Can we please get some elaboration in here?

This forum is for the discussion of AMVs for the 2009 Viewers' Choice Awards. This is a temporary forum and will be removed when the contest is done.

Re: Can we please get some elaboration in here?

Postby Pwolf » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:23 pm

CorpseGoddess wrote:Interesting post, dw. And I agree with most of it, except the "whoring" part.


I think there's a distinct difference between self promoting and whoring... In the 2003, 2004, and i think 2005 VCAs, a few of us were clever about it and made up "posters":

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I wish more people would do this. You are self promoting but also taking comments from other editors. Although, I stopped doing it because my video have sucked and aren't worth anything.

Honestly, i'd rather see threads that have a good self promoting nature, like you are really trying to sell yourself and your videos, rather then sifting through a ton of random "x2" posts and video id links.
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Re: Can we please get some elaboration in here?

Postby LittleAtari » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:43 am

ooo, posters are pretty...
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Re: Can we please get some elaboration in here?

Postby Kitsuner » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:49 am

Some posters actually take more effort than the video itself.
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Re: Can we please get some elaboration in here?

Postby Ingow » Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:27 am

yea because how many in-crowd cool kids said your AMVs rock and how many awards they won totally is an objective way of judging if it's worth the time compared to a video that's just as good but wasn't in any competitions that year and that wasn't popular enough for Brad to download it, right? and yea pictures are so pretty 'n all don't forget about that, let's also buy all the Twilight books because the cover design is so dreamy.

BasharOfTheAges wrote:I think if you take a step back and really look at it you'll see this "horrible circle-jerk" of VCA voting is no different than how any real awards voting is. Hell - it's no different from any form of voting (especially local and regional politics).

This is actually something I wanted to point out before. The billboard charts, oscars and the bestseller lists are all fucking awful for the same reason that the VCAs suck, so if even the greatest artists out there get fucked with why shouldn't we? Though fighting the VCA parts that we don't like is still a lot easier than if we'd have to fight the oscars, so I say why not at least try it as long as there's at least a small chance? Contributing something of worth instead of ranting is always better, if only for your own peace of mind.
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Re: Can we please get some elaboration in here?

Postby Brad » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:00 am

Ingow wrote:yea because how many in-crowd cool kids said your AMVs rock and how many awards they won totally is an objective way of judging if it's worth the time compared to a video that's just as good but wasn't in any competitions that year and that wasn't popular enough for Brad to download it, right? and yea pictures are so pretty 'n all don't forget about that, let's also buy all the Twilight books because the cover design is so dreamy.


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Re: Can we please get some elaboration in here?

Postby Ingow » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:19 am

Brad wrote:(say that to yourself in Zoidberg's voice for the full effect)

Spoiler :
Fry and Leela are kissing in the newest movie.


Hey, just tryin' ta give this thread a positive touch.
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Re: Can we please get some elaboration in here?

Postby Pwolf » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:14 am

Ingow wrote:yea because how many in-crowd cool kids said your AMVs rock and how many awards they won totally is an objective way of judging if it's worth the time compared to a video that's just as good but wasn't in any competitions that year and that wasn't popular enough for Brad to download it, right? and yea pictures are so pretty 'n all don't forget about that, let's also buy all the Twilight books because the cover design is so dreamy.


I don't disagree with you there but I think you're looking at it the wrong way. The whole poster thing is to get people interested in looking at the video, not saying, "LOOK HOW MANY AWARDS I GOT AND WHAT THE COOL PEOPLE ARE SAYING ABOUT IT!!!! VOTE FOR ME!". Even then, the majority of the quotes i used aren't from the "in-crowd" cool people like you said. The Ace Combat Zero trailer 2 one doesn't have any "in-crowd cool people" (well, if you count Lostboy, but he's not hanging around much anymore). And it never won an award.

It also doesn't help that I posted only the ones I did, cause for one, several years ago, I was actually winning a fair amount of contests so any video worthy of being a VCA nominee had won an award during the previous year. On top of that, the so call in-crowd you are talking about happen to be some of my closest friends i've known for over 5 or 6 years now. If brad or jay say one of my videos is the best video i've made to date, then i'm putting that down. Even the people I don't know, like Beowulf... For those of us that know how he is, if he likes a video, that can carry some weight.

Basically, the point is to let other people what other people are saying about your video cause we can't look at your QCs and it would be a pain in the ass to go back and look at the announcement thread. You take a handful of good comments and let people know. It's a hell of a lot better then spamming your video into the forum with nothing but a vid link.


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Re: Can we please get some elaboration in here?

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:49 am

Quotes on a poster would be pointless if they're not from sources that at least someone deems a reliable judge of quality. For this place, that tends to be winning creators that are active in the community enough for random member X to know who the fuck they are. Movies list their reviews from places like the NY Times, and not the East Bumfuck Tribune for that very reason.

Questioning the impartiality or the quality of the people giving reviews is fine - people Baww over the big critics' qualifications all the time - but, again, the process is no different than how the real world works. People will assume the creators that make award-winning videos know something worth listening to. If you want to voice your distrust in that system, smear the people involved, not the process.

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Re: Can we please get some elaboration in here?

Postby Nya-chan Production » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:02 am

I think I'll make some posters for mine... more for fun, though :>
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Re: Can we please get some elaboration in here?

Postby Otohiko » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:20 pm

I have a rather different explanation for the cynicism and, conversely, some of the ceremony and pimpage surrounding the VCAs than most people here have suggested.

It's very easy to sneer and point out flaws and lament the inherent unfairness or vanity seen here as a sign of the VCAs degradation. But is it? Or are you simply buying into vanity and unfairness for the sake of pointing out how much better you are than everyone who is not cynical about it?

Why do we have to take this whole thing as a competition, anyway? Put it this way: the .org is a community. A community is not built around events or members all of their own merit - it's built around participation. An event is as good as the community's participation makes it. A member is as good as he/she contributes. The rest is ego-pumping.

So why don't we look at the VCAs as a community-building, rather than competitive event - I mean sure there's aspects in it that are always going to be inherently unobjective and maybe slightly unfair; but why also ignore the fact that the VCAs are a celebration of the hobby, helping to draw people in and promote it. It's good if it's a little shameless and pompous. It helps draw people into it and encourage participation. Things like pimping, prizes, multiple rounds - all help encourage participation, not just in the VCAs but the community as a whole. And this thread begins with some, um, gentle prodding towards not just participation, but productive, meaningful participation. It doesn't mean that we need less participation in general, at all. I don't see how the discussion got here.

Otherwise a lot of cynicism seems to be not really cynicism but elitism. Stripping down the VCA won't turn away the 'elite' who know the rules and want the 'gameplay'. But it does nothing good for the community other than sustain a core of it that doesn't reflect the hobby as it really is anymore.

All I'm trying to say is, relax and stop being so cynical. I think whatever negatives there are to the VCA, they're more than outweighed by the participation it produces. Without it, the community might be more fair, but it's a lot less fun. A lack of fun, and more importantly - a lack of participation is a much, much bigger turnoff to the wider public than any of the "inner circle" tendencies that most seem to be pointing a finger at here. Anything in the community that encourages good participation is a good thing. Let's try to keep that in mind, and let's try to keep that participation productive, otherwise we're just ruining our own hobby here instead of promoting it.
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Re: Can we please get some elaboration in here?

Postby Chiikaboom » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:54 pm

^
iawtc

lets stop being cynical arseholes and do this contest for the roffles and giggles like we're supposed to. + i always thought promoting your own vid was just a fun aspect of the contest, not a form of boasting :<

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Re: Can we please get some elaboration in here?

Postby Sonydjsnmix » Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:18 pm

Turbo wrote:I vote for 2 additional categories:
Best Story
Best Serious


Most amvs are stories already. I suggest Alternative Story. An amv that used footages to telling a different story from what the anime told. Also we don't need Best Serious. We already have Best Dramatic.
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Re: Can we please get some elaboration in here?

Postby godix » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:40 pm

Sonydjsnmix wrote:
Turbo wrote:I vote for 2 additional categories:
Best Story
Best Serious


Most amvs are stories already. I suggest Alternative Story. An amv that used footages to telling a different story from what the anime told. Also we don't need Best Serious. We already have Best Dramatic.

Actually most AMVs are not story. They are mood, sync, or character profiles that rely on you knowing the story already. There are story videos made but they aren't exactly common. I'd vote no on the Best Story because we'd probably end up with a video that actually had no story and, in my opinion, there aren't enough real story vids to bother with.

Best serious is already covered by other existing categories; sentimental, character profile, drama, horror, and romance categories are almost always serious vids. Artistic, Action, and Original usually are serious vids also although there actually isn't a requirement in the category about that. Video of the Year is usually serious as well since people have this idea that vid of the year has to be deep and artistic or deep or some other crap like that. So overall Best Serious would just be pointless duplication of other categories.
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Re: Can we please get some elaboration in here?

Postby The Origonal Head Hunter » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:07 pm

I demand Most Original Video be changed to Most Origonal Video.

Unfortunately, I'd still lose. :(
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Re: Can we please get some elaboration in here?

Postby Otohiko » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:21 am

godix wrote:
Sonydjsnmix wrote:
Turbo wrote:I vote for 2 additional categories:
Best Story
Best Serious


Most amvs are stories already. I suggest Alternative Story. An amv that used footages to telling a different story from what the anime told. Also we don't need Best Serious. We already have Best Dramatic.

Actually most AMVs are not story. They are mood, sync, or character profiles that rely on you knowing the story already. There are story videos made but they aren't exactly common. I'd vote no on the Best Story because we'd probably end up with a video that actually had no story and, in my opinion, there aren't enough real story vids to bother with.

Best serious is already covered by other existing categories; sentimental, character profile, drama, horror, and romance categories are almost always serious vids. Artistic, Action, and Original usually are serious vids also although there actually isn't a requirement in the category about that. Video of the Year is usually serious as well since people have this idea that vid of the year has to be deep and artistic or deep or some other crap like that. So overall Best Serious would just be pointless duplication of other categories.


I'd have to mostly agree on that. I think both categories are too vague and unspecific, or conversely could be defined too narrowly. Either way, it's probably not needed. "Alternate Story" is definitely a good one to consider since these are becoming increasingly common, but otherwise the idea of "story" in AMVs is kind of a strange definition. AMVs are not a narrative genre, and so the way a story or narrative might be told in them is pretty variable. And we don't want a category that's too uncertain - winning it would not mean much.

And Serious, yeah. If a case to separate them from other categories can be made, maybe, but I don't see how.

There are definitely some funny categories in the VCA. Namely "sentimental" and "instrumental", but I think both have been argued successfully and at least in the case of instrumental there is definitely a distinct genre around them that needs to be encouraged. Although by the same token, both have been misinterpreted by voters for the most part. "Use of" in the instrumental category did help however.

I think it's better to let the categories stay as they are for this year, in any case.
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