Vegas: Screwy renders

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Vegas: Screwy renders

Postby CrackTheSky » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:27 am

This is driving me up the wall.

For some reason, Vegas has decided that whenever I want to render a loop (haven't tried not looping anything, though I imagine it wouldn't make a difference), the video comes out looking like this:
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This looks TERRIBLE when the video is in motion. I cannot for the life of me figure out why this is happening. This actually happens quite a bit, but there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it.

My export settings are the same as I've always used, and those are the same as the settings spelled out in EADFAG. I've tried every possible combination of lossless codecs, frame rates, etc. and I STILL get that stupid ghosting effect. I've tried disabling motion blur on each of my video tracks. Nothing seems to work.

I've tried rendering that crap out and the attempting to fix it with AviSynth. That hasn't turned out so well.

I'm at a complete loss. The codec of the source clip doesn't make any difference - I've tried it uncompressed and with Lagarith, and I assume HuffYUV won't change anything either.

My project settings match up with my export settings, and both of those match up with my clip properties. I've tried changing everything just to see if maybe it'd make a difference, but to no avail.

Does ANYONE have any idea how this could be rectified?

For what it's worth, the clip in question was rendered out from AE, but it's not exclusive to this clip so I don't imagine that makes a difference either...
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Postby -GfN- » Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:26 am

since you already checked the individual clip properties, I'm not sure but try to disable the resample option in the properties of each clip.
That used to give me unwanted ghosting in whatever clip I put in vegas, even without altering it with velocity etc.
hope that helps crackerz ;)

~Jannis
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Postby Kristyrat » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:00 am

-Good for Nothing- wrote:since you already checked the individual clip properties, I'm not sure but try to disable the resample option in the properties of each clip.
That used to give me unwanted ghosting in whatever clip I put in vegas, even without altering it with velocity etc.
hope that helps crackerz ;)

~Jannis


x2, otherwise it might be an issue arising from the framerate of the source (or even the animation of the source as well) and the respective framerate or any changes you used in After Effects or Vegas
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Postby CrackTheSky » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:55 am

-Good for Nothing- wrote:since you already checked the individual clip properties, I'm not sure but try to disable the resample option in the properties of each clip.
That used to give me unwanted ghosting in whatever clip I put in vegas, even without altering it with velocity etc.
hope that helps crackerz ;)

~Jannis

Oh my God, that did the trick. Thank you SO MUCH GfN, I am in your debt :D
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Postby -GfN- » Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:15 am

np np :o

~Jannis
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^_^

Postby Kero777 » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:13 pm

I'm glad this question was asked! I recently noticed very slight blurring or extra motion when there is a lot of movement in my clips. -Good for Nothing- and Kristyrat, do you think "loop" and "resampling" should always be unchecked? I'm actually not quite sure what they mean or when/if I should ever use them. I'm so oblivious about this subject. (Lol) Thank you! :D

(I also noticed a "reduce interlace flicker" option. That might come in handy if I ever have to use interlaced footage. Yay!) :P
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Re: ^_^

Postby -GfN- » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:24 pm

Kero777 wrote:I'm glad this question was asked! I recently noticed very slight blurring or extra motion when there is a lot of movement in my clips. -Good for Nothing- and Kristyrat, do you think "loop" and "resampling" should always be unchecked? I'm actually not quite sure what they mean or when/if I should ever use them. I'm so oblivious about this subject. (Lol) Thank you! :D

(I also noticed a "reduce interlace flicker" option. That might come in handy if I ever have to use interlaced footage. Yay!) :P


I'd advise strongly against deinterlacing in nle's and the like. do that via virtualdubmod. as for the resample, unless you're using velocity I don't see any reasons why you should activate it, as it really produces ghosting as if there's no tomorrow and if your footage has been prepared properly, there shouldn't be any trouble...

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Postby JaddziaDax » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:42 pm

I'll keep this in mind for the project after the next O.o
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Re: ^_^

Postby Kero777 » Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:34 am

-Good for Nothing- wrote:I'd advise strongly against deinterlacing in nle's and the like. do that via virtualdubmod. as for the resample, unless you're using velocity I don't see any reasons why you should activate it, as it really produces ghosting as if there's no tomorrow and if your footage has been prepared properly, there shouldn't be any trouble...

~Jannis


I appreciate the suggestion, Jannis! Thank you! I don't think I ever will have to use interlaced footage because of how helpful the guide is. I think from now on I will also click the "Bypass motion blur" button on each track I'm going to be using. I am still having loads of trouble trying to figure out how to get the frame rate changed in Avisynth while still having the video lined up with my effects and music (like it says in the guide) instead of just changing the frame rate in Vegas. I will hopefully figure it out soon. Again, thank you very much for answering my questions! :D
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Re: ^_^

Postby CrackTheSky » Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:43 pm

Kero777 wrote:Frame rate stuff.

Try changing the frame rate of your clips BEFORE you start editing. De-interlacing automatically converts the video (assuming you're using NTSC) to 23.97 fps.
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Re: ^_^

Postby Scintilla » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:13 pm

CrackTheSky wrote:<b>Inverse telecining</b> automatically converts the video (assuming you're using NTSC) to 23.97<b>6</b> fps.

Fixed. Deinterlacing doesn't do jack to the frame rate.
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Re: ^_^

Postby Kero777 » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:21 pm

CrackTheSky wrote:Try changing the frame rate of your clips BEFORE you start editing.


I apologize if I sound stupid asking this, but I'm very confused: If I change the frame rate of my footage before I edit, it either speeds the clips up or slows them down. Well, that definitely makes sense, but how do I edit with it? I'm not really sure how to edit with the footage if it's slower or faster because a character could be running in slow motion, for example. I could speed the clip up, but it wouldn't be accurate (or would take a very long time to get that way), the audio would be very mis-matched with the video or sped up/slowed down as well and wouldn't that just be changing the frame rate again? *Scratches head* I did a lot of experimenting with this in the past couple of days and it doesn't seem to make sense.

Taifunbrowser was very kind and explained a little of this to me before, but I wasn't sure what s/he meant:

Taifunbrowser wrote:the trick is to follow the guides on this site for preparing your footage, then frameserve with vfapi to vegas.


If someone could please try to help me out with this, I'd be very grateful. :D Hehe, I really wish I could get the hang of all this. You're all so smart! *Nods head*
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Re: ^_^

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:44 pm

Kero777 wrote:
CrackTheSky wrote:Try changing the frame rate of your clips BEFORE you start editing.


I apologize if I sound stupid asking this, but I'm very confused: If I change the frame rate of my footage before I edit, it either speeds the clips up or slows them down. Well, that definitely makes sense, but how do I edit with it? I'm not really sure how to edit with the footage if it's slower or faster because a character could be running in slow motion, for example. I could speed the clip up, but it wouldn't be accurate (or would take a very long time to get that way), the audio would be very mis-matched with the video or sped up/slowed down as well and wouldn't that just be changing the frame rate again? *Scratches head* I did a lot of experimenting with this in the past couple of days and it doesn't seem to make sense.


Ideally you change the fps to what you want to export as before you edit. I don't see where any problems would arise with the speed of the clips within the finished project - you can speed up and slow down clips in your editing program whenever you want and that has nothing to do with the fps of your finished video or the project itself. Changing the speed of clips (again, not the same thing as the fps) within your NLE to fit the audio is done all the time.
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Re: ^_^

Postby Scintilla » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:46 pm

Kero777 wrote:
CrackTheSky wrote:Try changing the frame rate of your clips BEFORE you start editing.


I apologize if I sound stupid asking this, but I'm very confused: If I change the frame rate of my footage before I edit, it either speeds the clips up or slows them down.

Not if you're inverse telecining. What IVTC does is to restore the original progressive frames (many series were originally animated at 24 fps) and remove the duplicates. You end up with fewer frames than before, but whatever's going on in the video will still be happening at the same speed.

More on that <a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/avtech/video2_2.htm">here</a>.
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Re: ^_^

Postby Kero777 » Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:35 pm

Scintilla wrote:
Kero777 wrote:
CrackTheSky wrote:Try changing the frame rate of your clips BEFORE you start editing.


I apologize if I sound stupid asking this, but I'm very confused: If I change the frame rate of my footage before I edit, it either speeds the clips up or slows them down.

Not if you're inverse telecining. What IVTC does is to restore the original progressive frames (many series were originally animated at 24 fps) and remove the duplicates. You end up with fewer frames than before, but whatever's going on in the video will still be happening at the same speed.

More on that <a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/avtech/video2_2.htm">here</a>.


Thanks, BasharOfTheAges and Scintilla. :)

Inverse telecining seems like the way to go (much better than slowing the clips down before editing and then trying to match up their original speed :P). I need to look up how to do this more. It seems complicated, but highly worth it when it comes to visual quality. Those comparison pictures... wow.
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