Anime Boston Documentary @ Otakon!

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Postby neilpeartnoy » Mon Aug 04, 2003 5:10 pm

I think this is more of a matter of common sense and common law. Common sense says anywhere there is crowd there will be cameras, digital, video and film. If you don't want to be filmed, stay at home where no one will ever bother you or film you. The law says once you leave a private dwelling you you enter the public. Whatever happens in public is open to public scrutiny. If I were running ASA tests in the park and happen to catch something funny happen to someone, like they slip and fall or are trying to eat some food and are rather messy about it, I could do whatever I wanted with that footage. Sell it to anyone, put it on the web, or not show it to anyone.
I would personally like to know why this guy has such a fear of being on camera. What does he think is going to happen if he doesn't agree to be in the documentary? We run up and start asking questions without permission then include that in the DVD? What?
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Postby EarthCurrent » Mon Aug 04, 2003 6:10 pm

Personally, I want to know why you have such a hard time grasping that not everyone wants to merrily smile for the camera and that the documentary makers should be the ones who go out of their way to ask permission to film people. Simply because the "law" is on your side, does not mean that you can flippantly ignore courtesy. Is it such a hard concept for you to grasp? Is it so hard to come out from behind the camera and ask, "Hey, does anyone here mind if we film this group for our documentary?"

With the exception of cosplayers, people do not typically go to conventions with the intention of being filmed by strangers. And even with cosplayers, you still ask if you can take their photo in most cases if they aren't posing for pictures already.

:roll:
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Postby Vlad G Pohnert » Mon Aug 04, 2003 7:42 pm

Well... From the comments and past experiences, fan done documentaries of Conventions are more trouble then they seem to be worth.. Me personally don't have a problem with them, but in the past a few incidents have been done that are quite tasteless...

What's important in a Documentary is to stay neutral and present things as they appear (kind of like the news). When ones opinion or the editing makes a person do or be what he is not, then all the trouble starts!

I use to do Convention documentaries about 7 years ago and everyone was cool with it, but since then I just don't bother unless I tape for my personal use or with a specific concept like the Dance Dance Revolution Documentaries in which case I am sure to only tape people and activities that those in it are Ok with... BUT generally, it's quite true that is you tape the public is a courtesy to inform them even though it may not require any legal consent...

Personally I would like to be atlest informed if I'll be in a documentary at Otakon before the camera rolls... Not becasue I don't want to be in it, but because I would like to atleast talk with said individuals as to find out what goal they have in mind when presenting it to the public...

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Postby neilpeartnoy » Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:21 pm

When did anyone say they were running around video taping people without their permission? Show me. Show me the incident where anyone said they were going to run around and film everyone if they like it or not. You seem to have this warped view, where you got it from is anyone's guess, that it was someone's intention to sit around with a camera and videotape everyone because they think that every wants to be video taped. Obviously you have hard time comprehending things. Where was it stated that anyone would not ask permission? When was it sated that everyone wants to be on camera? Show me any of the main points you had in a post made anyone. I’m assuming you won’t be able to because you had to be told 5 times to talk to someone else, so I can tell you’re not to quick on the draw.

By the way, because the law is one everyone's side, they can flippantly ignore courtesy, because if you look that word up its definition is 1 polite behavior 2. A polite gesture or remark. Meaning it's the nice thing to do not the obligated, customary or legal thing to do. Being a creature of freewill yourself you could do the same, if you would or not is your problem.
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Postby Freako » Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:23 pm

neilpeartnoy



Im gonna take a wild guess here ........ Are you the "director" ?
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Postby iserlohn » Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:32 pm

Freako wrote:
neilpeartnoy



Im gonna take a wild guess here ........ Are you the "director" ?


No, he's the videographer. Everyone knows that Nightowl is the director.

(sorry, AnimeUSA joke)
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Resolution

Postby Edo » Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:55 pm

Wow alot has been posted! Lets see if I can help. . . :oops:

I didn’t read everything so if I am repeating someone else please excuse my rudeness.

This is a very touchy subject, but those who request not to be filmed, well we’ll try. We could be A$$#@(^$ about it and stick the camera in your face and record you every second that your there. We have the right to; thanks to the wonderful right of freedom of press which I myself hate . . . You’ve heard of paparazzi. :?

But of course we are not dinks about it. If you see us, and ask, we will gladly try not to film you as best we can. Most likely we will be filming concerts, staged acts, and what not. Other than that we will be asking cosplayers if they want to be interviewed, or asking dealers or companies about upcoming things. Of course we will be recording crowds of people that may be in line, or walking around, but nothing like focusing on strangers; unless it’s something that’s really interesting, and most likely it will be in their hand. If you have any questions please AIM me. I’ll take care of questions and things. If you want, you can look up in the legal online papers of freedom of press and see for your self that I am not lying, but I assume you’ll believe me.

So all-in-all most likely we won’t catch you on camera but if we do . . . Well sorry bud but you’re on camera! Say cheese!
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OMG...

Postby AsukaFanGirl » Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:01 pm

Can this absurd behavior please come to a screeching halt...?

I feel the need to point out that THIS web board is the ONLY board giving myself and my fellow crew members any sort of difficulty. Seriously guys...what is your issue? All other posts from web boards/LJs/fan pages have been received with enthusiasm and encouragement. What is it about your feeble minds that make you so anal about this documentary? perhaps you are jealous because you can make a half-ass AMV but lack the brain power to piece together an informative film that people will actually want to watch. Could be...

Now, I'm not one for causing a ruckus but I've learned long ago that the ONLY way to get one's point across to a being of lesser intelligence is to stoop to their level...so stoop I shall! You're all rough & tough boys when it comes to dealing with neilpeartnoy...let's see how you handle a rather livid female, shall we? Still, as my IQ is apparently much higher than yours, you may want to track down a dictionary for all the "big" words.

First, I would like to point out that this documentary crew is PRESS...can you all read that?!? P-R-E-S-S. We were given permission by AB2K3 and Otakon to bring in our cameras, films, mics, and whatever else we wanted in order to make this documentary. We've taken all proper precautions by writing up release forms that all interviewees must sign and we never film copyrighted materials, such as the Art Galleries or AMV Contests. We are not your typical acne infested pre-pubescent fans trying to impress some girl who doesn't even know we exist. In fact, we are just trying to earn a living as our film crew contains several film students and a sociology major with aspirations in advertising who will be using said documentaries as part of their portfolios. Hmmm...do you understand that concept?!? The whole having a life thing? Maybe not, but I do not have the energy to explain it to you now. Ask your mommies and daddies to fill you in.

I do not recall ever asking ANY of you to be interviewed so why all the flora and fauna, children? It's not like my crew is going to harass you until you break down and give us a teary eyed interview. You are all rather insignificant to this process...not even specks on my radar...until you have signed the release form and agree to be interviewed. Should we approach you at Otakon...which is a very real possibility since you are all faceless idiots to us...please have the decency to politely decline and walk away. Do not be rude and do not make a scene. This is a professional documentary, as I said before, and I would certainly appreciate the COURTESY, since you are all so keen on that concept and Neilpeartnoy has been kind enough to supply you all with a dictionary certified definition of the word.

I believe it was "Freako" who made the remark about paying for this documentary? Sorry if I have given credit to the wrong individual but all your whining makes it difficult to differentiate between individuals. Well, this comment certainly tickled my sides because I certainly do not remember ever offering YOU a copy. If you don't think it's a worth investment then by all means, don't purchase it. We'll happily sell that remaining copy to one of the MANY fans who have expressed an interest in it. Still, it should be interesting to see if you pick up a copy and continue to bitch about it on this board.

Now, Earthcurrent, you are my next target. Aren't you special with your mosaic idea. Let me ask you this...have you ever taken a camera to a party or similar event? Did you ask EVERY SINGLE PERSON present if they would mind being taped on the off chance that they might possibly end up on film? I highly doubt it. Now, if you planned on showing ANYBODY that footage, then by your own rules, you would have to place a mosaic over every uninformed individual's head. Did you do that?!? Again, I doubt you did.

Vlad, I do wish to thank you for your open mind on this issue. Rest assured that this documentary is a neutral representation of Japanese culture and will contain no personal opinions of the crew members. All interview questions/answers are completely unaltered and all interviewees are presented as intelligent individuals.

Jbone, you I must admit are going to be my favorite. I want to ask you this...how does it feel to be 24 and have the same mentality you had prior to your testicles dropping? What was so difficult to understand when I asked you at least 5 times to contact the director at thecheshireotaku@yahoo.com with any and all questions/comments/concerns/ideas?!? You come across as an extremely daft individual and I must admit your age came as a HUGE surprise. It is my observance that most people who are out of college and in the real world have far better things to do with their times then whine about their face being in a documentary. You seem quite interested in theatre...I'm willing to bet that somewhere, someone has taped you on stage. I'm positive you did not have a problem with that.

I must admit that in all the ranting and ravings I lost track of who was bitching about which documentary since there appear to be issues with the already made AB2K3 documentary and the about to enter filming Otakon documentary. So I shall address both issues individually, as well.

AB2K3: If you don't wish to buy a copy then DON'T. It's really as simple as that. Believe me, we would rather it end up in the hands of a real fan. We have many interested people who are eagerly away the mass production of this documentary and have already arranged the sale of several copies at Otakon. In fact, the documentary has received wide enough acclaim that many AB2K3 staff members have pre-arranged to have a copy sent to them, Patrick D who runs the AB web board among them.

Otakon: My advise? If you are really that paranoid then stay home and shut all your window shade...live the rest of your life as a hermit. If you are brave enough to venture out then the only thing I can tell you in to (1) POLITELY decline an interviews, (2) avoid any and all cameras when possible since we are not the only film crew going, and (3) approach any film crews with your concerns about being on camera. People in the film industry are very understanding and we are no exception. If we are aware of your dislike for the camera we will do our very best to edit you out if possible. But I caution you not to go accusing every man with a camera, because we are just as faceless to you as you are to us.

You are an egocentric lot of people and I pity any and all who have to deal with you on a daily basis. I assume that if you are attending these conventions it is for love of anime on some level. You are surrounded by people who have a shared passion with you...my crew is no exception. We are all enthusiastic otakus and many of us have plans of cosplaying and participating in various events while other crew members film. I am completely taken aback by your lack of love for this documentary...if you are indeed a true fan you should embrace the efforts people take to spread Japanese Anime to the uninformed person. That is our ultimate goal as a documentary staff. We are gearing it towards the uninformed, in hopes of giving outsiders a better understanding of the culture we submerse ourselves in.

Oh, and “Freako”? I am not even going to comment on your premature accusations of who our director is. For all you know, it could be me and I wished to avoid having these issues expressed on what was SUPPOSED to be a chipper post about our documentary.

That is all I have to say for now. I am truly appalled by the juvenile behavior you have exhibited in these past few days and am sorry to say that you have ruined the chance for anybody else to come across future postings about this or any other upcoming documentary. I will not waste my time trying to be generous to have people like you ruin something I have worked very hard for. You are pathetic and will have to deal with that for the rest of your lives.

:shock:
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Postby mexicanjunior » Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:19 pm

Freako wrote:after the ushicon and akon vids by random/variable,


Hahahah! Carlos will hate you forever now! :lol:
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Re: OMG...

Postby dokidoki » Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:29 pm

AsukaFanGirl wrote:which is a very real possibility since you are all faceless idiots to us...

I hope that your interviewee release form makes this viewpoint clear.
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Re: OMG...

Postby AsukaFanGirl » Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:34 pm

dokidoki wrote:
AsukaFanGirl wrote:which is a very real possibility since you are all faceless idiots to us...

I hope that your interviewee release form makes this viewpoint clear.


You took that the wrong way. Not everybody is a faceless idiot...far from it! i look forward to meeting everybody we interview and have formed many friendships thru AB2K3 and Otakon.

I meant that the three rather stubborn individuals were faceless idiots. I LOVE THE GENERAL OTAKU PUBLIC!

:shock:
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Re: OMG...

Postby Castor Troy » Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:36 pm

AsukaFanGirl wrote:I feel the need to point out that THIS web board is the ONLY board giving myself and my fellow crew members any sort of difficulty.


Man, are we assholes.. :shock:
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Re: Ah the internet

Postby jbone » Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:44 pm

neilpeartnoy wrote:If you don't want to be interviewed when we ask you if you want to filmed, say no! Is that so hard? Do you have to make spectacle on the ever so popular board yelling at someone who told you not once, but 5 times to contact the director. Why didn't you contact the director like anyone who has enough intelligence to wipe their own ass.

If you don't want the documentary, don't buy it. If you don't want to be interviewed, say no when asked. It's not rocket science, it?s not even basic English and grammar comprehension, but we see where we are with that now don?t we?

I never yelled at anyone, I simply asked questions and responded peacefully - it just so happens that the method of response left me feeling the person didn't understand my initial concern.

And this isn't about being interviewed, it's about being filmed as something other than "blurry person in big crowd."
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Re: OMG...

Postby jbone » Mon Aug 04, 2003 11:28 pm

AsukaFanGirl wrote:Can this absurd behavior please come to a screeching halt...?

I certainly wish yours would.

AsukaFanGirl wrote:I feel the need to point out that THIS web board is the ONLY board giving myself and my fellow crew members any sort of difficulty. Seriously guys...what is your issue? All other posts from web boards/LJs/fan pages have been received with enthusiasm and encouragement. What is it about your feeble minds that make you so anal about this documentary? perhaps you are jealous because you can make a half-ass AMV but lack the brain power to piece together an informative film that people will actually want to watch. Could be...

Nevermind the possibility that we may have people who think further into being filmed than, "DUR, ME IN KAMERA! ME GO SMILEY-SMILE!"

Truly, I began by asking a simple, direct question. You then proceeded to act as if you took personal offense to it, then tried to shirk me off as if you had no interest in the possibility of my opinion.

AsukaFanGirl wrote:Now, I'm not one for causing a ruckus but I've learned long ago that the ONLY way to get one's point across to a being of lesser intelligence is to stoop to their level...so stoop I shall! You're all rough & tough boys when it comes to dealing with neilpeartnoy...let's see how you handle a rather livid female, shall we? Still, as my IQ is apparently much higher than yours, you may want to track down a dictionary for all the "big" words.

There is little more arrogant and more blatantly obnoxious than a person who will openly and publicly insist that he or she is far more intelligent than people who question the individual's viewpoint.

AsukaFanGirl wrote:First, I would like to point out that this documentary crew is PRESS...can you all read that?!? P-R-E-S-S. We were given permission by AB2K3 and Otakon to bring in our cameras, films, mics, and whatever else we wanted in order to make this documentary. We've taken all proper precautions by writing up release forms that all interviewees must sign and we never film copyrighted materials, such as the Art Galleries or AMV Contests. We are not your typical acne infested pre-pubescent fans trying to impress some girl who doesn't even know we exist. In fact, we are just trying to earn a living as our film crew contains several film students and a sociology major with aspirations in advertising who will be using said documentaries as part of their portfolios. Hmmm...do you understand that concept?!? The whole having a life thing? Maybe not, but I do not have the energy to explain it to you now. Ask your mommies and daddies to fill you in.

And that's supposed to give us confidence in you? It's fortunate that most "professional" members of the media know better than to directly badmouth those to whom they try to report, and also whom they wish to film.

AsukaFanGirl wrote:I do not recall ever asking ANY of you to be interviewed so why all the flora and fauna, children? It's not like my crew is going to harass you until you break down and give us a teary eyed interview. You are all rather insignificant to this process...not even specks on my radar...until you have signed the release form and agree to be interviewed. Should we approach you at Otakon...which is a very real possibility since you are all faceless idiots to us...please have the decency to politely decline and walk away. Do not be rude and do not make a scene. This is a professional documentary, as I said before, and I would certainly appreciate the COURTESY, since you are all so keen on that concept and Neilpeartnoy has been kind enough to supply you all with a dictionary certified definition of the word.

What a pleasant and professional attitude you are extending to us. Don't worry, if I meet you in person, I'll be sure to return exactly the courtesy you extend toward us in this forum.

Faceless idiots indeed. Real members of the press know better than to verbally attack their own audience. Are you actually studying this? What do you think your profesors would think of you, were they to discover how you were acting toward the members of this forum, simply because some of us dislike the way in which you regard us?

AsukaFanGirl wrote:I believe it was "Freako" who made the remark about paying for this documentary? Sorry if I have given credit to the wrong individual but all your whining makes it difficult to differentiate between individuals. Well, this comment certainly tickled my sides because I certainly do not remember ever offering YOU a copy. If you don't think it's a worth investment then by all means, don't purchase it. We'll happily sell that remaining copy to one of the MANY fans who have expressed an interest in it. Still, it should be interesting to see if you pick up a copy and continue to bitch about it on this board.

You have a lot to learn about selling your product. By insulting Freako and claiming he's not valuable to you as a consumer, you isolate everyone who shares Freako's viewpoint. People often react in a herdlike manner, and I'd wager money that your immature reaction and verbal assault have alienated a larger number of people than your closed mind wilol ever realize.

AsukaFanGirl wrote:Now, Earthcurrent, you 0are my next target.

The maturity is overpowering.

AsukaFanGirl wrote:Aren't you special with your mosaic idea. Let me ask you this...have you ever taken a camera to a party or similar event? Did you ask EVERY SINGLE PERSON present if they would mind being taped on the off chance that they might possibly end up on film? I highly doubt it. Now, if you planned on showing ANYBODY that footage, then by your own rules, you would have to place a mosaic over every uninformed individual's head. Did you do that?!? Again, I doubt you did.

You need to learn to politely react to potentially constructive ideas, even if the ideas are implausible. More verbal attacks only make you look worse in our eyes.

AsukaFanGirl wrote:Rest assured that this documentary is a neutral representation of Japanese culture and will contain no personal opinions of the crew members.

If crew members are involved in the documentary's production, then it will be impossible to guarantee that none of the crew members' interests are expressed.

AsukaFanGirl wrote:All interview questions/answers are completely unaltered and all interviewees are presented as intelligent individuals.

All the faceless idiots are presented as intelligent individuals? Hmm. How quaint.

AsukaFanGirl wrote:Jbone, you I must admit are going to be my favorite. I want to ask you this...how does it feel to be 24 and have the same mentality you had prior to your testicles dropping? What was so difficult to understand when I asked you at least 5 times to contact the director at thecheshireotaku@yahoo.com with any and all questions/comments/concerns/ideas?!? You come across as an extremely daft individual and I must admit your age came as a HUGE surprise. It is my observance that most people who are out of college and in the real world have far better things to do with their times then whine about their face being in a documentary. You seem quite interested in theatre...I'm willing to bet that somewhere, someone has taped you on stage. I'm positive you did not have a problem with that.

Firstly, as it is expected of me, I must explain that you are not proficient with regard to grammar and punctuation. The first sentence of that paragraph is worded awkwardly, although if you had included the necessary commas.

My testicles notwithstanding, your inefficient usage of the English language cause you to appear to not understand my questions. What was difficult to understand was the reason why you seemd to prefer to brush off valid questions (ones to which, I'm sure, I'm not the only person who would have liked to have seen answers).

Mayhaps I seem daft to you, but you come across as unbearably arrogant and self-centered, and without any desire whatsoever to deal on a personal level with the people you claim to want to treat and portray fairly on film.

Any involvement in theater is completely irrelevant to my desire to not be a part of what is essentially a fan-made "documentary." It wouldn't matter to me if PBS were filming it - except, when PBS films a documentary, I imagine they treat their potential subjects with a bit more respect than you do. But, I digress.

If I'm on stage, I choose to be on stage, and I know I will be filmed, and the purpose of the filming would not be to portray intelligent idiots as faceless individuals, or whatever you claim your purpose to be.

AsukaFanGirl wrote:Otakon: My advise? If you are really that paranoid then stay home and shut all your window shade...live the rest of your life as a hermit.

Because being in a public place means you automatically submit to being filmed by whomsoever wishes to film you?

AsukaFanGirl wrote:If you are brave enough to venture out then the only thing I can tell you in to (1) POLITELY decline an interviews, (2) avoid any and all cameras when possible since we are not the only film crew going, and (3) approach any film crews with your concerns about being on camera.

Everyone should familiarize themselves with your photograph, and then extend to you the same courtesy you're currently extending to us.

AsukaFanGirl wrote:People in the film industry are very understanding and we are no exception.

You've demonstrated to us just how understanding you are.

Spork help us all if everyone in the film industry were as "understanding" as you portray yourself to be.

AsukaFanGirl wrote:You are an egocentric lot of people and I pity any and all who have to deal with you on a daily basis.

I couldn't have described you any better if I'd tried.

AsukaFanGirl wrote:I assume that if you are attending these conventions it is for love of anime on some level. You are surrounded by people who have a shared passion with you...my crew is no exception. We are all enthusiastic otakus and many of us have plans of cosplaying and participating in various events while other crew members film.

Firstly, "Otaku" is both singular and plural, you never add an "s" to the end of it.

Secondly, do you even know what an Otaku truly is? Before you claim to be something, you really should know both its literal definition and the wat the term is currently accepted by society.

AsukaFanGirl wrote:I am completely taken aback by your lack of love for this documentary...if you are indeed a true fan you should embrace the efforts people take to spread Japanese Anime to the uninformed person. That is our ultimate goal as a documentary staff. We are gearing it towards the uninformed, in hopes of giving outsiders a better understanding of the culture we submerse ourselves in.

Geared toward the uninformed, portraying the faceless idiots, and forged by a crew of amateurs without journalistic merit or attitude.

AsukaFanGirl wrote:That is all I have to say for now. I am truly appalled by the juvenile behavior you have exhibited in these past few days and am sorry to say that you have ruined the chance for anybody else to come across future postings about this or any other upcoming documentary. I will not waste my time trying to be generous to have people like you ruin something I have worked very hard for. You are pathetic and will have to deal with that for the rest of your lives.

What your naive self has failed to realize is that we hold our attitudes strictly due to what others (who often have claimed to have been "journalists") have portrayed in the past as "documentaries."

You are not "the press." You are not "the media." You are not "journalists." You've a bunch of kids who aren't yet mature or worldly enough to realize that your viewpoint isn't the only one out there, that other people have screwed up similar things and therefore have made your jobs tougher for you. And you, yourself, are so ready to lash out and to become antagonistic that your own "journalistic" interests are overshadowed by your arrogance, your intolerance, and your ignorance.


Understand, this is nothing personal. You're acting the part of an immature brat, but you'll mature with age, and you'll eventually realize that, in this case and at this time, you weren't right. And you'll grow from it, if you allow yourself to.
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Postby AsukaFanGirl » Mon Aug 04, 2003 11:33 pm

*laughs* Thanks for the amusement. 'Twas fun.
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