Project Editor Exit Survey

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Project Editor Exit Survey

Postby CodeZTM » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:36 am

While we wait for the results of the judging the final round, I felt it was that time again to open up the exit survey.

You may post it publicly here in the forum, or send it to my pm box privately. Furthermore, you do not have to be a participant to fill out the survey. The contest audience and potential contestants in future contests are always welcome to fill this out.

I will read every comment made, and I will do within the best of my power to improve future contests as the majority informs me of. I cannot promise that all comments/suggestions can be utilized, but I will at least listen!

_____________

1) As far as the "team" experience goes, would you like to see another project editor (not season 3) utilize teamwork, or should it remain an individual experience?

2) This was the first project editor to utilize a "bracket" system instead of the usual "elimination" system. Of the two, which did you most prefer, and which would you like to see utilized more often?

3) Themes are of vital important to the contest, as they are the backbone of the system. What is your opinion on the themes this season? What kind of themes would you like to see more of? If you could recommend a theme for season 3 and beyond, what would it be?

4) Time restrictions and deadlines are always a concern, especially due to multiple time zones across the world. If given a chance, would you prefer a softer deadline system, allowing for users to upload to me after the "deadline", in observance of time differences, if a similar consideration is given to users in the same time zone as myself?

5) What is your ideal type of judge you would like to see in Project Editor? Blind/Public? One that leaves comments and takes time, or one that gets results more quickly but has no commentary?

6) What is something in this contest that you thought was best executed this year?

7) What is something in this contest that you thought was worst executed this year?

8) Is there a particular rule/restriction that you would like to see added to future contests?

9) Is there a particular rule/restriction that you would like to see removed from future contests?

10) Would you like to see old themes recycled in the future (assuming enough time is given between the contests they are used in)?

11) Anything not covered above? Explain it to me here!


-----

Thanks!

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Re: Project Editor Exit Survey

Postby ProjectBarcodeError » Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:09 pm

Ok then. I base my survey on mostly the TTT and quickening.

1- I remember someone, in the french quickening, who proposed than the next one, in the last round, editors could recruit former contestants and make a mep. That way, it hepls the previous and active contenders to keep an eye on the contest even if they lost. I think it could be a good idea for POE S3 or Quickening 3.0, maybe ?

2- I don't mind both. But i think it would be nice to give a "second chance" on the first round, if you keep the bracket system. That way, I think we could have a lot more of good and serious contenders for the rest of the rounds. For example: The first Round of TTT "Wake up versus The Cake Factory". that duel was between top-tiers in a matter of points, but one had to stop his tournament. Besides, if we have bigger brackets at round 1, you could easily "save" a team who had good points to replace a team/duel that dropped.

Example ( first two of a group goes to next round):
Group A - Group B
82 - 78
80 - drop
75 - drop
69 - drop


that way, you could easily propose to the one who got "75" to continue the tournament, and avoid contestants without opponents for the next round.

3- I have no suggestions at the moment ( i may edit later). But maybe having a "viewers decide" a song or a music band ? Of course, troll sounds would be removed. And it would help a bit the viewers participation.

4- It could be good. About the deadline system, I propose you offer a "1-day late proposal": some editors wait for last minute to render and finalise their projects, but a sudden problem (work calling, pc crash, codec problem, lack of communication) can arrive. By offering a 1-day extend, you could avoid drops at the last minute. Adding a 5%-10% penalty could be interesting, in order to give respect for those who give on time.

5- Up to the judge to decide. Personnaly, i prefer having a decent commentary of judges. But i propose you show a public deadline for the judgment. It would avoid us to keep asking question "when will results come?" when one judge trolls everyone.

6- Play of words with results and the poster show/contest. Add a lot more of color and personnalisation. And that can interesteds graphists too

7- Undetermined date for results. especially in semi-finals.

9-Not yet

10- I dunno

11- The first Quickening had a cool thing for everybody for non-editors, if we have a "bracket-style" Org Editor : A (free) bet system. Any non-participant on the POE can join. Every gets a fixed amount of points (let's say 100). then, at each round, they bet these points on an editor they think that will win. Each duel will have a odd base on the the challengings rivals (decided by a beta admin or group).

The one who have the most points at the end of the Org Editor wins it (maybe a amazon gift card ?).
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Re: Project Editor Exit Survey

Postby Zanzaben » Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:32 pm

Well I will go down your list and Answer the ones I have an answer for

1) I very much enjoyed the team experience and would like to see it done again

2) I thought the bracket system was interesting and kinda cool however I personally will say that it was really really annoying when the person who eliminated me then dropped out. I know that people dropping out is inevitable but that single aspect of it somewhat makes me want to never do bracket style again even though it is overall pretty fun to be going against just one other person.

3) The themes where hit and miss, I really liked the AMV hell one but the shipping one caused a lot of confusion but overall there where more hits then misses

4) Well since I live on the east coast time dealines where never a real issue for me but one team getting an extra couple of hours doesn't seem like that big a deal when it is considered over a 1 or 2 week period.

5) I have no opinion in blind vs public but I very much prefer waiting a couple of extra days to get comments about each video. However I think it is important to have a specific time when judging comes out so people aren't always asking when the results come out.

10) I am not a huge fan of having recycled themes but it is not the end of the world for me.
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Re: Project Editor Exit Survey

Postby xPauChan » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:10 am

1) I really love teamwork so I'd like some more stuff that includs it ! 8D

2) I personally prefer the elimination system.

4) To be honest, not really.

5) I do like the idea of blind judging but I'm fine with both, and I think I'd rather have comments than quicker results.

10) Yep, I actually liked this idea. i felt too many themes were recycled in PE:TTT but I do really like the idea.
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Re: Project Editor Exit Survey

Postby MycathatesyouAMV » Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:48 pm

1.) If that's what others want, then go for it, but I am personally interested in non-team contests.
2.) The bracket system is intense and all, but I would rather see elimination rounds as it's unfair if two of the better teams go against each other early on as I saw in this tournament.
3.) I was glad to see no source restriction round in this PE, imo it is either not amusing to participate in, or we see a less quality of entries. I'd like to see the return of the make a video about yourself theme.
4.) I think that extensions should be given to those in different time zones.
5.) I prefer comments
6.) It was pretty organized
7.) The elimination system
8.) Alot of people tend to drop in project editor. I think that in the current round, all contestants eliminated in the previous round should be able to make entrees, and the highest scoring videos of the eliminated editors have a chance to replace others in the contest that dropped in that round.
9.) Unsure
10.) Sure
11.) You should tax the winners
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Re: Project Editor Exit Survey

Postby Taite » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:01 pm

1) If I ever wanted to participate, I'd want the individual experience, because editing with people, on the whole, is a miserable experience for me. I also enjoy the videos that come out of the individual PE much more, since people are drug down so much when working in a team. That's just a personal thing, and I'd likely never participate, but I like the idea of seeing more of both in the future, maybe every other year flip it or something? Everyone has their own preference, like editing solo, but some really like teams, so I like the idea of switching it every year or something.

2) As I'd likely never participate, I don't care. As a viewer, it makes no difference to me, I just watch it for the videos. :? However, the bracket system is nice because it puts two/three people against each other, and it's more competitive to me that way (for both the editors as well as a spectator, betting on who'll win and looking forward to future face-offs.)

3) All of the themes in round one were genius, but the color one was ridiculous, as well as the seven deadly sins, good vs evil one in round 2, and survival theme. These are similar in that they're very black and white and just boring overall. It invites people to think outside the box, but I didn't see that on any of them. On the whole though, I loved the themes. They were very atypical from what I typically see of Tournaments, like on youtube. I love the anime/manga mix one, the pick a video from the top 10%, make an amv that leads up to/follows another amv, etc. Other than the ones I mentioned before, everything else I adored. I think that for the next contest I'd like to see the editors/viewers/people on the org come up with themes and vote on one, which won't be revealed until the contest itself where it will debut in round 1/2/3, whatever. I just like things that engage everyone, not just those participating, and this would be a nice way to do that.
Perhaps too much to coordinate however, I'm not sure? :uhoh: I don't know if you already get a lot of ideas from other people or just come up with them all yourself.

4) No. Everyone gets the same amount of time to edit. If the deadline is 12:00 am at whatever timezone and you have to turn it in by 3am for your timezone, but have to go to bed by 12 since you have work at 6, taking 3 hours away from time you could have worked on your video, then too bad. Maybe you should have thought about whether or not you should have entered the contest. Also, if you really want to be a part of it, then you'll find the time. Don't procrastinate on your stuff. (This is one reason I hate team versions, because some people will get "busy" and not end up editing until way later, making their part worse, and blahblahblah, all sorts of things.)
So definitely no for me. Everyone gets 72 hours or something, done.

5) If I see another blind judge I'm going to shoot myself. I don't understand the purpose at all. I want to know if the judges are reliable. And if there's going to be drama or accusations of a judge being biased when they're revealed, etc, then so be it. Judges need to be held reliable for their comments and be able to defend their point of view. Bringing me to the comments, they should be a must. Judges should be able to leave decent critique that explains fully any highs/lows in their scoring, etc. For a judge to give someone say a 5/10 on effects and not explain themselves is inconsiderate to the editor that may not know why they were eliminated. It's also confusing to the viewers, like myself, that are wondering how the hell someone moved on/didn't.
If it takes more time, so be it, but I think if you're going to be a judge and part of the contest you ought to be able to give comments within a decent length of time. 3 days is too late for me, when people have moved on to the next round likely.
They obviously should be level-headed and good at giving critique, which I think a lot of people are, but sometimes it's hard to tell when you look at the AMV Announcements and see 1/20 comments having any kind of substance in them. However, I think I trust Code to choose the best of the best. but I don't like seeing blind judges ever.

6) Themes, most definitely. Very creative. Keep it up. :)

7) Judges comments/explanation of scoring/blind judges.

8) I didn't pay too much attention. But definitely a strict deadline, if there wasn't.

9) Nope.

10) A few (see #3), but some were great. Another thing could be to let people vote on their favorite 3 themes of this year, and the top 3 go into the next PE or something. Still, more new ones than old.

11- The first Quickening had a cool thing for everybody for non-editors, if we have a "bracket-style" Org Editor : A (free) bet system. Any non-participant on the POE can join. Every gets a fixed amount of points (let's say 100). then, at each round, they bet these points on an editor they think that will win. Each duel will have a odd base on the the challengings rivals (decided by a beta admin or group).

I actually quite like this idea. I'd love to see more participation by just viewers like myself (not in anything serious like voting on a winner, that's best left to the judges to me (if they're qualified.))
Slightly confused about the wording, but I'd love to bet on people haha. Only thing is, I don't think editors should be able to see any of this, because it's disheartening to someone whom no one bet on. That's what makes this idea complicated. You'd somehow have to make it private, have people register, etc. A google docs maybe? I don't know, I'm not into that stuff. But if it's too much, then I'd prefer just the contest. That'd be a lot for one person, or even several, to coordinate, unless you could find one person to work solely with that.

Overall, great as usual. :up:
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Re: Project Editor Exit Survey

Postby MystykAMV » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:34 am

1) Sure, why not?

2) Elimination

3) I think there were some original themes, and there were some unoriginal ones, for example, I didn't like good vs evil, it's kind of too "easy" and not challenging enough, but as I said there were many themes I liked a lot (for example mangaxanime fusion), also RFTP is quite mysterious which makes the theme more interesting.

4) If given a chance, would you prefer a softer deadline system, allowing for users to upload to me after the "deadline", in observance of time differences, if a similar consideration is given to users in the same time zone as myself?

Yes.

5) I don't mind either, it can be both blind of public, both has advantaged and disadvantages. It would be better if they left comments, if they do so, I think people wouldn't mind the judges being blind, but it might be just my opinion ^^"

10) I'm not sure what you mean by this, but if you mean same them but with small changed, then I say no, because it is probably more fun if people haven't done it yet.
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Re: Project Editor Exit Survey

Postby MimS » Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:31 am

I always wondered why you chosed to hide who judges were Code though most of people on org skype knew I was one of them, I actuallynever tried to hide it myself, sorry if I should have. But the point is, it's not the judge that shouldn't be known but who made which video imho for the simple reason that I don't want people to think I give higher scores to one particular team 'cause I get along well with its members while it will never be truth.
About the developed critics, I'm actually the only judge who did give OPs on every single video since the very beginning (well, not done with the final yet but I've seen the vid already, will do it later in the day) but I don't think you should force us to do it. You were right leaving us the choices. I know how harsh it can be for editors to have bad marks without understanding why and that's also why I think judges should be announced. That way, if editors really received a mark they don't get by a judge who didn't develop, they still can explain in private the reason behind this mark.

Also...
Do you really think you can't do POE without themes? ^^"
More than the fact that I don't like themes most of the time even considering every contest, your themes are kinda repetitive and I don't blame you for that, it's hard to find new ones but hey... instead of finding new ones, just don't give themes particularly 'cause some of them are way harder than others and it's pretty unfair. I seriously understand why Centurione was happy about being eliminated, her team got the most difficult themes in the contest ._.

And last point : I think you should make a contest where, according to the round, people have to work by themselves or with a team, it could bring more fun in the contest imho, like sometimes we're opponents, sometimes we have to collaborate :D
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Re: Project Editor Exit Survey

Postby ProjectBarcodeError » Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:41 pm

MimS wrote:Also...
Do you really think you can't do POE without themes? ^^"
More than the fact that I don't like themes most of the time even considering every contest, your themes are kinda repetitive and I don't blame you for that, it's hard to find new ones but hey... instead of finding new ones, just don't give themes particularly 'cause some of them are way harder than others and it's pretty unfair. I seriously understand why Centurione was happy about being eliminated, her team got the most difficult themes in the contest ._.



he's not in the wrong. Most frenchs prefer to have a bunch to music tracks to choose instead of following a theme. Like quickening 2.0 for example (but please no more troll songs XD)
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Re: Project Editor Exit Survey

Postby CodeZTM » Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:53 pm

I'll speak on themes right away.

Themes will likely be a permanent part of Project OrgEditor's franchise (these are the labeled "seasons"). It is an integral part of the contest, and really makes up what it is. Plus, there are TONS of contests which rely only on pre-picked music, and I'd like OrgEditor to maintain itself as a unique contest in this regard. Besides the fact, that I don't want to steal Quickening's or the French contests Spotlights. ;)

However, there is an exception in the Project Editor winter contests (like Tag Team Trials), which don't have to follow the typical format like Project OrgEditor does (which is why I made it!).

I hadn't really thought of a themeless contest, but it might be an interesting experience for the next winter contest. I will definitely put that in my planning notes for next year, and might try and go really out of the box. :)

tl;dr: Project Orgeditor will probably always have themes, but the special winter contests don't necessarily have to have them.
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Re: Project Editor Exit Survey

Postby Shin-AMV » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:33 pm

1. I prefer the individual experience over the team thing. For me, group projects are hard to stay motivated on.

2. I hated the bracket system. The elimination system has kind of a built in drop protection so all videos need to stay fairly competive with everyone else still in. The Bracket system gave some teams free rounds and some of the top tier teams ended up getting eliminated early cause they went up against another strong team.

3. Recycled themes are boring. Some of the themes this round were way overused and I'm tired of seeing them like the seven deadly sins. Also some of the themes needed to be tailored a bit more or narrowed down so they feel more unique like the Shipper's Paradise theme was basically "make a romance video" instead of really invoking ships and OTPs if you get what I mean. I really liked the anime/manga and avant garde themes though.

4. Doesn't really matter to me.

5. I don't mind that they're blind as long as they're revealed at the end of the contest. It helps that they don't get bombarded by flames during the contest but they need to be held accountable or available for scrutiny at the end of the contest at least. I like detailed comments, but even just a sentence or two would suffice for me.

6. Fairly well organized for the most part.

7. Judges need deadlines so we have a better idea of when the results will be in.

8. It'd be fun to have a toilet bowl round were eliminated participants can participate and have a chance to get back into the contest.

9. Not that I can think of.

10. For the majority of them no. The only one I would like to see again is the anime/manga theme.
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Re: Project Editor Exit Survey

Postby Radical_Yue » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:05 pm

Everyone else has already covered the majority of the other problems so this is all I really have to say anything about. The only major problem I really saw was with the themes.

The themes were rather esoteric and not really left open to interpretation. The way I've always viewed it, a theme should be something straight forward that is either an automatic 20 points or 0. You either did it or you didn't. But due to the nature of the themes, half the time the editors are trying for X while the judges are expecting Y. Personally, I don't care about rankings in the end but it always irks me a bit when you see a fantastic video get destroyed because it didn't follow the theme the way that the judges interpreted it. Then again, the fact that the judging always seems to be geared a certain way may just be with the judges and not the themes. Who's to say? :P Speaking of the judges, in my personal opinion, it's more fun to have them be public so you know what you're up against. If I would have known MimS was a judge I would not have opted to work with a song using large amounts of american slang that he wouldn't really get, leading to him not understand the video. lol
(Mirko really covered this well with his final opinion on Nuerogaaaaaaay or whatever the hell the boys named their video. The whole having to give more points to a video that technically follows the theme better but lacks in the editing department etc...)

The fact that you brought back so many themes from old Project Editors really hurt the competition. It's not that they're bad themes but they're themes that were developed for a single person to edit. Really, the only theme that you could edit as an actual team effort properly was the AMV Hell one. Everything else was just attempting to make a normal video but cram multiple people into the experience. While this can be done, this can lead to every single video becoming the same. I mean this in the sense that you're just going to get a bunch of standard MEPs with a single song where the anime/editor switch every 30 seconds, loosely following the general idea but without any real focus.

The final round, in my opinion, would have been better without a random theme but more of a "Each team make a video that represents your individual styles and your epic teamwork. Go wild!" Instead of the two teams facing off to show which was the strongest group of editors, it turned into who could follow the theme the best and not turn it into a giant mess.

But overall, the team experience is fun! Just difficult to work with. I wouldn't say individual is better than team or team is better than individual. They're different beasts entirely. I plan on doing my own style of team battle later this year so maybe we can compare notes afterwards and try and come up with something fun for the future :D
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Re: Project Editor Exit Survey

Postby irriadin » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:27 pm

Radical_Yue wrote:Everyone else has already covered the majority of the other problems so this is all I really have to say anything about. The only major problem I really saw was with the themes.

The themes were rather esoteric and not really left open to interpretation. The way I've always viewed it, a theme should be something straight forward that is either an automatic 20 points or 0. You either did it or you didn't. But due to the nature of the themes, half the time the editors are trying for X while the judges are expecting Y. Personally, I don't care about rankings in the end but it always irks me a bit when you see a fantastic video get destroyed because it didn't follow the theme the way that the judges interpreted it. Then again, the fact that the judging always seems to be geared a certain way may just be with the judges and not the themes. Who's to say? :P Speaking of the judges, in my personal opinion, it's more fun to have them be public so you know what you're up against. If I would have known MimS was a judge I would not have opted to work with a song using large amounts of american slang that he wouldn't really get, leading to him not understand the video. lol
(Mirko really covered this well with his final opinion on Nuerogaaaaaaay or whatever the hell the boys named their video. The whole having to give more points to a video that technically follows the theme better but lacks in the editing department etc...)

The fact that you brought back so many themes from old Project Editors really hurt the competition. It's not that they're bad themes but they're themes that were developed for a single person to edit. Really, the only theme that you could edit as an actual team effort properly was the AMV Hell one. Everything else was just attempting to make a normal video but cram multiple people into the experience. While this can be done, this can lead to every single video becoming the same. I mean this in the sense that you're just going to get a bunch of standard MEPs with a single song where the anime/editor switch every 30 seconds, loosely following the general idea but without any real focus.

The final round, in my opinion, would have been better without a random theme but more of a "Each team make a video that represents your individual styles and your epic teamwork. Go wild!" Instead of the two teams facing off to show which was the strongest group of editors, it turned into who could follow the theme the best and not turn it into a giant mess.

But overall, the team experience is fun! Just difficult to work with. I wouldn't say individual is better than team or team is better than individual. They're different beasts entirely. I plan on doing my own style of team battle later this year so maybe we can compare notes afterwards and try and come up with something fun for the future :D


I agree with this sentiment. I felt confined by the themes rather than encouraged to express my creativity... I'd much prefer a theme that gives a small degree of guidance, but leaves plenty of room for interesting interpretations. Yue's right in that this contest seems far more about "how well did you meet the theme" than "how awesome is your interpretation and your video?" Having everything boil down to meeting a theme makes the entire experience very robotic and not very exciting... anyone can follow directions. The amount of skill, technique and passion you bring doesn't matter as much as making sure all checkboxes are marked off. That's discouraging to me. I don't feel as though I'm being challenged.
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Re: Project Editor Exit Survey

Postby Animated » Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:00 pm

Yue has a point. Basically, I always agree with Yue on certain things, so she gets a huge "x2" from me :P

Themes apart, what I have to add: Background checks on editors and having a 32-teams contest. Here's a fact: 5 out of 16 themes didn't send a video, a percentage of 31.25%. You can only imagine the frustration of the winning teams when they found out they were struggling against an opponent that was never there. Those 5 teams claimed slots that other skilled teams with enough potential to edit could use. So, what I meant with the Background Check term: Our first opponents were the Zephyrian Team. Those 3 guys were youtube editors, and only one of them had 3 or 4 posts on the .org. They weren't answering my pm's and their registration post was the only thing we saw from them. Why not having them on hold and see if another worthy team appears instead of them? OK, I know it's unfair to not enter a team because they are unfamiliar with the .org, and that's why I suggest to increase the number of teams.

Also, I'm stronly against the bracket system. DQs will cause less pain this way. And...
CodeZTM wrote:5) What is your ideal type of judge you would like to see in Project Editor

The one that takes the time to give a honest comment on the video, and fast. And by fast, I mean in 1 or 2 days. Why would it take more than a week to judge 4 videos? And what I saw from certain judges was not even judging, it was just ratings! A whole week just to see 12s and a 16s without knowing the judge's thoughts! I understand that judges have many more things to do in their personal lives than criticizing AMVs, but THAT's why they were chosen. To be stand-by till the day the deadline was over. I believe all of them visit this forum on a daily basis, so why not spare some minutes and also write a thing or two about the videos? This thing is what angered me the most, so I'm up for being a critic next time.
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Re: Project Editor Exit Survey

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:39 pm

irriadin wrote:anyone can follow directions.

As a judge from last year's Summer PoE, I'll say right here: they sure as hell can't.
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