So You Want To Be A *GOOD* Anime Music Video Editor?

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Re: So You Want To Be A *GOOD* Anime Music Video Editor?

Postby Amatuer » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:02 pm

Great tip, at least I can improve when I have read it. But what about a taste for music
I mostly tend to judge good amv by their music since I'm not used to country or R&B or Hiphop etc.
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Re: So You Want To Be A *GOOD* Anime Music Video Editor?

Postby Emotive » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:41 pm

Amatuer wrote:But what about a taste for music
If me and Kevmaster like it, it's good.
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Re: So You Want To Be A *GOOD* Anime Music Video Editor?

Postby Kariudo » Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:03 pm

Amatuer wrote:I mostly tend to judge good amv by their music since I'm not used to country or R&B or Hiphop etc.


This makes me sad, the type of music should have nothing to do with how an amv is judged. Country song X isn't any better at getting the mood across than pop song Y. That said, the different genres of music tend to lend themselves better to particular genres of AMVs (If you can make a good romance video using <insert metal subgenre here> then you win at AMVs.) The music serves as a base for the mood and overall feel of the amv.
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Re: So You Want To Be A *GOOD* Anime Music Video Editor?

Postby Shatterd » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:39 pm

Thxs for the upload help i read the whole thing and it was very nice.
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Re: So You Want To Be A *GOOD* Anime Music Video Editor?

Postby CodeZTM » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:41 pm

Kariudo wrote:
Amatuer wrote:I mostly tend to judge good amv by their music since I'm not used to country or R&B or Hiphop etc.


This makes me sad, the type of music should have nothing to do with how an amv is judged. Country song X isn't any better at getting the mood across than pop song Y. That said, the different genres of music tend to lend themselves better to particular genres of AMVs (If you can make a good romance video using <insert metal subgenre here> then you win at AMVs.) The music serves as a base for the mood and overall feel of the amv.


I agree. It's a good thing to watch all kinds of AMV's of all kinds of genres of music. You never know, you might start liking a new genre. I used to never like anything R&B, but after seeing several videos like Kysiffur's "Number ONe", I started to LOVE the genre.
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Re: So You Want To Be A *GOOD* Anime Music Video Editor?

Postby KarlDV » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:58 am

Wow that is one bad-ass guide the OP provided. The one thing I need tho is motivation cause gathering several videos to edit is no easy task and then I need to sharpen my video editing skills cause I am rusty in that area as well... agrrr sounds like work but I love the final product
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Re: So You Want To Be A *GOOD* Anime Music Video Editor?

Postby godix » Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:29 pm

I ran into something that seemed like exactly the type of thing I hoped would get discussed in this thread. So I'll just quote it here. I may write my own opinions on crossfades/hard cuts later but for now I'll just copy & paste what LittleAtari wrote here. If Atari doesn't like that I'm quoting it, well, she can whine at a mod until they delete it or something.

LittleAtari wrote:Fades themselves are not a bad. It's how you use the fades. There are a lot of editors who most of their transitions are fades. Usually, when this is done, it actually makes the editing weaker without the editor realizing it.

Hard cuts come off as a lot more powerful because you're cutting directly from one shot to the next. When you think about it, hard cuts are more traditional. Movies, music videos, etc, mostly use hard cuts.

Fades come off as more organic and softer because you're essentially getting a preview of the next shot, making your video somewhat predictable. Because of this softness that fades give, they can be used more often in slower videos, usually a romance or drama. Still, you shouldn't make it your made transition in those types of videos because you may end up undermining any build up that a hard cut can help you make. Sometimes, we need a quick switch to the next scene.

In the end, a fade is an overlay with an opacity change. It really isnt all that amusing to see two shots at the same time on top of each a lot. When used improperly, fades can make your video predictable and make scenes have less of an impact.
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Re: So You Want To Be A *GOOD* Anime Music Video Editor?

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:21 pm

godix wrote:I ran into something that seemed like exactly the type of thing I hoped would get discussed in this thread. So I'll just quote it here. I may write my own opinions on crossfades/hard cuts later but for now I'll just copy & paste what LittleAtari wrote here. If Atari doesn't like that I'm quoting it, well, she can whine at a mod until they delete it or something.

LittleAtari wrote:Fades themselves are not a bad. It's how you use the fades. There are a lot of editors who most of their transitions are fades. Usually, when this is done, it actually makes the editing weaker without the editor realizing it.

Hard cuts come off as a lot more powerful because you're cutting directly from one shot to the next. When you think about it, hard cuts are more traditional. Movies, music videos, etc, mostly use hard cuts.

Fades come off as more organic and softer because you're essentially getting a preview of the next shot, making your video somewhat predictable. Because of this softness that fades give, they can be used more often in slower videos, usually a romance or drama. Still, you shouldn't make it your made transition in those types of videos because you may end up undermining any build up that a hard cut can help you make. Sometimes, we need a quick switch to the next scene.

In the end, a fade is an overlay with an opacity change. It really isnt all that amusing to see two shots at the same time on top of each a lot. When used improperly, fades can make your video predictable and make scenes have less of an impact.

That said, a 2-4 frame fade on a long note is more appropriate than an abrupt transition in most cases.
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Re: So You Want To Be A *GOOD* Anime Music Video Editor?

Postby mirkosp » Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:46 pm

BasharOfTheAges wrote:That said, a 2-4 frame fade on a long note is more appropriate than an abrupt transition in most cases.

It could be possible to make the hard cut start with a higher luma+blur that get back to the normal luma level and no blur in those few frames... something along those lines tends to work just as well in quite a few cases.
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Re: So You Want To Be A *GOOD* Anime Music Video Editor?

Postby qyll » Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:56 pm

Since we're on the subject of fades, I'll throw in my 2 cents.

When I edit, I see fades as the dandelions in my AMV garden. They are boring. They slow the pace of my AMV and lend them a sluggish tempo that I definitely do not want if I'm making an upbeat or action AMV. Hell, even in sentimental or drama AMVs, I try not to spam fades too often. Why do so many new editors find sanctuary in fades? I can venture a guess: because these editors are afraid that they won’t be understood. By bridging two scenes together, they feel that the viewer will appreciate the smooth transition and have more time to digest it. Furthermore, with fades, they feel that they can transition over a set time, so they never really needed to worry about where to start or end the fade that much. That’s a rather wishy-washy style of editing.

Watch some professional music videos. Like LittleAtari said, few fade dandelions grow there. Everything is constructed with cuts and cuts and cuts. They make the video look edgier and more importantly, they keep the viewer’s attention for longer. It’s actually quite a challenge to find a fade in a professional music video. Not so in AMVs. Not to say that every AMV needs to have only straight cuts all the time. After all, professional music videos do not share the exact same set of editing principles as AMVs; but they are damned close.
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Re: So You Want To Be A *GOOD* Anime Music Video Editor?

Postby qyll » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:13 pm

To further the discussion, I'll write a bit more on how to make cuts:

Take a look at a few professional music videos. Whichever ones you like. Watch where the editor makes the cuts. Not exactly on beat every time, but not chaotic either. The cut occurs where you wouldn’t expect it but looks good enough to not be random. I can generalize because this type of kinetic editing is so pervasive in the music video industry. By making cuts at appropriate but unexpected times, the viewer pays attention to video not knowing what comes next and still gets a sense that the video was well edited. Randomness vs. expectedness comes in degrees. Some videos follow a strict cut-on-the-beat law, or perhaps they contain very few cuts to begin with. This is because the editor wants the viewer to focus on the footage itself without having to worry about the editing getting in the way. A good example of this is the music video Single Ladies by Beyonce. The entire focus of the video is the three dancers. The entire video uses 33 cuts with 10 of them used over 5 seconds from 2:47 – 2:52. Other music videos spam cuts all over the place. And that shifts the focus of the video to the editing. Watch the music video for Good Girls Go Bad by Cobra Starship. It’s a music video of people dancing and singing at a nightclub. Not very exciting, is it? Which is why the editing must stand out.

The whole point of telling you that was to make you realize that the footage has as much input in the cut location as the music. When I edit, I try to follow these rules: Long cuts (> 2 seconds) of static (boring, no action) footage is a no-no. Short cuts (< .5 seconds) of dynamic (lots of action) footage will lead to visual clutter, and the viewer can no longer follow the video. Of course, these principles depend entirely on the audio context. And there will always be exceptions to these rules. Use your own judgment.

Watch a lot and edit a lot. Watch good AMVs, but realize these are still edited by amateurs. Then go and watch some professional music videos. After that, open up your favorite editing suite and start editing. Try to make an AMV with as few fades as you can manage. Have the willpower to make the straight cut, even if you think it looks jumpy. Maybe it will, maybe it won’t. Watching is different from editing. Fades I thought looked great in the timeline now irk the shit out of me when I watch them.
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Re: So You Want To Be A *GOOD* Anime Music Video Editor?

Postby Kariudo » Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:56 pm

qyll wrote:Watch some professional music videos. Like LittleAtari said, few fade dandelions grow there. Everything is constructed with cuts and cuts and cuts. They make the video look edgier and more importantly, they keep the viewer’s attention for longer. It’s actually quite a challenge to find a fade in a professional music video. Not so in AMVs. Not to say that every AMV needs to have only straight cuts all the time. After all, professional music videos do not share the exact same set of editing principles as AMVs; but they are damned close.

You'll also notice that professional music videos tend to be extremely random (fault of the director,) seem to try to achieve some Picasso-esque interpretation of the song (again, fault of the director,) and have cuts and flashes randomly strewn about (fault of the editor.) It completely destroys the flow and can make a music video as hard to watch as much as the director's "vision" can.

This is why I can't stand to watch 95% of "professional" music videos anymore.

Like with most things, there is a happy medium between hard cuts and fades. Saying that you should only (or very predominantly) use hard cuts is as bad as saying you should only use fades. Knowing where and when to use transitions (be they hard cuts, fades, or something else,) is an art that takes practice to master. When done properly, in conjunction with good scene selection, you create flow...which is among the more enjoyable aspects of music videos in general (for me) and something I find extremely lacking in most professional music videos.

In a music video, your music is the base for everything. Music sets the mood and pace for your video (Gary Jules' remake of Mad World is not going to have a decent fast, flashy, action-oriented music video no matter how hard you try.) The video is [primarily] there to express an interpretation of the music, and exaggerates the mood of the music (and can add in other emotions, but these additions are playing second fiddle to the music.) Transitions, together with video, exaggerate the pace of the music and help create flow, but they also carry with them some feeling. If the feeling and pace of your video and transitions fights the feeling and mood of the music too much, it's going to be a train-wreck.

tl;dr version:
hard cuts are appropriate some times
fades are appropriate some times
no single transition is a magic bullet
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Re: So You Want To Be A *GOOD* Anime Music Video Editor?

Postby mirkosp » Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:57 pm

Kariudo wrote:no single transition is a magic bullet

You underestimate the star wipe. :nose:
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Re: So You Want To Be A *GOOD* Anime Music Video Editor?

Postby godix » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:39 pm

While crossfades aren't abused as much in 'real' videos as they are in AMVs, part of that is just that real videos have more control over the source. Directors create their own footage, so they can do things like cut on shapes or motion which AMV editors often can not do unless our source already has that type of thing in it.

Crossfades can help build a connection between scenes. Lets say that I want to show a character is strong and unyielding. I decide to be a pretentious bastard about it and use symbolism. So I cut from a shot of the character to a shot of a mountain. With a hard cut, it's an abrupt change and the viewers are going 'WTF is up with the mountain? This has nothing to do with the previous scene'. A crossfade comes off more unifying and gives an usually sub-conscious hint that the character and the mountain are related.

They can also help unify scenes that are vastly different. Say I got a scene that's during the day with a bright blue sky behind him then my next scene is at night in a burning building where there's reds everywhere. Hard cutting between the two is rather harsh and abrupt, a mild shock to the viewers. If I don't want the viewers to be shocked up the contrast, a crossfade would serve to soften the transition so it isn't a sudden shift from blues to reds, it's a more gradual shift.

Crossfades are also good for maintaining a steady flow. One scene dissolves into another and just carries the viewer with it. There's no abrupt shifts that can snap the viewer out of the flow. As Atari said, crossfades are more organic and softer. Sometimes that's exactly what you want.

On the other hand, hard cuts serve their purpose too. Crossfades do tend to make a video appear slower paced and more melancholy. If you're doing an action or dance or upbeat video, the last thing you want is slower paced and melancholy. Also, if scenes are carefully chosen, a hard cut doesn't have to be abrupt and a shock to the viewer either. Sometimes the scenes you'd need to do good hard cuts just don't exist though.

Where this can come in really useful is to highlight certain parts of the song. Say a song that starts off slow and suddenly shifts to hard and fast. Crossfading in the slow part will lull the audience into the flow, then a sudden switch to hard cuts between contrasting scenes serves as shock enough without the need for solid white flashes or other shit.
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Re: So You Want To Be A *GOOD* Anime Music Video Editor?

Postby NevilleLeck » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:46 am

a very good post ,thanks :D
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