Religion

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Postby guy07 » Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:36 am

Copycat_Revolver wrote:Quick, Doctors! We need a chart for the stupid level of this thread.]
Start with "Relegion".

Quiet you, you know spelling isn't my strong point. >.>;

Many (western) religions do this - their adherents try to get special treatment, try to change law based on their religious beliefs.

I think you're overlooking the fact that for thousands of years, religion WAS the law. You could actually be put in jail for not going to church at one point. And I totally agree with what you said about religions suppressing others. The Witch Hunts were a good example of that. They pretty much killed any woman who was a free thinker or strong willed. And we don't even KNOW how many were killed. Thank you, religion. :roll:
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Postby Kristyrat » Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:37 am

I used to claim I was atheist, without really knowing what it meant or if it was what I truly "believed". I forget exactly when, but I stumbled upon Deism, and realized it was a much more accurate representation of how I felt the world "worked", so to speak.

As for the concept of an afterlife... sure it would be cool, certainly something for people to look forward to. I personally think it's incredibly egotistical for us to believe that we're composed of anything more than flesh, and that we continue life after death, be it through reincarnation, heaven or whatever. Doesn't that put us above every other living being on Earth, and thus (a stretch maybe) equate us to God(s)?

Who knows?
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Postby purplepolecat » Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:22 pm

Lifelong atheist here. I can let you in on a few secrets:

1) I'm not mad at god or my parents (they are agnostic, I think)

2) Not believing is really easy if you've never believed

3) Being an atheist is like being the designated driver at the party and having to watch everyone else get drunk, you may not look like you're having much fun but you get to see some really funny shit
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Postby guy07 » Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:28 pm

purplepolecat wrote: Being an atheist is like being the designated driver at the party and having to watch everyone else get drunk, you may not look like you're having much fun but you get to see some really funny shit

As funny as that sounds, that's sort of the way i see it too, lol.
Also, I'm not too sure about that whole 'mad at your parents' thing ... I don't see how not being religious would have anything to do with them. :?
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Postby surfsama » Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:45 pm

Generally, I'm a fair-weather Atheist. It amazes me how quickly I can become "religious" when things turn for the worse.
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Postby wurpess » Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:19 pm

LantisEscudo wrote:I could use any number of labels to describe my particular set of religious beliefs, but probably the most accurate would be "Agnostic Deist."

I believe that there is or was some "Power," for lack of a better term, that set the universe in motion, after defining the natural laws that govern it (gravity, atomic bonds, etc.), and then he/she/gendered pronoun humans don't use/it/they sat back and let it run. I've heard this described as the Celestial Clockmaker theory, too. Whether they're still around, have left completely, or are still actively involved but unable to be noticed by the universe's occupants is an unknown and really unknowable question.

I was raised in a Roman Catholic family (though one of my grandmothers and her family are very devout Lutherans), so that's really formed the core of my personal moral code, but I have a rather hefty scepticism about organized religion, especially given how much bad stuff has been done in their names (I'll admit, there's been a lot of good, too, but I'm not sure it outweighs the bad). Probably the two bedrocks of what I believe that apply to everyday life are the sixth chapter of the Gospel of Matthew and the quote from Oliver Wendell Holmes, "The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins."

I really don't mind what anyone believes, until it starts affecting other people, either through direct action or by trying to impose those beliefs on others. Then I have a problem with their religion. I hate being the target of an attempted conversion, but I'm perfectly willing to discuss religion or faith if I'm asked about them in an attempt at greater understanding, rather than a recruitment drive.

x2 almost completely word for word. Of course, being a schiz with the variety of voices I have makes things in the religious end interesting. (Lets just say that if I were religious, I probably would have been deemed "chosen" were I to reveal the words of my voices, but since I'm not. . . .) But yeah. that about sums it up. . .or something. . .:uhoh:
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Postby CodeZTM » Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:39 pm

I've missed out on a lot it seems.

I am a Christian. Let me be honest in this. I am a very strong Christian now. Mostly, that was what my small break from the site was about. My life was miserable. I had to get a lot of things straight with God, and I'm grateful for it now.

Christianity is more than what a lot of people make it out to be. It's not about beating people with a Bible and converting them to add a shiny star to your scorecard. Christianity is about accepting people for who they are, and refraining from judging others. It's about accepting Jesus as our Savior, and realizing that He died for our sins, all in order for us to get into Heaven. Not only that, but by living by the Bible and Its Word.

Christianity does (by no means) not want everybody to be perfect. Perfection is impossible! God only asks of us to try and be better with each and every passing day, and ask for forgiveness from our sins.

Why do I believe in this? If you're asking for logical proof, I have none. But I know what it felt to be away from God and what it's like to have God. Having God is the best thing in my life. He's like the air I breathe. Just by asking Him to come into your heart will begin a wonderful transformation of your entire being. Now, I'm not saying the transformed you will always be happy and sorrow will go away, that's not how God works. He's not a magical genie giving out wishes. God wishes to push us to our limits, bring out the best in us, and make us happy. Life will never be totally perfect. We will have stumbles, we will fall, we will fail and we will sin. There is no getting around that. The only difference between Christians and non-Christians is that Christians have God to pick us back up when we fall down.

I know a lot of you don't believe in this, and I was the same way until about February of this year. It's all about faith, and a lot of you guys are really logical-based thinkers. I respect that, and I'm the same way in a lot of regards.

I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm always up for a rip-snorting good debate about religion. :)
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Postby wurpess » Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:22 am

CodeChrono wrote:I've missed out on a lot it seems.

I am a Christian. Let me be honest in this. I am a very strong Christian now. Mostly, that was what my small break from the site was about. My life was miserable. I had to get a lot of things straight with God, and I'm grateful for it now.

Christianity is more than what a lot of people make it out to be. It's not about beating people with a Bible and converting them to add a shiny star to your scorecard. Christianity is about accepting people for who they are, and refraining from judging others. It's about accepting Jesus as our Savior, and realizing that He died for our sins, all in order for us to get into Heaven. Not only that, but by living by the Bible and Its Word.

Christianity does (by no means) not want everybody to be perfect. Perfection is impossible! God only asks of us to try and be better with each and every passing day, and ask for forgiveness from our sins.

Why do I believe in this? If you're asking for logical proof, I have none. But I know what it felt to be away from God and what it's like to have God. Having God is the best thing in my life. He's like the air I breathe. Just by asking Him to come into your heart will begin a wonderful transformation of your entire being. Now, I'm not saying the transformed you will always be happy and sorrow will go away, that's not how God works. He's not a magical genie giving out wishes. God wishes to push us to our limits, bring out the best in us, and make us happy. Life will never be totally perfect. We will have stumbles, we will fall, we will fail and we will sin. There is no getting around that. The only difference between Christians and non-Christians is that Christians have God to pick us back up when we fall down.

I know a lot of you don't believe in this, and I was the same way until about February of this year. It's all about faith, and a lot of you guys are really logical-based thinkers. I respect that, and I'm the same way in a lot of regards.

I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm always up for a rip-snorting good debate about religion. :)

Now see, this is beautiful. What Christianity should be about. About celebrating God and Christ and bonding with your fellow God/Christ celebrating neighbors. You see, like communism, Christianity, and other religions, work great on paper, and maybe on a small scale with a select group of people. You get it too wide spread, human kind type stuff kicks in and it becomes one big disaster. Which is why I have a problem with organized religion in general, but not with religious people who stay true to their faith. *^_^*
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Postby guy07 » Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:58 am

X2 what wupress said. Props to chrono for actually following what the Christians teach.
@wupress: Did they say anything about Canada winning the in the Olympics ...? bad joke, i know >_<
We need more regions in here, isn't anyone here like Buddhist or Satanic or anything?
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Postby The Origonal Head Hunter » Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:36 am

wurpess wrote:being a schiz with the variety of voices I have makes things in the religious end interesting. (Lets just say that if I were religious, I probably would have been deemed "chosen" were I to reveal the words of my voices, but since I'm not. . . .)
You are the modern Joan Of Arc. :uhoh:

x3 to the chrono props.
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Postby wurpess » Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:49 am

guy07 wrote:@wupress: Did they say anything about Canada winning the in the Olympics ...? bad joke, i know >_<

Let's see, who they are, creation, evolution, "mythical" creatures, quantum physics+religion/"superior" beings, the deal with God vs. Lucifer, my purpose in life, my future children(s)' purpose(s) in life, the apocolypse/end of the world, sex. . .nope, nothing on Canada. :P :lol:

The Origonal Head Hunter wrote:
wurpess wrote:being a schiz with the variety of voices I have makes things in the religious end interesting. (Lets just say that if I were religious, I probably would have been deemed "chosen" were I to reveal the words of my voices, but since I'm not. . . .)
You are the modern Joan Of Arc. :uhoh:

x3 to the chrono props.

lol. :lol: And luckily I'm grounded enough to realize that the voices are probably just part of that whole psychosis thing and not actually some superior beings talking to me. And have enough of a sense of humor to be able to laugh about it. (Though am open minded enough to keep it in the back of my mind. . .you know. . .just in case I'm not completely crazy. . since they can be eerily intuitive at times. :uhoh:)
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Postby Copycat_Revolver » Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:18 am

BasharOfTheAges wrote:
Copycat_Revolver wrote:
Sukunai wrote:...a bunch of dismissive crap.


What in the merry old hell is your point?

Look, there are a lot of people out there who do believe in some sort of god. You don't have to agree with it but you do have to respect it.

For Political correctness's sake you may have to act like you respect it, but to be true to science and logic, you don't have to respect it at all.


Actually, what I was referring to was an individual's personal faith. They can do whatever they want, but once that belief starts screwing with other people's lives, then we're in a whole different ballgame. I'm not saying that every person's opinion is instantly true.

Also, I only said that a certain percentage of atheists were of the angry, not really an atheist variety.

To clarify, though, I am an atheist as well. And I despise organized religion fiercely. However, I think the problem with it is the "organized" part. Groups of people who use their religion as a moral highground to undermine the natural rights of others is a plague and a cancer eating at the intestines of society.
Even so, I don't think every person who believes in god should instantly be condemned if their faith is what gets them through the day without gouging their own eyes out with a letter opener.

My problem with Sukunai's post was how she basically shat upon anybody who isn't a cynical skeptic and calling all beliefs trash (basically). Many people do need their religion and they should be allowed that.

That's all. Continue the thread as normal.
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Postby surfsama » Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:12 am

Copycat_Revolver wrote:My problem with Sukunai's post was how she basically shat upon anybody

I actually learned something from this thread.
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Postby Sukunai » Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:12 am

Copycat_Revolver wrote:
Sukunai wrote:...a bunch of dismissive crap.


What in the merry old hell is your point?

Look, there are a lot of people out there who do believe in some sort of god. You don't have to agree with it but you do have to respect it.

Please see previous post about "angry athiests".

The fact remains that people should be allowed to believe in whatever they bloody well please, "fictional" or not. If you want to worship Willy the Magical Doorknob, go right ahead and build a damn shrine. I'll buy you a wreath.

Also, why is it that you think athiests (or whoever) aren't allowed to use words like "believe"? That is the most childish bit of nonsense I've been subjected to recently. So congrats on that part.


I'd like to respond to your nonsensical post, but to be honest, it's probably easier to just steal Bashar's post and use it. He said pretty much my response anyway.

Short answer, there is more logic in fining me for not wearing a seatbelt (for my own damn good) than fining me for telling you your religion is indicative you have a weak mind and under developed intellect and a fear driven belief system deprived of an ability to deal with scientific fact (borders on hate crime if done the wrong way).

You call it "dismissive crap". That's interesting.
Your belief is almost entirely crap.
Faith is just a word denoting you have decided to suspend thinking.

As for "screwing with other people's lives", it already is.
Between Christians telling me I can't screw my wife in broad daylight in a park, and sex is a perfectly natural act, not the disgusting sinful act you want it to be, and Muslims telling me they can beat the crap out of a woman, and I can't beat the crap out of the man for doing it, because it's his religious right to do it. Oh yeah, you religious freaks are screwing with MY rights plenty.

Note to any Muslims present. Abuse a female in my presence, and you are being sent to a hospital emergency ward with life threatening injuries. And no human law will make me change my mind.

Specific note to Copycat_Revolver, I am not a "she" (well that was fairly obvious to my wife at least an hour ago). I like Sailormoon, which is why I used it as an avatar. Assuming I am a female based on an avatar is clumsy. Assuming I am female based on a peculiar sounding forum name is also clumsy.
Not reading my post close enough to "hear" the atypical male tone is also clumsy.

To conclude this post, I wish to respond to this specifically.

"Look, there are a lot of people out there who do believe in some sort of god. You don't have to agree with it but you do have to respect it."

Respecting a person's religion has nothing to do with respect. It's just a matter of practicality.
I don't HAVE to be practical, but it might be too UNPRACTICAL to do otherwise in some cases.
You don't openly slag gays in the middle of a gay rally.
It's not bright to be a nazi in Israel.
Claiming to be a satanist is unwise in a Catholic church.
It's not smart to walk into a Scientology property and start slagging them off.
I think you should be able to get THAT point.

Science is not about respect. Science is just a search for knowledge.
In the scientific community, if you utter a claim of scientific fact, that attacks current scientific fact, and claims the currently accepted facts are in error, you either have iron clad proof, that can be repeated, and defended under extreme scrutiny, or you get told your facts are full of shit.
It's not considered "intolerant", and your attackers and not considered as lacking in faith. It's not a hate crime to publicly publish material ridiculing your ideas and calling you all sort of nasty reputation killing bad names.

Science is no friend of unprovable gibberish.
And science is not required to respect stupid notions.

Again, I am not an atheist, nor an agnostic. I'm not interested in playing the label game.
I suppose if I had to say soooomething, I'd say I'm a scientist.
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Postby Sukunai » Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:28 am

"Christianity is about accepting people for who they are, and refraining from judging others. It's about accepting Jesus as our Savior, and realizing that He died for our sins, all in order for us to get into Heaven. Not only that, but by living by the Bible and Its Word."

Sounds all nice and warm and fuzzy.

Then you are forced to remember things like, these same people refuse to leave their religion at home.

They insist on enacting laws slanted in their favour.
Death penalty, I'm for it, they are not. Why are they not for it? Oh it's their religious beliefs.
Abortion, oh you can bet their religion will show up for this one.
Gays getting married, yep, they will impose their will on that too.
Age of majority, this is also a religiously driven decision.
Legality of doing weed, heck they even show up here.

These non judgmental Christians are simply incapable of being non judgmental.
They will claim nearly anything in order to get their way.
And they usually do, because in a democracy, the most votes wins.
Which I think is why they are so scared of Islam, as those Muslims are breeding like rabbits while the Christian world is in decline. Heck there are more and more Muslims showing up, even though they have a fondness for killing their young off in Jihads (you never see old suicide bombers for some reason).

The only way to sell Christianity, in a fashion that holds true to the message, is to make it so appealing, that I demand you let me have it too.
Telling me I'm going to hell for being a sinner" yeah that's really great marketing.
Stomping all over my rights? yeah pissing me off is a good way to influence me.

Actually STOP telling me how to run my life, and I might believe you don't actually want to.
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