AMV's: Orthadox Editing Vs. Un-orthadox Editing

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Re: AMV's: Orthadox Editing Vs. Un-orthadox Editing

Postby Castor Troy » Mon May 18, 2009 3:20 am

PaperIsland wrote:Most editing rules are trying to aim the editor towards naturalness.

The accomplished editor Walter Murch says,
Walter Murch wrote:The grounding of film must be very deep in some common human perception which I think must be the language of dreams. The way human beings use images in dreams is very similar from culture to culture. The content might be different, but the transitions that happen in dreams are very similar.

Editing rules can be ignored for good reasons, but they're useful guides when there is no reason to ignore them. Now, if you're editing a music video, your reasons probably come from the music.


Walter Murch is awesome. :up:
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Re: AMV's: Orthadox Editing Vs. Un-orthadox Editing

Postby Bauzi » Mon May 18, 2009 8:14 am

There is just two types of editing:

For your aimed audience and not for your aimed audience.

If you make a synctarted, strobflashlight, crappy effects video for a TV documentation about cheese than you fail hard.


Advice:
Don't give a shit about other peoples advices if you don't like them. I think you came to a good level to have a good own editing style. Remeber: Effects can always be better and scene selection and stuff. That's far easier to critic in an objectiv way than your level of editing. The critisimn to your editing will be most of the time subjective unless you do something really wrong and awefull...

So it comes down how much percentage of the org editors you can please with your style. You can't please everyone and yes it is hard to get known and to make something epic.

I can't remeber for 100% about my former advices to you. However you know that I'm hard to please.


I think this quote comes from Beo:
It feels like amv editors found a certain formula to edit popular amvs. Now they use it to death.

Something like that...


Reminds me that I should start my editing experimental video.
I just want to create something that is: "fucking in your face and I hope you get eye and ear cancer because it's not bad, but a hell different from what you're used to."

I just don't feel that all that fancy editing isn't really necessary to make a video enjoyable or otherwise.

I suggest to watch some old good videos. From the early 2000. They're fairly differently edited than nowadays and still look great. Especially some comedy videos out there.



I know what you mean. We're surpressed by stupid expectations and guidelines like syncing bullshit (syncing isn't bad, but people often seam to blindly follow stupid beats). However... There are basiscs and everybody has to know them to make something good (well most of the time).

As I somehow said: At your level most of the critic you get will be subjectiv and not about basics anymore.

Pas wrote:Somewhere along the lines I think you forgot this is really just a hobby. People don't have to like it, as long as you enjoy what you do, why let any one else stop you? If what you fear is rejection or criticism, then this is certainly not the right place for you. If anything you'd be better off showing your video to friends and family, perhaps they'll learn to sugar coat it.

I think it's more about people who don't apprecite different editing styles that might not adopt to certain editing trends wich are above basic editing rules.

Pwolf wrote:damn dude, no one here is telling you to conform to anything.

Sorry dude, but the org really feels like it. About conforming an editing style from different groups (effects-, riot gear whores, syntards, no effects, cheesy effects, anti lip sync, beat sync, external sync, inner sync...)
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Re: AMV's: Orthadox Editing Vs. Un-orthadox Editing

Postby Chez » Mon May 18, 2009 1:50 pm

Term Paper Tim smith Phd
Sergei Eisenstein
both of these can really explain different ways to edit, the montage theory to me is a well documented simpler way to edit, whiles the invisible edits become harder but more widely used in today's editing world. As for Orthodox or Unorthodox it comes down to how much you enjoy it if others like it then its just bonus.
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Re: AMV's: Orthadox Editing Vs. Un-orthadox Editing

Postby Beowulf » Mon May 18, 2009 2:55 pm

I'm inclined to write a book for a post in this thread, but instead I'll just post something I haven't heard yet.

The audience has to know you can follow the rules that you're breaking.

This has a lot to do with fame/familiarity, but its absolutely true. If I download a random video with no beat hits, I immediately assume the creator doesn't know how to edit that well, and my reaction/expectation is adjusted (read: This shit sucks). If I download a video by Fluxmeister, a slow, methodical, weird video, I give the video the benefit of the artistic doubt because I KNOW that Flux knows exactly what he's doing.

You have to be able to speak the language before you start making up words. If you are going to edit in an esoteric, or unorthodox way, I NEED to know that you are capable of editing in the classic sense, otherwise I'll probably think you don't know wtf you're doing. This is true because so often, the line between "pushing the artistic envelope" and "jerking off to yourself in the mirror" is so small.

My newest video is the slowest, most deliberate, most painfully strait forward thing I've ever done. It was very well received, and part of that is because people KNOW that I can hit beats on snare drums. If some random kid had come out with that video, you can bet it wouldn't have gone over nearly as well, with most of the feedback being "boring" and "too slow" if it even got feedback at all. When I do it, its "classic old school editing" and "doing videos for yourself". Thats just the nature of public perception. Presentation has a lot to do with things as well, but thats a whole different thread.
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Re: AMV's: Orthadox Editing Vs. Un-orthadox Editing

Postby Fall_Child42 » Mon May 18, 2009 10:23 pm

I've had it up to here with your RULES.

When do I get my FREEKIN' Guns?
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Re: AMV's: Orthadox Editing Vs. Un-orthadox Editing

Postby Knowname » Mon May 18, 2009 10:47 pm

I just do what I learned to do in art/ music (or even literature) class... that's probly why I have NO technical skill lol. All of my editing techniques are based on emotions and junk.
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Re: AMV's: Orthadox Editing Vs. Un-orthadox Editing

Postby Knowname » Tue May 19, 2009 7:20 am

oh one thing I like to do that's very 'unorthadox' (actually I think it's logical but it just sounds weird) is when something fits TOO well I either unsynch it or toss the scene all together. I used to go all gaga over internal sync, but now I just think it's passe'.
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Re: AMV's: Orthadox Editing Vs. Un-orthadox Editing

Postby OzzieAlThor79 » Tue May 19, 2009 10:31 am

TwilightChrono wrote:Because nowadays you have to edit something just pure epic and awesome just to get any kind of praise on your video.


BS. I have read this a few places from other people as well. I have only made videos in the last like 4 years. I'm not exactly a well known editor here. The 3 I have made however actually get plenty of praise. Decent reviews, around a 3 start average for all of them.None of them are "epic". I picked an overused Anime on all 3. The video is ugly on the first 2 (because I didn't follow the guides and used WMM).

They still get positive notes from the people that see them. They aren't "their favorite videos EVAH!!!111!!1", they still are generally enjoyed by those who leave comments (quick and long).

The real reason you're saying that is deep down you want your videos to win awards on the ORG, be universally loved by all and maybe even win at a convention or two. That's the only reason you would suggest that 4 or 5 star review you get on your video isn't "praise".

I understand. Like anyone else, I like being liked. I would love my videos to be loved too. All I have to do is put the time, effort and knowledge into doing it, like the top editors on here do. THey put time and effort into learning more about their hobby. I don't really want to. I have a wife, 2 kids, work, a new home and an XBox 360 that take up most of my time. I use the guides to clean up my footage and then from there do it the way I want. Simple cuts, fade-ins, follow the beat and try and teall a bit of a story (generally).

My videos will continue to be seen by a few here and there and SOMEHOW I will get by in my life without being king of the ORG. You all can too. I swear.
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Re: AMV's: Orthadox Editing Vs. Un-orthadox Editing

Postby Castor Troy » Tue May 19, 2009 10:47 am

OzzieAlThor79 wrote:
TwilightChrono wrote:Because nowadays you have to edit something just pure epic and awesome just to get any kind of praise on your video.


BS. I have read this a few places from other people as well. I have only made videos in the last like 4 years. I'm not exactly a well known editor here. The 3 I have made however actually get plenty of praise. Decent reviews, around a 3 start average for all of them.None of them are "epic". I picked an overused Anime on all 3. The video is ugly on the first 2 (because I didn't follow the guides and used WMM).

They still get positive notes from the people that see them. They aren't "their favorite videos EVAH!!!111!!1", they still are generally enjoyed by those who leave comments (quick and long).

The real reason you're saying that is deep down you want your videos to win awards on the ORG, be universally loved by all and maybe even win at a convention or two. That's the only reason you would suggest that 4 or 5 star review you get on your video isn't "praise".

I understand. Like anyone else, I like being liked. I would love my videos to be loved too. All I have to do is put the time, effort and knowledge into doing it, like the top editors on here do. THey put time and effort into learning more about their hobby. I don't really want to. I have a wife, 2 kids, work, a new home and an XBox 360 that take up most of my time. I use the guides to clean up my footage and then from there do it the way I want. Simple cuts, fade-ins, follow the beat and try and teall a bit of a story (generally).

My videos will continue to be seen by a few here and there and SOMEHOW I will get by in my life without being king of the ORG. You all can too. I swear.


Yeah, the Xbox360 completely hinders amv progress. :P
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Re: AMV's: Orthadox Editing Vs. Un-orthadox Editing

Postby OzzieAlThor79 » Tue May 19, 2009 10:57 am

Castor Troy wrote:
OzzieAlThor79 wrote:
TwilightChrono wrote:Because nowadays you have to edit something just pure epic and awesome just to get any kind of praise on your video.


BS. I have read this a few places from other people as well. I have only made videos in the last like 4 years. I'm not exactly a well known editor here. The 3 I have made however actually get plenty of praise. Decent reviews, around a 3 start average for all of them.None of them are "epic". I picked an overused Anime on all 3. The video is ugly on the first 2 (because I didn't follow the guides and used WMM).

They still get positive notes from the people that see them. They aren't "their favorite videos EVAH!!!111!!1", they still are generally enjoyed by those who leave comments (quick and long).

The real reason you're saying that is deep down you want your videos to win awards on the ORG, be universally loved by all and maybe even win at a convention or two. That's the only reason you would suggest that 4 or 5 star review you get on your video isn't "praise".

I understand. Like anyone else, I like being liked. I would love my videos to be loved too. All I have to do is put the time, effort and knowledge into doing it, like the top editors on here do. THey put time and effort into learning more about their hobby. I don't really want to. I have a wife, 2 kids, work, a new home and an XBox 360 that take up most of my time. I use the guides to clean up my footage and then from there do it the way I want. Simple cuts, fade-ins, follow the beat and try and teall a bit of a story (generally).

My videos will continue to be seen by a few here and there and SOMEHOW I will get by in my life without being king of the ORG. You all can too. I swear.


Yeah, the Xbox360 completely hinders amv progress. :P


:lol: It does mine.

"X" amount of free time + Rock Band1/2 +CoD $ + Street Fighter 4 + whatever new football game = alot less free time. :sweat:
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Re: AMV's: Orthadox Editing Vs. Un-orthadox Editing

Postby LittleAtari » Tue May 19, 2009 12:14 pm

TwilightChrono wrote:Almost all AMV's nowadays contain masking or photoshopping, and make it very hard for people who don't know how to do that, to get anywhere in a Con AMV Contest or otherwise.

I dont think you realize how many videos are out there that use little to no effects that do actually make it into conventions and get praised.
Kazemon's Switchback AMV for the most part only uses fades and a few cookie cutters. It was made in Adobe Premiere Elements, but it made it as a Finalist in ACen's Action category. If you've seen the list of competitors at ACen, you would know that the video went up against a bunch of other editors on the Org. Castor Troy's ACen entry (which hasnt been uploaded here yet) was edited completely old school, using just hard cuts. On top of that it was a DBZ video.

I use very little effects in my videos and I think that I've gotten a decent amount of attention. My White Houses AMV has the most downloads out of all my videos and for the most part it's just black flashes and fades.

I think you dont realize that using little to no effects is actually a style that a lot of editors follow. I dont use that many effects. Like most people, I'm not into a video for it's effects. I'm into a video for it's content and editing. Good editing is not based on effects usage, but doing whatever you can with your footage to get it to match up well with the music

One final example is the Org's VCAs has a "Best No-Effects" AMV category. Using no effects is special and people do appreciate it.

TwilgihtChrono wrote:As stated, you have to make something super epic and bad-ass to get anykind of good feedback from anyone here on the org. Well, something along those lines. Every video I have seen on the org is either critisized or flamed out of existence, which isn't the idea behind watching an AMV.

I dont believe that this is true, especially with the streaming feature in place, there are a lot of well known editors check out videos made by people that they probably have never heard of. Best example right now is this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=94349.
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Re: AMV's: Orthadox Editing Vs. Un-orthadox Editing

Postby Knowname » Tue May 19, 2009 2:26 pm

OzzieAlThor79 wrote:The real reason you're saying that is deep down you want your videos to win awards on the ORG, be universally loved by all and maybe even win at a convention or two. That's the only reason you would suggest that 4 or 5 star review you get on your video isn't "praise".

I understand. Like anyone else, I like being liked. I would love my videos to be loved too. All I have to do is put the time, effort and knowledge into doing it, like the top editors on here do. THey put time and effort into learning more about their hobby. I don't really want to. I have a wife, 2 kids, work, a new home and an XBox 360 that take up most of my time. I use the guides to clean up my footage and then from there do it the way I want. Simple cuts, fade-ins, follow the beat and try and teall a bit of a story (generally).

My videos will continue to be seen by a few here and there and SOMEHOW I will get by in my life without being king of the ORG. You all can too. I swear.


my greatest accomplishment is somebody saying 'thank you for making this video'. That level of appreciation is just out of this world for me.

Contests? Don't care about em, that's not why I started enjoying this hobby with everybody. My goal is just to share my insanity with the world and pleasure myself to their appreciations... I mean... being pleased by their acceptance. LOVE ME BECAUSE I LOVE MYSELF :) too much.
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Re: AMV's: Orthadox Editing Vs. Un-orthadox Editing

Postby Bauzi » Tue May 19, 2009 4:35 pm

OzzieAlThor79 wrote:
Castor Troy wrote:
Yeah, the Xbox360 completely hinders amv progress. :P


:lol: It does mine.

Mine too... :sweat:
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Re: AMV's: Orthadox Editing Vs. Un-orthadox Editing

Postby Adv1sor » Tue May 19, 2009 5:22 pm

In music, some people say, if you don't hold the instrument correctly, if you don't stand or sit with the proper posture, if you don't play each note and pause each pause exactly as they are written, then you are not doing it right.

I say, if it sounds good it is good.

Same for AMVs. If I can sit through the entire thing and feel entertained, moved, excited, etc., then you did it right, no matter how you did it.

Oh, I would be remiss if I didn't take this opportunity to say, if you don't at least consider editing the music, you're only doing half the job!
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Re: AMV's: Orthadox Editing Vs. Un-orthadox Editing

Postby Knowname » Wed May 20, 2009 11:50 am

I consider anything under 3 stars failure, 4 stars undeserved and 5 stars your shitting me.
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