Regarding the rules ...

This forum is for the general discussion of Anime.

Regarding the rules ...

Postby Sukunai » Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:30 am

I am curious, if there is a less than obvious reason why there is a total prohibition on using downloaded anime in amvs.

I mean, I have NEVER met an anime fan that doesn't watch downloaded anime. Not one.

And we have all heard the discussions on whether it is good bad or otherwise for fans to fan sub.
And fan subbing is all about downloading anime.

Although I think we can agree, it would be mucho cool if anime went from airing, to on sale on dvd within a week of the last show of the season airing. And properly subbed (as not all of us need or like mangled dubs).

Sooo, is there a less obvious justification?

Is it that dvds render better quality content?

Because if it's about copyright, well a person can always just use downloaded dvds :)
Anime, one of the few things about the internet that doesn't make me hate the internet.
User avatar
Sukunai
 
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Location: Ontario Canada

Postby Scott Green » Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:36 am

Rules are Rules.
[size=0]and I see sense in them..... [/size]
ImageImage
Image
User avatar
Scott Green
Greenwhore
 
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Location: Austria
Status: The Dark Tower

Re: Regarding the rules ...

Postby The Origonal Head Hunter » Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:36 am

lestheanimesarge wrote:Sooo, is there a less obvious justification?

Is it that dvds render better quality content?



#1) Morals, as well as a feeling of "supporting the industry". If the studios get no money for their work, why should they continue making anime?

#2) Tend to have better visual quality as far as AMV making goes.
RonnieDaking wrote:i like my anime like I like my women, from japan and speaking english

Image
Boredom.
User avatar
The Origonal Head Hunter
The Propheteer
 
Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Location: State of Denial
Status: Hooked on a Feeling

Postby Sukunai » Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:20 pm

:)

Rules are indeed rules :)

"#1) Morals, as well as a feeling of "supporting the industry". If the studios get no money for their work, why should they continue making anime?"

I take it then, that you are a supporter of the notion fan subbing is bad?

The debate on this is of course well known.

I for one likely wouldn't be in the slightest way interested in anime in any fashion whatsoever in the absence of the fan sub scene.

I have only known one person from the tape purchase era when a VERY small few animes were available in english dub versions.

90% or higher of the anime I have seen, was watched as fan subbed first, and then bought second.

I simply don't have any interest in buying anime I have no connection to.

That HAS to have an impact on non Japanese speaking anime purchases.

I dare say, anime would not have ANY power to sell in North America, in the absence of fan subbing.
That fan subbing exists in a very quasi legal state is obvious. No argument there.
It's just that the industry can't expect to exist in a non Japanese language environment without it.

Thus, the only logical justification for the "rules" can only realistically be #2 :)
Anime, one of the few things about the internet that doesn't make me hate the internet.
User avatar
Sukunai
 
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Location: Ontario Canada

Postby wurpess » Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:15 pm

What OHH said, that and this is technically an illegal hobby. Anime and music companies could come shut us down right now if they really wanted to for copyright infringement. But, it really comes down to if they had a choice between shutting down an AMV community that supports buying all their stuff as opposed to one who illegally downloads all their stuff, they'll probably go for the one who is all about downloading all their stuff. So while making AMVs from DVDs/CDs that we bought isn't much more legal that making it from DLed material, the companies are more likely to turn a blind eye if they know they're still making money.
ImageImage
User avatar
wurpess
rabid fangirl
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Location: The happy place in my head
Status: BLAAAARGH!!!!! -_-

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:40 pm

It makes the site operators feel they are less culpable if a crackdown occurred, which makes sense. If the anime industry was to get uppity, they'd be selectively choosing who's lives to ruin and how badly those people will be taken down. You might let someone that's not actively supporting ripping you off with a slap on the wrist, but when you have people latently saying "here, fuck the industry and download this lolol" you're going to want to kick them in the throat a few times. Whether or not you personally agree or disagree is irrelevant - they'd deal with whatever public face the site is showing.
Another Anime Convention AMV Contest Coordinator 2008-2014 & Head of the AAC Fan-works Theater - follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/AACFanTheater
:sorcerer: :sorcerer: |RD: "Oh, Action!" (side-by-side) | |
User avatar
BasharOfTheAges
Just zis guy, you know?
 
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: Merrimack, NH
Status: Extreeeeeeeeeme

Postby CodeZTM » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:00 pm

x2 on Wurpy's statement.

Plus, I'd like to add that buying the footage is a lot better, as you get better visual quality as well extras that downloaded material doesn' t have.

Plus, I'd also like to add that these sites are BRILLIANT marketing sites. Sites like a-m-v.org, I mean. I know that with the exception of Neon Genesis and Chobits, every anime I have bought was due to either a suggestion from this site or from an AMV. Heck, I bought the video Game Persona III because of melle's and CopyCat's vids just last week. Plus, I've bought countless CD's from the music I've heard here.

This is why I think most companies just ignore us. :O
User avatar
CodeZTM
Spin Me Round
 
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Location: Arkansas
Status: Flapping Lips

Postby Sukunai » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:18 pm

Thanks for the input people :)

I've always looked at forums, and the one favourite rule, no child porn.

Like anyone actually wants it here. But, it's a legal thing, and every site I have ever been on has that same rule. Because to omit it, is just saying, "hey sue my ass into oblivion".

Sites "like torrent site example A" that provide downloadable anime as just one of an alphabetically sorted option from a selection of everything else under the sun, yeah no one wants to support that nonsense.

And sites that allow downloadable anime that has long since been out as retail dvd, and they don't care, well no one here is likely going to actively sponsor them as being friends of anime either.

But as was mentioned, in some many ways, what we do is basically not legal, it's just not offensive.
I have discovered more anime from amvs than I would want to try counting. And I have even been exposed to a lot of good music thanks to amvs.

So yeah, I support places like the org where we expect at least some level of standards :)

But the day that the anime industry decides to crush the fan subbers, well I guess that will be the day the mutual support dies. I hope that never happens.
Anime, one of the few things about the internet that doesn't make me hate the internet.
User avatar
Sukunai
 
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Location: Ontario Canada

Postby Autraya » Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:33 pm

lestheanimesarge wrote:But the day that the anime industry decides to crush the fan subbers, well I guess that will be the day the mutual support dies. I hope that never happens.
that's already happened actually, and it's why the smart fan-sub sites only sub unlicenced anime :\ and will often stop part way through a series if there is a licence obtained.

Also until late last year, I never downloaded ANY anime. That's why I maintained a large network of friends/contacts that share dvd's (and their informed opinions on the series) with each other or visited china town. Not being part of any "anime societies' usually populated by uni students who cant organise a fuck in a brothel, and I actually have a life so spending 3 hours every friday night being subjected to random episodes of shitty new series is not really of any interest to me.

I do download series to see if I like them now, but I always edit from DVD. I'm also a hoarder and seem to collect things tho >.<
new banzors in the making :p
User avatar
Autraya
Zero Punctuation
 
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Location: Terra Australis
Status: old

Postby Sukunai » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:15 am

Myself, I'm massively spoiled, and I know it.

I have a friend, that is single, wants to be single, works as a high paid tradesman, lives at home with parents (yes insert generic joke here :) ) and buys anime with almost no apprehension.

I get to see a great deal of anime :)

I also have truly unlimited broadband, and a kicking newsgroup option (I pay for this, is ain't free).

I watch any damn anime I want, and there really is nothing to prevent me from seeing it.

But if anime was marketed on dvd, subbed only, but subbed well (so it wasn't hard to read off the computer), and sold economically (I don't think ANYthing is worth 40 bucks a disk including anime), as well as sold in more locations than random rare oriental businesses (I don't consider random disks in an HMV as a reliable notion), I'd be a lot more willing to invest in it.

Why SHOULD the fans bend over backwards, just so they could be screwed over backwards?
Supply and demand. Only rule that counts.
If we don't need em, they need to make us want them.

Currently, any interested person can download from the net, and stream content from the computer to the tv. It just requires the person to buy the right cables.
Cables usually cost less than a couple of anime dvds :) Its not an expensive prospect :)

So it comes down to, what are they planning to offer us as a reason to buy the dvd? No one does anything without a reason.

Judging from the state of affairs with anime on dvd in North America, it appears round 2 is over. The initial dvd years are over. The process fumbled.
They need to rethink how to market to a market that can settle for fan subbed anime easily obtained with a computer.
Anime, one of the few things about the internet that doesn't make me hate the internet.
User avatar
Sukunai
 
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Location: Ontario Canada

Postby Immorrel » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:14 am

While I agree that having to pay $30 for a couple of episodes on an anime is silly, a little patiences sees you to the thin-paks that get you what you want for a reasonable price. Also buying anime is only a click away. There is no need to visit an actual store hoping they have what you want, and usually you'll get a better price than you would if you went to a store. So while your argument is relatively true, it's also full of holes.
You also are ignoring the fact that as many people wait for a dubbed version of a series as will go online to get a fansubbed version. They prefer to watch the anime as opposed to reading it (as my girlfriend puts it), and it's that portion of the population that truly supply the demand for anime on DVD in the US.
And finally we come full circle to Wurpess' argument. The Org would be much more likely to get axed if we supported the download of fansubs, instead of the use of legally procured DVDs. So while you're free to enjoy the fansubs (a lot of people do, myself included) we try and play nice so everybody (industry and otaku) can enjoy anime (or the money you get from selling it).
User avatar
Immorrel
 
Joined: 23 May 2003
Location: Here and There (KS currently)
Status: Mad Lib by association

Postby Sukunai » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:15 pm

Good post Immorrel

Yeah, sadly I am just old enough, I am still not accustomed to buying things online :)

I've done it, it's just not natural for me :)

I'd love to get manga. Don't actually hate the stuff.
And I would rather pay 10 bucks for a manga novel, that 3 bucks for a modern comic book. One is much larger, and more interesting, the other is just a few flimsy pages with colour.

The org might be taking the wise choice. Can't fault a choice that is safe.

And I am currently wondering just what is going to happen with retail anime in North America. I am not of the opinion that buying online is always "easy".
I like to buy online from Canadian or US locations to a point.
But anime is already pretty pricey.

Does anyone have any online retail locations they wish to promote?
No I already know of Amazon, and I have zero interest in eBay.
If I want to get a questionable dvd, I'll just download it.
I'm asking for commercial locations YOU have bought from.
Anime, one of the few things about the internet that doesn't make me hate the internet.
User avatar
Sukunai
 
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Location: Ontario Canada

Postby Kevmaster » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:33 pm

The Only fan subbs I watch is hentai, because I'm not legal age to get the dvd's yet |:

I refuse to watch any other fan subbs, I usually get an anime that seems good on DVD and watch it on DVD (mostly for quality reasons).
Kevmaster
Eisenbahnmörser
 
Joined: 28 May 2006

Postby CerebralAssamite » Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:08 pm

I find sub's to be very similar to myspace music streams, althought you can download it (or find another way of doing it if it's not available directly on their page) and listen to it, it's just a sample of the entire album.

I'll be the first to admitt I have downloaded entire music albums.. and my fair share too, however I do purchase the album's that I believe are worth purchasing to support not only the band but he industry. The album's I believe are not worth purchasing? Well their mostly likly just shit, thus I may listen to their next album but it's more on the backburner..

Similar to Sub's, I'm currently watching Naruto and Bleach, Naruto is what I'd call a one off.. it's the shit album that's worth a listen then delete.. thats just me though.

Bleach IMO *See the IMO* is better than Naruto, I'd definetly purchase a gigantic bootlegged copy for $300 with every episode when its finished.. just to support the Asian community :P

I'd buy the box set to support the anime.. it's up to you though, if its not worth it don't get it, no one is forcing you, however if it is worth it, do support the company and buy the fucking product you cheap bastards.
User avatar
CerebralAssamite
 
Joined: 12 Jun 2004
Location: You Mean You Care?

Postby ShatteredFlame » Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:12 pm

I would never buy an anime that I haven't watched >.>. Who would? I prefer downloading it as HQ .MKV fan-sub to see if I like it, then if I liked the anime enough to buy it, I would. I would be pissed if I spent money on an anime DVD that I haven't watched and I wound up hating it >.>. So fan-subs should be legal >={
User avatar
ShatteredFlame
 
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Location: New York

Next

Return to General Anime

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests