New Recommended AMVs Topic: Narrative

pink haze
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New Recommended AMVs Topic: Narrative

Post by pink haze » Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:19 am

I would like to see a section in the Recommended AMVs thread that showcases videos that specifically tell stories. The thread exists as a "record of what people consider to be truly great videos," and there seems to be a number of videos that are great primarily because of their narrative elements. The classic example is "Tainted Doughnuts." It's story is easy to follow and convincing: Spike hunts Vash for a bounty.
I have listed more narrative videos at the end of this post.

This type of video may be a specific facet of the "drama" genre, depending on how that is defined on this site. I am not sure if a drama video must tell a story or if it must simply be "dramatic," that is, particularly striking or moving. I suspect that many people would accept either meaning. However it is arranged, I would define the Narrative category as follows:

The main focus of a music video in this class should be to tell a story by showing an incident or series of connected events that form a coherent plot. The plot may be simple or complex, presented chronologically or riddled with flashbacks, but it shouldn't just be a collection of scenes linked by a common theme. A story must report something that happened.

It may be a good idea to restrict this category to only the "Original Narrative," such that the story should be for the most part the creation of the music video maker. In this case it would not suffice to merely recount the plot of the anime from which the footage is taken. That story would not be the creator's work, which is what the Original Narrative thread should exhibit. It would be acceptable for a video to tell a story from an anime as long as it is largely original, either because it has been somewhat changed or shown in a new light.
I should probably clarify on this last point. The story needn't actually be the creator's own work, as long as it was not first shown in that anime. For example, a music video that tells the story of Cinderella with Sailormoon characters would be considered an Original Narrative video.

Either way, the Narrative is a worthy category for the AMV Recommendations thread.


Here the characters remain virtually as they are personality-wise, but they perform actions that never happened in the anime.


A more surreal approach to storytelling, taking place in Squall's dream.


Liner story almost from beginning to end, plus one flashback.


An example of 2nd person and non-linear storytelling.


A completely new situation is created with virtually no connection to the plot of the anime. Closest thing I could find to an allegory.


And that's when Sasuke chidoried Hinata.

Thank you for considering my recommendation.

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Emotive
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Post by Emotive » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:44 am

The existance of a specific storyline, if any at all, in a video is a very relative thing..

You might see a full and complete storyline in a video while even the creator didn't intend it, or you might see a video as "just scenes linked to a theme without a certain storyline" while there's a complete storyline hidden behind it or one you just couldn't get for any reason.

For example, someone may want to describe an LSD trip, showing someone being attacked by walls, communicating with trees and flowers, experiencing lots of things and in the end managing to fall asleep. Now, does it have a storyline or does it not? Whether you say it does or it doesn't, someone will contradict you.. Because this can be the story of someone who took LSD and then he was attacked by walls and then he went and communicated with the nature and then he heard a mosquito passing by and acted weird e.t.c. until, in the end, he fell asleep, BUT it could also be interpreted as various scenes surrounding the given theme (the various effects the drug had on the character) in no specific order, with no real continuation of the events shown..
So as much as you insist those events were in a random order and the video had no storyline the creator might insist that these scenes were in the exact order that it all happened and thus the video had a storyline.
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Post by JaddziaDax » Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:04 am



this has a specific storyline

pink haze
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Post by pink haze » Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:11 pm

In response to Cast to Stone's post:

If the creator intended for a music video to have a storyline but they made it in such a way that it is nigh unrecognizable by the audience, then the creator failed in their attempt to communicate their story. Such a music video would not make it on the best Narrative video list, naturally.

Now, if someone were to successfully execute a story about a person who takes LSD, hallucinates that they are attacked by walls, communicates with nature, hears a mosquito passing by, acts weird, etc. until they fall asleep in the end, that would be quite a music video. Keeping the LSD trip as disorganized and mind-blowing as it should be while still giving the audience enough clues as to what is really going on that they can get it would require a lot of good directing.
That is, in fact, the case with most storylines in music videos. People often have to find just the perfect clips, synch with complicated lyrics, and use a lot of complex effects to make their story recognizable. That takes a lot of work when it's done right. Such ambitious efforts should be recognized and applauded.

Thank you for your attention and posts, everyone.

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Post by DriftRoot » Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:41 am

I suppose the thing to ask is why there needs to be a separate thread for storyline - is it impossible/illogical to recommend a particular AMV because a category currently doesn't exist to accommodate it? There are series threads, genre threads and technical threads - two of those easily encompass narrative excellence. Besides, it's easy enough (and a good idea) to state why you're recommending a video in the post. If you're recommending it because it's got a great storyline, then say so.
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Post by JaddziaDax » Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:58 pm

might be a good idea for a rec thread on the forum, but i donno... perhaps good for search function?

but i don't really see it being too useful for when VCAs come around or the top 10%

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Post by pink haze » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:11 pm

In response to DriftRoot's post:

I take it you are questioning why, if one finds an AMV with an excellent storyline and wants to recommend it, one should not do the following: instead of create a new thread in the Recommended AMVs area, find a category among the existing series, genre, or technical threads that a specific video with Narrative excellence would fit in, and add it there.

The flaw in this argument stems from the fact that it only considers the point of view of one who wishes to advertise good AMVs. Advertising requires an audience or it is useless. By nature the Recommended AMVs thread exists just as much (if not more so) for those who use it to find good videos as it does for those who want to spread the word about good videos they have found. Many of the good narrative videos listed above could be (and indeed are) listed in the Recommended AMVs thread under other categories where their narrative qualities might be mentioned, but they would not all be listed together.
I got the idea for this post in the first place not because I have a list of music videos I want other people to see, but because narrative videos happen to be my favorite. I want to see more myself, so a new category in the Recommended AMVs thread would be ideal. But my personal preferences are unimportant--what matters is, does the Narrative genre merit its own category? I believe it does, and I have stated why.

Oh, and lastly:
Besides, it's easy enough (and a good idea) to state why you're recommending a video in the post.
I may as well correct this for anyone who doesn't know. It is not only "easy enough (and a good idea)," it is also required, as stated in the rules for the forum.

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Post by DriftRoot » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:48 am

pink haze wrote:In response to DriftRoot's post:

I take it you are questioning why, if one finds an AMV with an excellent storyline and wants to recommend it, one should not do the following: instead of create a new thread in the Recommended AMVs area, find a category among the existing series, genre, or technical threads that a specific video with Narrative excellence would fit in, and add it there.
I'm not questioning why, precisely, I'm questioning how "narrative excellence" fits into the current range of video types. Right now one can argue over whether a video deserves to be recommended as the best in its field, but it's much harder to argue over whether it deserves to be in the category it's placed in. You throw something like a "narrative excellence" category in there, which can be a highly subjective term, and suddenly that opens debate about what is narrative excellence on TOP of whether a video deserves to be recommended for it. As such, "narrative excellence" doesn't really seem to fit amongst the other categories - it's not a certain KIND of video..

Don't get me wrong, if a category like that was added I would be interested in what was there. I just wonder what kind of slippery slope that starts for OTHER new categories of videos.
pink haze wrote:Oh, and lastly:
Besides, it's easy enough (and a good idea) to state why you're recommending a video in the post.
I may as well correct this for anyone who doesn't know. It is not only "easy enough (and a good idea)," it is also required, as stated in the rules for the forum.
Yes, but that doesn't always happen, and it's easy for a video with a good storyline to be described in glowing terms without any reference TO storyline.
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Post by LivingFlame » Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:03 pm

But if I'm looking specifically for an AMV with a good narrative in it, why should I be relegated to skimming every other suggestion thread, praying to God that I'll find someone that was specific enough to say, "this video has a good story in it," instead of just clicking on the bright blue topic link that lets me know, up front, that the videos suggested within will have storylines, or some semblance thereof?



Holy beef taco, Batman; that's a long sentence, and probably not 100% grammatically sound...
... yea ...

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Post by pink haze » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:26 pm

In response to DriftRoot's post:
This is going to be a long one. Bear with me.

If I am correct, then you have made the following arguments:
1) A Narrative video is not really a "kind" of video, so the Narrative category does not fit in with the other categories in the Rec Forum.
2) The Narrative category is too subjective.

In response to argument 1:
From the Rules for the Rec Forum:
If you feel that there is a genre, style or popular show that would be good to have a list of recommended videos then please tell us by posting in the Site Feedback fourm.
(the spelling error exists within the original text.) Clearly, the Narrative category would not go under "popular show." That leaves "genre" and "style."

Webster defines "genre" as follows:
1: kind, sort
2: a category of artistic, musical, or literary composition characterized by a particular style, form, or content

The Dance/Upbeat category of music videos (artistic compositions) is "fun and upbeat - perhaps about dancing or good times." "Fun and upbeat" is a style; "dancing or good times" is content.
The Special Effects category of music videos is characterized by its inclusion of "masking, rotoscoping, colour manipulations, 2D and 3D original animation, image distorting, warping, morphing, transitions and so on" (content).
The Narrative category of music videos is characterized by its recognizable storyline or plot (content or form).

So a Narrative video is a legitimate genre, or a "kind" of video, and as such it would fit in with the other categories.

In response to argument 2:

Argument 2 was, I repeat, that the Narrative category is too subjective. Firstly, I will point out that some categories are subjective by nature, such as "sentimental."
From the Sentimental Videos thread in the Rec forum:
amvs that contain sentimental themes - i.e. ones that are not quite dramatic and not quite romantic. These can be sympathetic or uplifting depending on the video.
So basically you figure out whether or not a video is sentimental by how it makes you feel (or if you're lucky the creator checked "sentimental" when they uploaded it), and you determine how good a sentimental video it is by how strongly it moves you. You can't get much more subjective than that.

But this may be a moot point, for I have been attempting to define the Narrative video objectively from the beginning. In short, it is a video that was created to communicate to its audience a story, and that does so successfully (if the audience can't find a storyline, it wasn't a success).
We all watch movies--we know a plot when we see it. Whether we do it objectively or subjectively doesn't really matter as long as most of us can tell at the end of the day. Besides, usually when people intend for there to be a story in their video, they include something about it in their comments. That makes it even easier.

This is a side note, so I'll stick it at the end:
Right now one can argue over whether a video deserves to be recommended as the best in its field, but it's much harder to argue over whether it deserves to be in the category it's placed in.
To the contrary, logically it should be nigh impossible to convincingly argue that a video is the best in its field if one cannot convincingly argue that it belongs in that field at all.
Also, the category definitions at the beginning of each section of the Rec Forum help people determine what category a video falls into, if the video is not already labeled by its creator or if it is not intuitively obvious. Deciding which video you think is the best and coming up with proof requires more thought and effort.

I hope I have not misunderstood you, DriftRoot, and that I do not sound argumentative.

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