, especially if it turns out how I want it. The forums, on the other hand, is actually one of the first forums I joined. It may not be as fun as before, but I think it's from becoming jaded over the last couple years. It appears there is still fun here and there, I guess it just depends on who is having the "fun."
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Re: What happened to fun?

Postby Brad » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:29 pm

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Re: What happened to fun?

Postby Megamom » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:07 pm

Kristyrat wrote:The new people stole it :x


:up:
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Re: What happened to fun?

Postby Athena » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:20 pm

USA up. ALG down.

USA USA USA :bzz: :bzz2: :bzz: :bzz2: :bzz: :bzz2: :bzz: :bzz2: :bzz: :bzz2:
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Re: What happened to fun?

Postby Megamom » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:37 pm

:bzz: Donovan :bzz2:

This is fun! :P
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Re: What happened to fun?

Postby Fall_Child42 » Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:38 am

The idea that once you get better at something, or that you have been doing something for a long time means you aren't allowed to have fun anymore seems faulty to me. You should be able to have fun alongside challenging work. Who says DiVinci didn't have fun painting the Mona Lisa? So a drive for quality (whatever that is) does not automatically make things unfun.


What about not creating videos but just watching them?

I know I've found myself every so often getting hung up on some small insignificant flaw that I miss the fact that the video is actually really enjoyable. More recently I've been able to shift my mindset so I can simply watch something and enjoy it like I used to despite it's technical flaws. Kitsuner was instrumental in allowing me to do this. so thanks Kit!
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Re: What happened to fun?

Postby Koopiskeva » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:48 pm

So basically..

You and Kit have something going on under the table.. :aimkissyface:
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Re: What happened to fun?

Postby Kai Stromler » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:20 pm

Dr.Dinosaur wrote:The idea that once you get better at something, or that you have been doing something for a long time means you aren't allowed to have fun anymore seems faulty to me. You should be able to have fun alongside challenging work. Who says DiVinci didn't have fun painting the Mona Lisa? So a drive for quality (whatever that is) does not automatically make things unfun.


This is true, but at least for me, there's a semi-causal relationship, mostly based on time. I wrote up a post on this yesterday but deleted it because, well, screw it. Fortunately I still have the numbers around.

In a sample space of 85 videos that I could establish that the time-to-completion figures were comparable for, 51 got marked as more "fun" than "not fun" to work on, with 34 being the reverse. There was a strong relationship between the average time to completion and whether a video was fun or not:

"fun" videos: 15.55 hours
"not fun" videos: 28.43 hours

There was also a weaker relationship between ratio of the amount of work done before/outside of editing (I cut clips rather than marking in/out on whole episodes/VOBs) to edit time and whether a project was "fun" or not. However, not only is the difference in the averages smaller, the numbers themselves are not completely reliable, because I don't track production time by stage and was going on memory:

"fun" videos: 3.88:1
"not fun" videos: 5.26:1

I also found a weak relationship between editor used and whether a video was "fun" to work on or not. 62% (39/61) of videos in this sample space edited with Dazzle MovieStar or Virtual Dub, which are essentially linear editing environments, came out as "fun". This has dropped to 55% (12/22) after moving to Magix. This is probably a side-effect of time committed -- having a NLE and more control allows you to spend more time getting things exactly right -- and is in any case the smallest difference of the three noted here. Also, I have very low confidence in a sample space of only 22 projects.


How these numbers relate to the original post is this: for most people, the desire to improve their videos results in more time committed, and time is the fun killer. If you want to improve, but still have fun, be a grind and track process time, then before your next project, look back and think about what you could have done to cut down on time committed. My average time to completion is still pretty much where it was in 2001 and 2002, largely because I take active measures to force production time down. If AMV gets too time-onerous, I stop doing it, and get frustrated because ideas are sitting around not getting turned into videos. To keep having fun, you must work hard to avoid working hard.

Maybe this makes sense, maybe not; maybe it's totally useless for people who approach their production in other ways. The numbers remain what they are.

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Re: What happened to fun?

Postby CodeZTM » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:35 pm

Dr.Dinosaur wrote:
I know I've found myself every so often getting hung up on some small insignificant flaw that I miss the fact that the video is actually really enjoyable. More recently I've been able to shift my mindset so I can simply watch something and enjoy it like I used to despite it's technical flaws. Kitsuner was instrumental in allowing me to do this. so thanks Kit!


Even though I'm not as old around here as some of the dinosaurs, I really suffered from that problem for a year or two and pretty much "quit" editing in 2008 and took a vacation because of it. Because everything I made had a "flaw", and I didn't want to release anything less than perfect. But in 2009, I lightened up after reading some post from somebody saying that this was a fun hobby, and we shouldn't be hung up on every technical detail [I think it was CracktheSky], and I started editing videos I wanted to make, and not getting hung up on every single detail, but still attempting to make improvements with each video in a subtle way.

So yeah, everybody needs to calm down a tad and just LET IT RIP. :bzz: :bzz:
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Re: What happened to fun?

Postby Knowname » Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:30 pm

Kai Stromler wrote:I also found a weak relationship between editor used and whether a video was "fun" to work on or not. 62% (39/61) of videos in this sample space edited with Dazzle MovieStar or Virtual Dub, which are essentially linear editing environments, came out as "fun". This has dropped to 55% (12/22) after moving to Magix.

lol I'd expect this to be the other way around! But I can say 1 out of 1 video (my first) that I made in VDub was among the funnest times I had in this hobby ever :) I would further correlate your numbers based on time though as it's a grade of enthusiasm that most likely makes things fun... therefor your analog numbers most probably are somewhat skued... but the fact remains, working on an analog editor is REALLY underrated lol. Given the enthusiasm it's really more fun than it seems. Something I'd NEVER go back to though... but it's fun ^_^


Kai Stromler wrote:How these numbers relate to the original post is this: for most people, the desire to improve their videos results in more time committed, and time is the fun killer. If you want to improve, but still have fun, be a grind and track process time, then before your next project, look back and think about what you could have done to cut down on time committed. My average time to completion is still pretty much where it was in 2001 and 2002, largely because I take active measures to force production time down. If AMV gets too time-onerous, I stop doing it, and get frustrated because ideas are sitting around not getting turned into videos. To keep having fun, you must work hard to avoid working hard.

Maybe this makes sense, maybe not; maybe it's totally useless for people who approach their production in other ways. The numbers remain what they are.

--K


Time being an element destroying fun IN PRODUCTION may be true to many ppl (to some it is not... sometimes you may like to take your time!!) but certainly not true to the high you get in POST production. Who doesn't like to here the audience CHEER for your video?? Even if that's never happened to you you have to imagine (like I do :|) that it'd be SUBLIME. Makes all the time you took TOTALLY worth it!! Also trying to RUSH your work REALLY doesn't work for me (I would rather tone down my effort than figure out how to do the same thing over less time...). I don't know, maybe some like to do that, but I wouldn't think I'd find it enjoyable at all. You can see the videos where it seems I only put 80% effort in just to get it done 80% quicker lol. most of my catalog is made up of that in fact heheheh.
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Re: What happened to fun?

Postby Knowname » Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:41 pm

Kai Stromler wrote:To keep having fun, you must work hard to avoid working hard.


This should be quoted though lol as my motto for mediocre videos (though I still love 60-70% of them... my ideas are really good ^_^).
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Re: What happened to fun?

Postby Megamom » Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:56 pm

Mmm... I never leave the AMVs for not doing things perfectly... in this world nothing is perfect :| ....all my AMVs have imperfections (eg on my Noise AMV the credits are bad) the imperfections in my AMVs are discovered in the comments of others editors... and the truth I do not care, because is all part of fun, when other editors discover your mistakes is fun ... because you can improve your AMVs!

For me, everything is fun... from the editing process once to the comments... everything is fun! But some new editors take this "hobby" like a bloody business, this is wrong.... enjoyed the AMVs please! :D
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