Research Survey

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Re: Research Survey -- scattered ideas on the report

Post by trythil » Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:11 am

PBS' Frontline ran an episode titled Growing Up Online that tackled a subset of the issues presented in the MacArthur Foundation report, such as the effect of digital media technologies on intimacy and familial relationships.

I liked the Frontline -- it was far from the usual FOX News-style scaremongering -- and recommend watching it. (Growing Up Online does nevertheless have a strong focus on privacy implications of highly-connected societies, though, so take that as you will.)

I'm reading the MacArthur report now and am finding it quite interesting. (I do have to say that I'm having a hard time suppressing the "the subject of this report is so dumb" impulse; I attribute that impulse to jadedness and a Sokolized impression of contemporary social studies. I should probably learn to drop both of those at some point.)


There's a few questions that I have about it, but those questions are obviously best directed at the authors of the study.

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Re: Research Survey -- scattered ideas on the report

Post by trythil » Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:23 am

Well, actually, I do want to say that I wasn't entirely satisfied with the treatment of "original" versus "derivative" works and how the former are often regarded as "superior" to the latter in the "Creative Production" section. I don't think the report's argument that originality vs. derivation needs to be looked at in a historical context is all that meaningful when viewing original and derivative works in the present. (I mean, sure, all this new digital media work may be viewed as culturally significant a while from now -- just as many people view, say, the Gone with the Wind film adaptation to be culturally significant -- but right now...well, I just don't think potential matters at all.)

I think a large part of the "superiority" in "original" works (and, indeed, a large part of "originality") is that an entity can legally claim ownership of them; this, I think, gives those works a sense of permanence. (The "I think" parts are, naturally, important here: it's for this reason that I've never regarded AMVs with much reverence, regardless of whether the AMV was made by me or not. Finally, I think that my opinion is not that of the majority.)

Because of that, I think AMVs will pretty much always be viewed as inferior -- not even on equal footing -- to the sources from which they came. Same goes for all other derivative creative works, or at least those which the author has not purchased or otherwise obtained the necessary rights to claim ownership to their work -- at which point, naturally, the work receives the veneer of "originality".

Why does this matter?

Well, actually, I'm not sure it does matter on a large scale. The report makes a pretty good case (as far as I can tell) that derivative creative works should be recognized as an important stimulus in developing media literacy, which by itself is a good reason for allowing more of this sort of stuff by e.g. relaxing copyright laws.

But it does matter to me. I'm looking for a way to not be ashamed about the videos I've made, about my involvement in this community. Sure, you can say that external perception doesn't matter, that I should let what I've done stand on its own merits -- but, really, it matters at the level in which the primal need for acceptance exists. It's really hard to eradicate, unless you have absolutely no social graces or some forms of autism.

For the past half-year I've been trying to scrub my associations with AMVs, and forge new associations: currently, in software engineering and photography. When people see me with AMV friends (in meatspace, obviously) and ask how we all met, I smile and offer some nonspecific answer. Then I try to redirect the conversation onto topics in which I have a socially accepted stake.

The response is automatic and usually adequate, but also annoying -- and I guess I was hoping this report would offer some easy-to-find insight that would make me proud of my AMV work. (Rapid-fire answer mode: Yes, it's a very self-serving request. No, I don't realistically expect to find it. No, I don't think it's a deficiency of the report that it doesn't cater to insecurities.)

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Re: Research Survey -- scattered ideas on the report

Post by Scintilla » Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:04 am

trythil wrote:It's really hard to eradicate, unless you have absolutely no social graces or some forms of autism.
That would explain so much about me.

But I'm surprised to hear all this, maybe because I personally have never felt that way about it at all -- I always put AMVs at or near the top of the list when people ask me about my hobbies. I've been introduced as "the guy who made Eva Bebop", to the impression (impressedness?) of the person meeting me. I'll wear my Aquiline Studios T-shirt in public on days when I'm not going to be running into anyone from my or Cyanna's family (and it's not too hot out).

The only person I wish wasn't so interested in the whole thing is my father (but that also applies to every single one of my other hobbies as well).
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Re: Research Survey

Post by mitomimi » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:47 pm

Thanks for posting on this doki and for reactions on the report!

Apologies for not posting myself, and also for never posting the full results of the survey. We tend to work at a snails pace in academia-land, and we needed to do some cleaning up on the survey piece of this. Once the dust settles on this current public release, I'll try to post some highlights on the survey.

The report that is out is actually not the final write-up on the anime fan work that I've done, but it's an overall summary across the 22 different case studies. I'll be putting together a book on anime fan and otaku culture that will do much more depth on the AMV side of things. So you'll see more to come, and hopefully I can address some of the limitations that you all bring up here, including much more on the issue of secondary production.

I know that benefits of the Internet may be obvious to you all, but apparently it is news for a lot of people out there ^^

Mimi

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Re: Research Survey

Post by DriftRoot » Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:12 am

Driving to my family's house this Thanksgiving I encountered one of the interviews on the radio, namely done by NPR. They had a panel of several individuals weighing in on how they use the Internet for socializing, and it struck me was that even though the research was presented as a look at the "youth" demographic, there was only one teenager represented on the panel. The others were in the early- mid-20's, which is not what I think of when I hear "youth." While I'm not sure the teens and the 20-somethings are using the Internet for heavy socialization in different ways, I am curious as to what the researchers considered to BE "youth." Is "youth" defined not as an age, but rather a pattern of behavior that could apply to just about anyone as long as they were behaving like "young people" (which apparently is assumed to mean being heavy Internet socializers)?

One thing that did amuse me a little was the assumption of access to technology, without which all of this is simply not possible. Not everyone has cell phones, not everyone has plans that allow for 24/7 texting or Internet access, heck - not everyone has high speed Internet. So when we talk about "youths" who are highly involved with Internet culture, by default we're talking about people with access to very specific resources, not the least of which is money.

I'd be curious to know what "youths" who aren't so heavily plugged in (by choice or not) think of all this, whether they view themselves as the "normal" ones, whether they want to be heavy Internet socializers and from where that desire, if it exists, arises. Do they want to be plugged in because they hear all the time that they're "supposed" to be plugged in? That otherwise they're missing out on some crucial experience that is (supposedly) the defining aspect of their generation? I know I'd be annoyed if I wasn't a frenetic Twitter/Facebook/MySpace user and people constantly assumed I was because I was because of my age...but then I've always been annoyed with stereotyping. :roll:
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Re: Research Survey

Post by Shui » Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:40 pm

I only get 404s :sweat:
Spoiler :
fucking stealing other poeples hard work and claiming it as your own, you guys should be ashemed

ppl fukin fuk spent years making those animes, blood sweat and spilt coffe stains drawing all day long just to get a title "animator: this GUY" and then those music ppl spend years learning to produce music, teams of so many hard working ppl just trying to get their stuff out there in the world then WHAT TEH FUK DO U GUYS DO? u fukin take the drawings, u fukin take the music, then u just slap it fukin together like its fukin nothing, then u make banners and og take credit for it fukin all like u fukin made shit goin amv contests actin liek ur teh fukin shit fukin sayin i amde this fukin liek if u fukin did fukin makin fukin the fukin fukin fukin fukin - MiyaDV (2014)

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Re: Research Survey

Post by BasharOfTheAges » Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:02 pm

Shui wrote:I only get 404s :sweat:
The links were valid 27 months ago when the thread was started.
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Re: Research Survey

Post by Knowname » Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:28 pm

godix wrote:I heard about this today from the local hosts for talk radio although until just now I didn't realize they were talking about the same thing that was on the org. I do recall the whole thing came off as a joke, especially the line that went something like kids are learning valuable skills because they make myspace pages and post on forums. Oh yeah, there's something to put on the old resume.

"Hey everyone, this person posts on myspace! That's some valuable skills! You're hired. Here's your hairnet and remember, we don't use the term 'super size' anymore. Not since that movie of that name."
sorry but I like to bash Godix whenever I can (doesn't everybody??) while sites like Livejournal and Myspace don't belong on (traditional) resumes it is a conduit for social gatherings, or a way to get that contact you need. No boss wants the dorky whole-in-the-wall worker running their company, it's like applications for college, they aren't just interested in your grades, they want an outgoing dork!

If your in an interview for a job high enough that it is of any relevance, you might put it on your business card. You could say the same thing about email back in the day. Nobody wants to see your punk-ass poop stain website if all you do is cater to the fanboy crowd.
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Re: Research Survey

Post by Gepetto » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:46 pm

Knowname wrote:
godix wrote:I heard about this today from the local hosts for talk radio although until just now I didn't realize they were talking about the same thing that was on the org. I do recall the whole thing came off as a joke, especially the line that went something like kids are learning valuable skills because they make myspace pages and post on forums. Oh yeah, there's something to put on the old resume.

"Hey everyone, this person posts on myspace! That's some valuable skills! You're hired. Here's your hairnet and remember, we don't use the term 'super size' anymore. Not since that movie of that name."
sorry but I like to bash Godix whenever I can (doesn't everybody??) while sites like Livejournal and Myspace don't belong on (traditional) resumes it is a conduit for social gatherings, or a way to get that contact you need. No boss wants the dorky whole-in-the-wall worker running their company, it's like applications for college, they aren't just interested in your grades, they want an outgoing dork!

If your in an interview for a job high enough that it is of any relevance, you might put it on your business card. You could say the same thing about email back in the day. Nobody wants to see your punk-ass poop stain website if all you do is cater to the fanboy crowd.
Far from me to have any reason to defend godix, but I'm with her on this one. Being on Myspace may prove that you're less likely to be a social outcast (maybe), just like wet streets may prove that it rained. But the wet street didn't cause the rain, and having a Myspace page certainly didn't teach anyone whatever social skills people think they have these days, even if they do have them.
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Re: Research Survey

Post by Scintilla » Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:05 pm

Gepetto wrote:Far from me to have any reason to defend godix, but I'm with her on this one.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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