AMV Salad 3: next stop - NekoCon 12...

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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Gaelstrom » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:51 pm

So.. is this version just a re-encode of the older version for placeholder purposes? None of the changes I requested have been done, and now there's a fade on the Windows 98 clip that simply shouldn't be there. The insta-jump into the Intel logo beautifully simulated the cut-off effect your test patterns did and enhanced it. I acknowledged that it worked far better than I thought it would, and now that it's a commercial, the text at the beginning, which I've tried expressing that it doesn't work in every way besides saying now that it does not work, should be removed. So please please remove that fade and do the other changes, they won't take more than 5 minutes.

Even if you can't switch it out at Otakon, let's at least prep for the distinct possibility that you can, and do some quick but very poignant changes until then.

Please, Deuce, what's going on? Why won't you do the changes?
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Deuce Loosely » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:17 pm

Hey...relax, man. Everything will be cool. I'm just getting the download out there so people will stop screaming for it. Your request for changes have been duly noted and will take effect the same time I switch out krvabo's video streams for those mistimed clips. Just breathe, dude... ;)
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Gaelstrom » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:24 am

Thank you. My frustration was mounting a bit. You realize that that was the first time you acknowledged any of my ideas or requests for a pretty long time? You can understand if it was a bit disconcerting. Since I haven't worked with you before I didn't know how to take the fact that you rarely returned e-mails and seemed to bypass our critiques much of the time, so my apologies, but I also don't believe my reaction was unwarranted considering the lack of communication. I know thanks to AMVS2 that your projects can be pretty epic, I just didn't understand why AMVS3's iterations feel like rough drafts on the cut timing. To be honest I know how much you hate credits, but there are even some things I think that could help if you arranged certain clips next to others, that way you maintain a general tone of comedy instead of ups and downs as the current incarnation seems to have. I'm just used to working with teams and all of us having input, so it was making me nervous that you seemed to be ignoring me. I'm sorry.
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby InspZenigata » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:57 pm

9. "Annoying" gained more favorable response and laughs the longer it went on, mainly because Linkin Park kept coming up on the list.

lol I didn't actually notice that.

Awww... I thought "I'm on a Boat" would have gotten some reaction. That makes me sad :( Oh well. On to the next round of clips to be made.
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Deuce Loosely » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:26 pm

Don't fet if yours was a clip that didn't get better reaction. Each convention audience is different. I've been surprised when the clips that were a hit with one con got a mediocre-at-best reaction at the next.

Anyway, the first 'org review from Code:

First of all : The first 2:41 of the AMV made ZERO sense to me. zero. O-o And I like to think of myself as eccentric enough to understand a lot of crazy stuff. O_o

As with all of these videos, many were funny while others were just awful.

Individual Tracks I Liked/Wanted To Comment On:

Haven't we heard the "they're coming to take me away" enough already?
The Now 63 just about made me wet my pants from laughing. LOL. :lol:
MAC VS PC was fun.
Kill whoever is holding the phone = Best Death Note one in the project
The adult swim references were really neat. =D
Guitar Hero World Tour was fun. =D
Head On commercials = epic.
Death Note "FUCKING JUMP" was hilarious! =D
Porno Commentary Stand Up Comedy = Hilarious
Beck Family Guy = Best Track in the entire video. I nearly choked from laughing.
I think the Azumanga German part was out of sync. O-o
Power Rangers Excel Saga = Fun.
Men's Warehouse = totally unexpected, was hoping for something funnier with the Fruits Basket set up.
DBZ Opera = Amusing.
And as usual, the credits were ridiculously long. O-o

Overall, I'd say it was the weakest of all the Salads, but still amusing nonetheless. :up:

Yup...got more work to do. Such is the hazard of working on a deadline... :?
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Gaelstrom » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:44 pm

Aaaactually, I didn't find the boat one 'lol' funny because I was bobbin' my head with it since it was so awesome :D The lyrics were lost on me the first time because of the synth-style voice. Second time was when I actually heard the lyrics and realized it was a great choice (even not having seen Gurren Lagann yet). I think you got that head bob effect instead, same with Thundercatlord's Excel one that was put right in front of my DBZ one. When I saw it when it was first put in I was like "Er... deuce might wanna move that, the DBZ one doesn't really deserve a title of 'epic ending' after that Excel awesomeness." Just when you start gettin' into the music it gets cut off and it was MY clip that came up and even I was like 'hey, go back that was cool!" Hehe, I've half a mind to ask thundercatlord to have it removed so he can make it into a full AMV and submit it for the contest next year.

And first thing I do this year is to try and match the rest of you by making a production tag that didn't take an hour on the night everything was due... The Gundam Wing one was meant to be my tag, then at the last minute I realized 'Wha- ah son of a bitch, I just made another clip by accident!'

Edit:
Haha, this is why I'd take critique over commentary anyday ^^ 'Expected more from a fruits basket reference' ....liiiiike whaaaat...?? Would totally love to know what that means. ...and I figured people would say that 'they're coming to take me away' is overplayed. It was in both previous ones.

Second Edit:
What do you guys think, would it be too fast if the Fruits Wearhouse clip were to start when she falls against them and they puff into animals? This way there is no initial dialogue to make it as unexpected when Zimmer's voice is the first you hear. Could you guys check if that feels like it sets it up better for you or should we leave it the way it is? Obviously it'll be unexpected, but I think the 'expecting funnier' is because the setup was so long. Anyone agree? Deuce, you saw it at AMA, so you can tell better if the reaction was confused laughter or not.
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Gaelstrom » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:18 pm

Hey Deuce I had a couple thoughts on Code's comments for potential improvements, please read and let me know what you think:

Instead of the beginning being voiced over you should do the news ticker like I mentioned originally, if anything at all. I don't believe it works currently, because you have one thing on screen, then a random voice-over talking as if you enter mid conversation about something unrelated, which suddenly and inexplicably turns into something about a new show, then the announcement comes in and none of it works together. I believe that's a major part of why Code said he was confused. The reason I suggested the ticker was because it's something everyone knows, an established TV fact that ticker information is separate from what's on screen above it, so you can put whatever you want on it and nobody will be confused. You already have a visual (which I think the green graphic needs a quick redoing) so the ticker gives comedy without uncertainty as to what you're looking at, maybe you could steal Adult Swim's 'up next' screen or something to use somehow?

The Reservoire Dogs clip is more of an amusing commentary on the anime than funny, so the ticker can build the mood with increasingly random humor for those who like that stuff, but they also don't HAVE to read it. I gave some ideas for ticker stuff before, but I have more, and I'm sure whoever on the project still looks at this board will have ideas too ^^ I believe it will be a decent humor builder and be very cheap time-wise to do.

Another issue to look at, I believe, is that there are several zones where the clips don't have a massive punchline, but are more commentary clips like Reservoire Dogs, the Death one, the Lincoln commercial, and my Men's Wearhouse one, and so over those times the audience expects punchy comedy and can be left a bit disoriented or let down. With this in mind, the ones that didn't get a tremendous reaction at AMA could be sandwiched between ones that did, while others like Gunther and, unfortunately 'they're coming to take me away,' get removed this time around. I'm forced to agree with Code, as my initial reaction to that was 'this again...?' and waited for it to finish. When it went on longer than the previous Salads' versions, it was almost a double hit to the mood I'm sorry to say.

I believe looking at this stuff could help in dealing with the issues Code tried to voice. Instead of the Match.com commercial starting things off, switching it with the Death clip could really help a lot I think. If you think about it, you're starting with a commercial instead of something with which to interrupt with commercials, so it's very slightly disorienting. It took me a while to figure out how he may have been confused, but I think this is along the right lines. Another thing is to try and get the credits a bit faster, but I can't think of an effective way just yet. This doesn't need to be over 20 minutes.
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby CodeZTM » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:20 pm

Allow me to give a more in depth review here over each track. I hope this helps everyone..

00:00-1:05: I have no clue what's going on here.. What is this trying to parody? I think that perhaps if you were to cut this entire segment and starting with the law and order thing would make it a TON better.

1:06-1:28: Excellent work here! =D

1:29-1:51: Why is this match.com? Wouldn't it be better just to make it a funny family guy clip and call it a day? I see no connection between family guy and match.com or the anime.
(Shouldn't there be the rainbow thing between these?)

1:51 - 2:30 - Can we get some prettier fonts on this? Would make it more appealing. Also, the red behind the kung fu panda is really distracting. Can we photoshop or paint.net that out and just have the letters?

2:31 - 2:41 - I'm sure this is an inside joke, but I don't get it.... I know it's trying to parody adult swim, but I have no clue where the pic is from.

2:42 - 3:15 - I think this could be cut in half and have more impact. ABout from the middle to the end...

3:16 - 3:29 - Hilarous, don't change a thing! =D

3:30 - 3:45 - Wasn't really all that funny... But then again, I've never seen the anime.... O-o

3:46 - 4:13 - I'm not sure how it goes from Katamari commercia to pucca to full metal alchemist... There's no tying between then other than just "destroying everything". Best bet would be to either stick with the katamari joke or cut it and pucca and stick with full metal alchemist.

4:14 - 4:43 - Eh. It was cute.. Would have gone for better scenes here and there, but eh..

4:44 - 4:50 - Cute, but there needs to be a clear indicator that you were going to commercial break... O_o

4:51 - 5:28 - Cute, but the premier pro box looked bad.. I'd paint.net or photoshop just the logo. The box looks really tacky...

5:29 - 5:39 - LOVE IT! =D

5:40 - 5:57 - Excellent work on this one. =D

5:58 - 6:13 - WONDERFUL!

6:14-6:19 : EXCELLENT

6:20 - 6:29 - I don't get it... At all. O-o

6:30 - 6:55 for the love of all that is salad, please cut it....

6:56 - 7:11 : excellent work on transferring to commericals.

7:12 - 8:45 I love it. =D

8:46 - : 9:05 Excellent work,

9:06 - : Not funny in all honesty... O-o

9:13 - LOVED IT! =D

9:19 - Eh... It's ok.

9:27 - I don't get it... O-o Definitly too long for sure...

9:55 : Wrong anime choice...

10:04 - Cute, needs more black between it and the commerical logo.

10:08 : good work on the commerical, perhaps some guitar hero footage from gameplay

10:46 : Again, BEAUTIFUL

10:55 - Very cute. :D

11: 26: Again, excellent, but perhaps put this one elsewhere since you just had a Big O secne

11:42 - Very nice, just like a real adult swim commercial

12:00 - EXCELLENT!

12:25: I dont get... I'm sure those that have seen the anime get it, but I see Haurhi with this one.

12:45: BEAUTIFUL! STICK WITH IT!

13:13 - Cute.

13:18L: LOVE IT!

13:28 - BeSt track in show

13:37: Jsut don't quite like it.

13:40 - Cute, but it's been done....

14:09: Excellent work

14:43: Off sync for sure... O-o

15:15: Excellent work on this! =D

15:47: I love it. =D

16:10 : BEAUTIFUL!

16:21 Cute. But I don't get the first part of it. O_o With the flipping off.

17:10 - Excellent way to end the show

-good grief those credits are LONG. get me a word document or notepad with all the info, the video clips used during them as well as the law and order theme and I'll do them for you and attempt to get them down on time... That is if there's enough time to do it.

Also, I'm definitly going to have to get involved in AMV Salad 4, that's for sure. =D

Hope all that helps. =D
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby InspZenigata » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:15 pm

9:27 - I don't get it... O-o Definitly too long for sure...


...you're kidding right? :| "I'm on a Boat" with footage of "Team Dai Gurren" on a giant boat. It's 30 seconds.

Unless you've never ever heard of "I'm on a Boat" from The Lonely Island, not really sure what's wrong with it.


11: 26: Again, excellent, but perhaps put this one elsewhere since you just had a Big O secne
^This. It's been bugging me for a while. I thought I posted about it, but maybe the post didn't go through.

14:43: Off sync for sure... O-o
^ I agree. It's horrendously out of synch.
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby skyedream75 » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:38 pm

Code wrote:5:58 - 6:13 - WONDERFUL!


Yaaay!! Someone likes mine! x3
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Gaelstrom » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:44 pm

Thanks very much for getting more specific with your input, Code. It's sincerely appreciated.

I agree, the beginning should be cut like Code says in favor of the Law and Order start. Right now, it's confusing and slow and the clip is too long. Unless it gets a massive overhaul, it's detrimental in its current form. The Reservoire Dogs is just too slow and too niche a reference to be widely amusing.

I also agree, Match.com is unnecessary and should go. Clip's its own thing.

Krvabo wants Gunther cut, and I agree, syncing it will not really save it. If the ending visuals changed, maybe, but it's not worth it now.

I didn't put thought into it before, but yes, 'Coming to take me away' needs to go sadly. It was done in the first two, the joke is overdone.

I disagree with Code however on the Gurren Lagann clip, I side with InspZenigata. The lyrics are a bit hard to connect to the footage the first time because of the synth voice, but I enjoyed the clip for the timing and music to the visuals even not having gotten the joke. It's not laugh-out-loud funny like I said, but it causes a nice smile for me.

'Destroy you' clip I agree is a bit incomplete and random, but supposedly acquired decent reactions at AMA according to Deuce. I vote for Deuce or the author to repair Hughes' mouth flaps on it and let it remain unless everyone agrees it's not what it could be.

I vote for removing the Premiere commercial text from the Demolition Man clip entirely. Just like the text in the To Heart one, it's more distracting for me than entertaining. The clip is good on its own. Am I alone in thinking this?

Agreed all around on moving Big O head on back from the other. We also just had the excel Head On 3 clips before, so it definitely needs to move back a bit. It is the climactic head on commercial after all ^^ Also, it's probably worth it to ditch the Head On box graphic for the head on graphic you used in my Excel one so it works with the visuals rather than overlays them.

The other thing is timing on the test patterns and black space needs to get another pass, some places it's black too long, others, test patterns happen a half beat too late to nail the timing, but I think the entire movie will improve overall with a bunch of very small polishes here and there that shouldn't take more than a night, and allowing some clips to be sacrificed. It seems I'm completely wrong about the Now 63 clip, except I still believe the text needs to be repaired, but whatever, I'm very happy people laugh with it ^^

Thanks again, Code. We finally got some serious outside feedback.

Deuce, I think you shouldn't cling to the idea that these are all commercials. Like we both agreed before, it's not how it's amusing, as much as whether the audience is amused. I think trying too hard to force the Salad to be unified is causing half of our problems.
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby sakuraslight » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:02 pm

With the test you added to mine you made people thing what he hell ..

the kung fo panda and demolition man never had any test or images when i submited them that have been aded by the director .
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Gaelstrom » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:14 pm

sakuraslight wrote:With the text you added to mine you made people think what he hell ..

the kung fo panda and demolition man never had any text or images when i submited them that have been aded by the director .


I think it's been determined that adding stuff to clips that wasn't intended to be there is what is causing a lot of problems. The Head On ones were designed for commercials, so the added graphic doesn't kill the joke, but added text everywhere else is breaking jokes it seems.

I also believe the text added to the last clip after the credits should be toned down. I would say you can get the same effect by taking all text out except 'AMV Salad 4 Otakon 2010' at the end. Otherwise it seems like one of those locally made furniture or car commericials that try too hard to blast you with irrelevant information or tell you what you should be thinking. I never feel as insulted as when something claims that its funny FOR me rather than letting me make that determination for myself.
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Deuce Loosely » Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:42 am

This is a lot of information coming at one time but I'm doing what I can to make everyone happy. The way it sounds, I'm gonna have to rework the entire thing which is gonna take it a bit out of context.

sakuraslight:
The Demolition Man clip on its own was kind of random. While nicely done, it went on for a bit long. I tried thinking of it as a movie trailer but the scene from the movie was kind of restrictive to what could be done. Then, one day, Sandra Bullock's last line in the scene made me think of Adobe Premiere, which made me take another look at the clip as a package. The a-m-v.org logo, the screwy screens, the violence,...it just made sense. The text was there to set up the joke at the end. People liked it, but it's your call if you want me to take it back to its original form.

As for the Kung Fu Panda, I was sure I asked you about trying to make this into a trailer. I could fix it up so it looks better, but again people liked the idea. If you want me to revert it, I guess I shall.

And since the theme was commercials and trailers, the last sequence got the editor's seal of approval. It's supposed to be loud and sell the fact that AMVS4 is coming because that's when I tell people how to join. Promos, by their very nature, are annoyingly up front but must leave no doubt what to expect. It is advertising, after all. ;)

I'll address Code's remarks now.

Opening: tune in to TNT or AMC or any other cable channel when they transition between shows. It looks something like that. Maybe I could throw it in after the closing credits or even as an additive while the credits are rolling but it's gonna take some work. As is now, there's a movie trailer going in the window while the announcements for upcoming shows are being spoken and displayed on screen.

I realize I shouldn't have put the commercials first after the opening. I'm gonna have to do some heavy duty rearrangement of clips anyway so at least that will be fixed. Have you ever seen the recent "match.com" commercials? Dezbo turned that clip in not knowing what else to do with it. I asked if she cared if I made it a "match.com" ad and she told me to go for it.

I'll figure something out to do with the KFP clip, unless (as previously mentioned) sakuraslight wants me to revert the two clips to their original state. Otherwise, I can pretty it up some.

No real joke with the pic. It's from TakkoshoCon 2008. It's a fake [adult swim] random photo bumper.

The Haruhi dance wasn't originally meant for this project. Yeah, it's a bit long and it also has timing issues from what I'm told. If it's okay with the editor, I can work that out.

It was too bad that =DarKNesS= had but one clip this time. He lives in Russia and the army is taking his time these days. His talents are missed.

I think Captain Harlock is an older title but at least one person in the crowd recognized it. This is light humor, too. At least it seems the joke wasn't lost on you. ;)

Point taken on the "I Wanna Destroy You" clip. As amusing as I thought the Pucca clip was, I suppose starting off with Hughes telling Ed he wants to destroy him would suffice.

Yeah, I'm trying to come up with a segment-ending blip of some kind. There's always dead space for a second between commercials as well as just after any show cuts to break. They try and end that segment with a big laugh to carry over into the commercials. I'm not sure what kind of separator should cap the segments, though. Another test pattern?

I'd be able to do more with those graphics if I could afford something like photoshop or whatever that included the function of a "bucket fill" of transparency to isolate the central object and allow it to be placed anywhere. I might be able to work something out about the logo..?

The Azumanga / Green Jello clip was something I thought would convey the "Are you boys on drugs?" sentiment, but maybe I didn't make it trippy enough? Should have used a different scene? I dunno.

I've been hearing this about the song used in this clip. I think it's the only one I have from this editor but I'll look into it. Anyway, I'm seriously considering the suggestion as it's quite a lengthy buffer between the other clips.

I think I get it now. So you think making a fake bumper to bridge the clip-to-commercial gap is the way to go?

The instant clip-to-bumper thing was a glitch. Must fix.

This is a clip (the Joan Osborne one) which needs replacement because of visual issues. So far, I think the editor for that and the other obviously mistimed clips is working on re-encoding them..?

The credits could definitely go by faster. I'll get on that as well.

All this is the kind of advice and suggestion I need to make this project something better than what it was the previous round. I'm beginning to understand why MEP producers don't work with deadlines that are as concrete as mine tends to be. I had to put kind of a rush on this one because of time constraints. That won't happen again, I assure you that...all of you. You all deserve to be represented better and I'll be working further on this chapter to make sure even the 'org viewers are impressed.

Well, as long as I'm still awake, I may as well go back to work on this monster...
Last edited by Deuce Loosely on Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Katsucon 2012 - present
Zenkaikon 2013 - present
Anime Mid Atlantic 2010 - 13
Nekocon 2013
IchibanCon 2014

Executive Producer: AMV Salad 1 - 6
AMV Salad 7 is currently in production...
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Deuce Loosely » Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:48 am

Gaelstrom wrote:Deuce, you saw it at AMA, so you can tell better if the reaction was confused laughter or not.

The laughter came at the very end when the MW logo popped up. I dunno why they reacted so late, but something about it made an impact. :?
AMV Coordinator
Katsucon 2012 - present
Zenkaikon 2013 - present
Anime Mid Atlantic 2010 - 13
Nekocon 2013
IchibanCon 2014

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AMV Salad 7 is currently in production...
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