the bailout

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the bailout

Postby downwithpants » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:39 am

would you stop supporting for a congressperson for voting for it?

i can see cons to the bailout, including:
higher taxes
larger national debt
weakening of the dollar
absolvation of responsibility for rich white people
shift towards socialism

but considering the alternative:
massive unemployment
long term economic slowdown

i think it's a necessary investment we need to make-- this doesn't affect only rich white people playing the stock market, there will be layoffs nationwide. thoughts?
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Postby Fall_Child42 » Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:40 am

I like how a "Shift towards socialism" has to be in the "Cons" section.

P.S. Didn't deregulation 8 years ago cause this entire crisis in the first place?
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Postby guy07 » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:00 am

So ...."Don't screw poor people! It's everyone or gtfo!" lol
Having a weak dollar can actually be a strong point. It can make it cheaper for people from other countries to come and visit. Canada use to have tons of tourists until our dollar went up ... now it's too expensive and less people are coming here to sight see and what not. :(
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Re: the bailout

Postby dwchang » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:12 am

downwithpants wrote:would you stop supporting for a congressperson for voting for it?

i can see cons to the bailout, including:
higher taxes
larger national debt
weakening of the dollar
absolvation of responsibility for rich white people
shift towards socialism

but considering the alternative:
massive unemployment
long term economic slowdown

i think it's a necessary investment we need to make-- this doesn't affect only rich white people playing the stock market, there will be layoffs nationwide. thoughts?


I don't have a lot of time to write a giant ass reply, but NOT doing it is far worse than doing it. The solution isn't ideal, but having no banks to lend (or at least ones who are VERY stingy when it comes to lending)to small business (even big businesses), new home buyers, etc. would have the economy come to a screeching halt with very little growth or development.

That would affect EVERYONE so it's not just going to screw the banks and the rich people. That's a stupid statement to say in the first place and thinks the dominoes won't continue to fall and eventually fall on you. It's all related.
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Postby Otohiko » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:16 am

Doktor F.C. Mad Genius wrote:I like how a "Shift towards socialism" has to be in the "Cons" section.


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Postby jasper-isis » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:04 pm

The congressmen who voted against it were just playing chicken. They wanted it to pass, but they didn't want go to on record for passing it, so they were relying on others to carry it through. Everybody was confident that it'd go through anyway. And then the tallies came in.

I laughed a very sad laugh.
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Postby BasharOfTheAges » Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:26 pm

The markets rebounded pretty well today for impending doom.

I think we honestly need to let this play out. Our economy is all smoke and mirrors at this point and the constant, rapid growth of the past 20 years is not a feasible long-term thing. It can't go on indefinitely, especially when so much of it was built on money that isn't real and debts that can never be repaid.

It doesn't help when a debate that should center around logic has so much emotion tied to it. Nobody wants to look like the bad guy for saying "well, we were stupid and should probably have to pay for it sometime - either do it now or have it be 10x worse in a decade or two."
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Postby guy07 » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:03 pm

BasharOfTheAges wrote:Shit happens.

:up:
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Postby Kalium » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:13 pm

BasharOfTheAges wrote:It doesn't help when a debate that should center around logic has so much emotion tied to it. Nobody wants to look like the bad guy for saying "well, we were stupid and should probably have to pay for it sometime - either do it now or have it be 10x worse in a decade or two."

But collective illusion is the American Way!
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Postby Krisqo » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:54 pm

BasharOfTheAges wrote:The markets rebounded pretty well today for impending doom.

I think we honestly need to let this play out. Our economy is all smoke and mirrors at this point and the constant, rapid growth of the past 20 years is not a feasible long-term thing. It can't go on indefinitely, especially when so much of it was built on money that isn't real and debts that can never be repaid.

It doesn't help when a debate that should center around logic has so much emotion tied to it. Nobody wants to look like the bad guy for saying "well, we were stupid and should probably have to pay for it sometime - either do it now or have it be 10x worse in a decade or two."


x2

Think of the Dot Com Boom. At one point the NASDAC (sp) was well over 5,000. Then the bubble burst.

The same happened here. It was all housing.Remember all those infomercials about making money in the housing industry? The bubble burst and this time it hits harder since more were involved in the housing boom (i.e. banks). Those where were not prepared for the fall are those ones that will eventually fail like all those DotCom companies. It's the way of life in economics. You do good for a while then BAM!!!!

Still, I thank God for never getting into the stock market..
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Postby godix » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:07 pm

I support a bailout of the financial institutions provided in the very same bill are limits of company finances for any company that accepts, including CEO pay/bonuses but far more extensive than that, and provisions for putting in place regulation to stop this from happening again.

Although from what I can tell the problem really wasn't that there wasn't regulation, it was that the politicians and regulators viewed the housing bubble as a good thing instead of a problem that needed dealt with. Considering the housing bubble is, in part, what prevented the economy from going to hell right after 9/11 they may have even been right in that view.

I do not support bailout for homeowners. If the fuckers can't afford to own a house then they shouldn't own a house. *I* don't own a house because I knew I couldn't pay for it. I really really don't want to have to reward sheer fucking stupidity, especially if it requires me buying for others what I can't afford to buy for myself.

I wouldn't change my vote for a politician disagreeing with me on this, but I would change it for a politician who's obviously just trying to buy off votes this way. Assuming, of course, there actually is another politician not buying off votes that I could support. That's probably not a valid assumption at the moment.
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Postby NS » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:20 pm

godix wrote:I do not support bailout for homeowners. If the fuckers can't afford to own a house then they shouldn't own a house. *I* don't own a house because I knew I couldn't pay for it. I really really don't want to have to reward sheer fucking stupidity, especially if it requires me buying for others what I can't afford to buy for myself.


This point came up in a discussion we had in my school's world affairs class, and I couldn't agree more.
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Postby Pwolf » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:13 pm

godix wrote:I do not support bailout for homeowners. If the fuckers can't afford to own a house then they shouldn't own a house. *I* don't own a house because I knew I couldn't pay for it. I really really don't want to have to reward sheer fucking stupidity, especially if it requires me buying for others what I can't afford to buy for myself.


x2... Even though my mother lost her house due to foreclosure, she lost it because her real estate business went under due to the housing mess.

I'd like to take the same stance against the banks for even agreeing to these fucked up loans and letting people who can't afford a house, get one. But, I'd have to agree with chang on this one... I think no bailout would screw everyone not just the banks.
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Postby Vlad G Pohnert » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:29 pm

Give me the Bailout money, for that much cash I'll be sure to fix all of America's problems

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Postby guy07 » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:47 pm

Vlad G Pohnert wrote:Give me the Bailout money, for that much cash I'll be sure to fix all of America's problems

It wouldn't cost THAT much to buy a nuke just large enough to take out D.C. :ying:
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