AMV top 10% - rules

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Postby FirestormXIII » Wed Oct 23, 2002 10:39 pm

Heh, I just recently changed my rating system for reviews so that 5 is average.
Poor Wuwu, he was the first victim... :O
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Postby UncleMilo » Thu Oct 24, 2002 12:47 am

The Top 10% is not some holy text passed down from on high.

First off... I've seen REAL VIDEOS placed on the list (such as ON YOUR MARK)... and for anyone to believe that the On Your Mark AMV is second fiddle to ANY AMV ON THIS BOARD needs to be slapped for 24 hours with herring... for starters.


Secondly, I have seen people do exactly what you have said... they make a POS AMV and then have friends give it all 10s and suddenly BANG! It's on the top 10. Now... I'm so happy for them as they sit at their monitors with massive hard ons because they think their position on that top 10 means ANYTHING... but most right-thinking people know that this stuff happens and should just deal.

And again... as ERMAC pointed out... some ass will come along and give your AMV a crappy review because they don't like you... or because your AMV scored higher than theirs... or because they are stupid...

I don't claim to be a master of AMV creations, but I have been hit with some ridiculous reviews. I got one guy who took revenge on me because I didn't just praise his AMV to the heavens (and my review was far from derogatory) and then I got one review from someone who I SWEAR must not have seen my AMV because none of his comments made sense... I can only assume he wanted to lower the score on my AMV or he had run out of smack and was just going ape-sh*t all over the boards.


The Top 10% is mostly meaningless. You can't demand rules on something that is so arbitrary. Obviously, good AMVs are able to hold spots there... but anyone who thinks that the top 10 really represents anything is in for a reality check of the 4th order.



OK... and let's look at those votes. People seem to have very different views on what that 1-10 scale means.

I saw someone post how they gave this AMV 6s because it was "OK" but not great.

However, I consider 6 to be a "poor" rating and 7 as "average"

So even the numbers have different meaning to people.


Let's face it...

the creation of AMVs is art and I believe most people get frustrated with art because it can't be graded on a chart (which confounds all these computer guys who think they can program a computer to create art)

Art is not mathematical

Some art is good and some is bad...
One piece will wow one person and repel another...

One person will see a piece of art and say it looks like it was done by a 3rd grader while another will see it and gasp in awe at the complexity.

Art is frustrating to me because I have a hard time explaining it to people who think it needs to be graphed and quantified so everyone can know what is good art and what is bad art.

I mean... some kid watches a Linkin Park DBZ AMV and thinks its the greatest thing he's ever seen. It inspires him to make AMVs...

Does that make the AMV a great piece of art?
Well... it does to that kid.

Everyone else hates the same vid.
Does that make the AMV a piece of crap?

Not to that one kid who was inspired
and not to that one kid who made it.

I hope ERMAC doesn't mind me bringing him into this example... but say ERMAC says the DBZ AMV is crap...

most people will take ERMAC's word over the kid's... why? because ERMAC has displayed that he has more knowledge of the artform of AMVs and so his word has more weight.

Therefore, people in the AMV community will agree that the DBZ AMV is not a very strong piece as far as AMVs go...

but that doesn't mean the kid is wrong. It inspired him and it really got him... so he will see it as great art and his view is valid in the realm of his own life...

however... individual view and community view are not the same thing... and sometimes individual view is more important than the community view...


Well... I'm rambling... but maybe I got my point across.

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Postby trythil » Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:20 am

UncleMilo wrote:Art is not mathematical


[pedantic mode = on]

Correction. Art can be mathematical in nature.

A few examples:

Visual: Joseph Pollack's drip-paintings have been shown to be fractal in nature, which may explain why they have been regarded so highly. Helaman Ferguson's sculptures are physical embodiments of mathematical relationships. M.C. Escher -- well, that's obvious. Benoit Mandelbrot, if you consider fractals things of beauty.

Music is mathematics.

Pleasant smells can be quantiatively described in terms of molecular reactions using mathematics. Same goes for taste: mathematically mapping the path, magnitude, and location of "pleasant" taste stimuli.

Mathematically determining the quality of art is a different story. For now.

[pedantic mode = off]
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Postby Ashton » Thu Oct 24, 2002 3:28 am

Oh! Now I get it! And all this time I had been creating my AMV on the computer, when I should have been making them in an oven so that they could be more mathematicly pleaseing! Hold on, I'm going to go add some oregano and basil to to an old video of mine; I SMELL A REMASTERED EDITION COMING!
No, but seriously, that was pretty cool, I've got to hand it Trythil, you handed UncleMilo his ass on that one. But I still think you missed UM's point(pedantic to the point of being anal regarding word usage!), which I agree with wholy. The point is that this is an opinion based thing, and that it all can't be nailed down to numbers anyway. I'm sure you know what he really meant.
But I do have to disagree with you on something UM, I think that to say that there is no common thread on enjoyable AMV is incorrect. That's the whole idea of providing numbers with the reviews. But I do think there is an idea there. Maybe it's the numbers themselves that are causing the stress on the system. What if all the numbers were removed. I mean ALL of them; we could even remove the post counter which has succesfully driven the forum into the ground and brought the morality and decency of it's users with it.
Food for thought...
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Re: AMV top 10% - rules

Postby Sub0 » Thu Oct 24, 2002 12:20 pm

Nappy wrote:well I think we are going on a C=75%=7.5 score=average hehe a 5 average would a be a F average :P


correct in a competitive market one must stay above average making the average product above average therefor the average would be redefined to a bit above the mid-line.
School=teh competitive
AMVs=teh it's up to you so it really doesn't matter, reviews are just there for fun, unless you want to make it competitive than... well... Idunno what I'm saying but it did make sense at first!
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Postby Fluxmeister » Thu Oct 24, 2002 8:08 pm

ErMaC wrote:...Or why not leave a review that's all 1's to f@#$ with them? :)


Nahhhh ErMaC... how about the score that I bet no video has ever received... Average! All 5's! :shock:

:roll:
I have sinned. I made a video I wanted to make that was music + anime + sync + action + effects/transitions. Oh lordy. :roll:
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Postby Rozard » Thu Oct 24, 2002 10:12 pm

I've received close to all 5s :?
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Postby UncleMilo » Thu Oct 24, 2002 10:17 pm

Trythil - You completely missed my point.

YES... music has a mathmatical element... but unless you can show me the formula that determines a song is good or bad SHUT UP.

Marketers will use $ as a math formula, but please. If you want to go by $, then you must believe that N'Sink (yes, I know it's spelled wrong) is a more artistic band than Peter Gabriel and for that matter, that Titanic is a more artistic movie than Koyaanisqatsi. However, I only made that point so you didn't start some whole art and commerse tangent.

My argument is that the appretiation of art can not be measured on a chart or graph and you tried to make my statement apply to a topic that I wasn't even refering to (remember... I was talking about the numerical votres on the quyality of AMVs and my example was about the impact of an AMV on another...


Please pay attention to what people are saying unless just being so eager to get in a confrontation that you just rant for the sake of ranting.

I don't know why Ashton thinks you handed me my ass, when you don't even seem to know where your own is.

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Postby jonmartensen » Thu Oct 24, 2002 10:18 pm

I'm average :D :) :? :oops: :( :x :evil: :twisted:
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Postby Cailet730 » Thu Oct 24, 2002 10:55 pm

I guess I (almost) understand the need for almost everything to be "graded". By nature, so many people increasingly feel the need to quantify every little thing they can.... In fact, it is rarer to find things in this world that are not given a numerical ranking - no matter how much of a stretch must be made to assign a number than those that are left alone. Perhaps it is a byproduct of the increasing scientific analysis within our country (people seem to me less tolerant of ambiguity - they want hard, decisive facts and that typically means a numerical value. Is it good or not??? 1 or 10???) perhaps is it a product of competitiveness, whatever...

But that's not really what I wanted to say....

The numbers are good and all - hey, it's very flattering whenever someone gives a 9 or 10 - but I barely give them a passing glance. (Well, low effort marks sometimes make me grumpy). Afterall, they are just so subjective and depend on many variables including what personal rating scheme the person used, how many vids they've seen, personal taste, etc. It's the text within the opinions that I really value. I love it when someone notices a little detail that I worked particularly hard on or am proud of. I also pay very much (if not the most) attention to the "Bad Points" section. It is here where I find myself learning what not to do on my next project and what I could do better. Such comments are invaluable, which is why I am so incredibly grateful when someone actually takes the time to review.

Just my 2 cents.
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Postby Garylisk » Fri Oct 25, 2002 12:30 am

FirestormXIII wrote:Heh, I just recently changed my rating system for reviews so that 5 is average.
Poor Wuwu, he was the first victim... :O


*headbangs* Glad someone else out there is doing it besides me! I am tired of AMV creators getting annoyed at my reviews because they got an 8! It's like "Ummmm... 5 is average, 8 is well above average, what the hell were you expecting? A 10? Hah! You're no Kevin Caldwell, sir!" :P

(DISCLAIMER: That last statement was not meant to insult any of the people I've done reviews for. Garylisk is not liable for his words. :P )
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Postby ladydx » Fri Oct 25, 2002 1:12 am

I've gotten 8's and 7's on my vids and done the happy dance that I got those cause I didn't really expect it :)
When I review..*glares at Roz* and yes...I DO reveiw...I give out scores based on how I think they should be given...wether it be a 1 for orginalilty and a 9 for something else...I go by what I think the video deserves...and yes it's late..and yes..I'm rambling...*wanders off*
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Postby Rozard » Fri Oct 25, 2002 10:07 am

WHERE'S MY REVIEW!!! :evil: :P

The :? in my previous post was directed more at Fluxy's statement that he bets no video has received straight 5s, and I was just saying I've gotten close. I didn't mean to say I thought it was undeserving.

For instance, for my Wicked Mix video (it sucks, download it :twisted: ) WuWu gave me six 9s, a 7 and a 5 :shock: X 10000

Whereas for the same video, Garylisk gave me a 6, two 5s, four 4s, and a 2. That's a bit more accurate a review for that video.
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Postby bloodyfang » Fri Oct 25, 2002 6:22 pm

god i hated wicked mix so bad.

the song got on my nerves ×_×
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Postby EarthCurrent » Wed Nov 06, 2002 10:07 am

Bah...if you look at a lot of the names on the top 10 list you see the same names cropping up over and over again. If you are in the know, you soon realize that a lot of them all run in the same circles, have the same home cons, etc. In most ways the top 10% list is little more than a list of the "Ol' Boys Club." The disagreement we are seeing as to the legitimacy of the ranking is merely a result of the favoritism amongst certain creators who, as favors, give each other high reviews for past good reviews on their own videos. They do so regardless of the actual quality of the video they are reviewing, as they are seemingly fearful of giving an honest review because they themselves might recieve an honest review in "retaliation".

God forbid that people actually start taking some time and effort to decide if a video really deserves a 10.

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