Project OrgEditor [Recommendation Thread]

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Project OrgEditor [Recommendation Thread]

Postby CodeZTM » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:32 am

Hey guys! With this year's contest wrapping up, a lot of people have had fantastic ideas on how to better improve Project Editor in future years. I am all for making the contest user friendly and want to help please everyone as much as possible. Granted, when it comes down to it, I can't please every single person, and decisions will have to be made, BUT I'm all for input.

Here are the proposed changes that have been requested to be made.

#1: Eliminations will be... Eliminated!

The first thing that was sent to me is that if eliminations are all that necessary. I'm on the fence about it. Personally, if we eliminated the eliminations, it would require a cap on entrants. I don't expect my judges to judge 40-50 videos every week, should the contest get that much attention in the future. But, how this would work is similar to how this year's worked. Each round would get a score and drops would result in just a 0 for that round instead of elimination. After that, during the "Finals" only the top 3 score earners would make it through.

#2: Scoring System Revamped

A lot of people asked about why the points were awarded the way they were, and several people said it was convoluted. Many have instead requested that we go to a much simpler 1-10 scale, with 1 being the worst and 10 being the highest. From there, I assign the criteria for a 1-10, similar to a grading rubric on writing prompts, so editors know exactly what we are looking for.

The other suggestion was to just let the judges vote on who should be eliminated, and dump scoring all together. Although if #1 passes, this probably won't work.

#3: Judge Selection

Several asked me why I picked the judges that I picked, and I believe I answered that adequetely. I stand behind my choices, and I believe our judges have done a FANTASTIC job. That being said, several requested that we lower the judges to only 5, and have those judges audition for the part in a main thread, and have the userbase vote on who would be judges.

#4 Timing

One of the biggest complaints/requests came for a better timing of each round. A suggestion was made to have each round more similar to Iron Chef 4, where editors would select a time period [1-3 days instead of a week], where they can edit their video. This would mean that each round would last about 2 weeks, and each editor having to pick by the deadline when to edit, and the rounds cut back to only 5 [4 rounds and a final round].

#5 Dump the Live-Action

Several people seemed uncomfortable with the idea of live-action and non-anime sources. I tend to disagree, since I can count on one hand the number of live-action/non-anime entries. BUT it's something to comment about, and I can understand their position.

#6 Audition

This will DEFINITELY be implemented next year. To compete/signup, editors will have to submit a 30 second audition video freshly edited. This way, we don't have 1/2 the competition drop the first round because they were barely interested in it.

________________________

Comment on the ideas, share your opinions and speak your mind! |:>

You may also propose your own changes you would like to make. We're not limited to what I typed!
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Re: Project OrgEditor [Recommendation Thread]

Postby Nya-chan Production » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:37 am

Why is it so necessary to have it short and kick a large masses of entrants in the first few rounds? I wouldn't be against a longer piece (say 6-8 rounds) if we had enough time for each.
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Re: Project OrgEditor [Recommendation Thread]

Postby CodeZTM » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:51 am

Nya-chan Production wrote:Why is it so necessary to have it short and kick a large masses of entrants in the first few rounds? I wouldn't be against a longer piece (say 6-8 rounds) if we had enough time for each.


That's possible. I just figured that most people wouldn't' want to edit for that many rounds in such quick succession of each other. Plus, the fear of burnout.
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Re: Project OrgEditor [Recommendation Thread]

Postby lloyd9988 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:04 pm

Hmm.. I just thought of something... If the only thing that was missing in the last scoring system was the thrill and fun of it ... Why not just add bonus points for those people who are trudging behind?? Like, extra credit in school or something so they can catch up with the other contestants and have a fair chance like everyone else??
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Re: Project OrgEditor [Recommendation Thread]

Postby Ileia » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:06 pm

lloyd9988 wrote:Hmm.. I just thought of something... If the only thing that was missing in the last scoring system was the thrill and fun of it ... Why not just add bonus points for those people who are trudging behind?? Like, extra credit in school or something so they can catch up with the other contestants and have a fair chance like everyone else??


Only for those behind? Sounds fair. While we're at it, let's give the person in the lead a handicap.
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Re: Project OrgEditor [Recommendation Thread]

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:07 pm

Easy way to fix the massive drop problem would be to ban from future competition anyone that drops without good reason from future competitions. It works better if you have multiple people running these kinds of things that will adhere to the blacklist as a show of solidarity. I hear this approach works wonders for convention panelist programming. :awesome:

Suggestions you might actually consider:

1) Make every round stand-alone again. It's more exciting.
2) Make all judges secret judges. It could totally work. And people trust you enough to pick them now, so what does it matter if they're known or not.
Last edited by BasharOfTheAges on Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Project OrgEditor [Recommendation Thread]

Postby Copycat_Revolver » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:08 pm

Ileia wrote:
lloyd9988 wrote:Hmm.. I just thought of something... If the only thing that was missing in the last scoring system was the thrill and fun of it ... Why not just add bonus points for those people who are trudging behind?? Like, extra credit in school or something so they can catch up with the other contestants and have a fair chance like everyone else??


Only for those behind? Sounds fair. While we're at it, let's give the person in the lead a handicap.



Ooh ooh I got it. Let's just disqualify the person with the highest score each round, that would definitely give the people trailing behind a fair shot.
Last edited by Copycat_Revolver on Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Project OrgEditor [Recommendation Thread]

Postby Mkid » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:09 pm

1.I personally dont undertstand this

2.I do believe that the scoring system this year was kinda a drag, why should the last round effect this round.. but than again you bring a good point with people EARNING that right to not worry.
(basically a contest is suppose to keep you on your toes, no matter how good you are,no matter how amazing the judges think you are, you should always be worried about getting kicked, i think we should go for a round for round contest. with a few kinks like, for a round the top competitor(person who got the best score) could get elimination Exempt.. and for another round do something with the person who BARLY got by, like make them have to turn in the project a day early)

3. WHO CARES about the judges lol :ying: thats why we have mutiple of them, so we can have different ideas.

4. a week is good!, having 1 - 3 days is kinda a rush. people are just kinda lazy i suppose, but a week is good nothing should change about that.

5.if you drop live action, you drop a little bit of the creativity that comes with having a "Theme" i suppose.

6.Im all for it, TOO MANY PEOPLE droped ad we only had 1/2 the amount we should've had.
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Re: Project OrgEditor [Recommendation Thread]

Postby lloyd9988 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:21 pm

Copycat_Revolver wrote:
Ileia wrote:
lloyd9988 wrote:Hmm.. I just thought of something... If the only thing that was missing in the last scoring system was the thrill and fun of it ... Why not just add bonus points for those people who are trudging behind?? Like, extra credit in school or something so they can catch up with the other contestants and have a fair chance like everyone else??


Only for those behind? Sounds fair. While we're at it, let's give the person in the lead a handicap.



Ooh ooh I got it. Let's just disqualify the person with the highest score each round, that would definitely give the people trailing behind a fair shot.


Umm... Lets not do that...

Ok, so I guess what I'm trying to say when I'm talking about "bonus points", I meaning to say something like a "bonus round". So its optional to participate in the bonus round, but it's mainly intended for those who are behind to catch up. Of course, the bonus round would probably only happen once in the whole competition and it open to all the editors. I think it'd be good even for the people who are ahead of everyone else because they can get some extra points, or they can take a week off.

Also... How about doing some 'Mock POE' to make sure the system that's going to be in effect will be effective and fun??
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Re: Project OrgEditor [Recommendation Thread]

Postby Copycat_Revolver » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:25 pm

lloyd9988 wrote:Umm... Lets not do that...

Ok, so I guess what I'm trying to say when I'm talking about "bonus points", I meaning to say something like a "bonus round". So its optional to participate in the bonus round, but it's mainly intended for those who are behind to catch up. Of course, the bonus round would probably only happen once in the whole competition and it open to all the editors. I think it'd be good even for the people who are ahead of everyone else because they can get some extra points, or they can take a week off.


So... it would be just like any other round, except participation would be optional. Okay. That is an idea. A silly, unnecessary one, but that doesn't discount the fact that it is indeed an idea.
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Re: Project OrgEditor [Recommendation Thread]

Postby Ileia » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:41 pm

The scoring issue would be easier to deal with if the point of the contest was more clearly defined. Who should be the winner? The one who does the best throughout the entire contest? Or, similar to reality shows (which the contest suggests it is), is it anyone's game every round and it doesn't matter if you've done well previously?

Along with that, if you decide against eliminations completely, the cumulative score "flaw" could still happen if someone accrued enough points.

Voting on who gets kicked out is interesting, but the ratio of editors to judges means that it's possible each judge could vote for someone else. How would that be dealt with?

With selecting judges, I think that at least one judge should be someone who had competed previously (no, I'm not trying to suggest myself, I won't be participating at all next year), so that you have someone who knows exactly what the editors are going through, having done it themselves.

With non-anime sources, I don't see how less people choosing to use it means that it shouldn't be allowed. This is, after all, an anime music videos website, most of the editors will be best comfortable using anime. There are other reasons to question it, though. For instance, why would an org-sponsored event welcome the usage, but you're not permitted to link to one you made anywhere on the forums except the "offtopic" area?
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Re: Project OrgEditor [Recommendation Thread]

Postby Moonlight Soldier » Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:37 pm

General recommendation: Make sure you understand the theme you're going to present. Be clear. It's one thing if a competitor doesn't like the theme, but another thing entirely if they're confused as to what they're supposed to edit.

Also, be realistic with the expectations of a theme.

If a round is going to be a week, OK, but don't ask for the impossible. Just because someone has a week doesn't mean they will have four to eight hours to edit a video every day, or will be able to edit everyday. Everyone in this competition is coming from different places. Some have full-time jobs, some have part-time jobs, some are college students, some are in high school. Life happens.

Personally I have no issue with the judges or how they were picked. Having them be secret judges might be a good idea to try since the more uhh fragile types and their peers tend to take out their frustrations on them. So even if the judge is like the Simon of a competition at the end of the day, no matter how they say it, it probably had to be said.

I'm not really sure what to do about the scoring issue. There are people who don't seem to understand that to have a winner, someone has to lose. Frankly the more options you have to appeal losing the more drama and whining you're going to get. And personally I think all these ideas to make the losers of a round feel like winners (lol participation ribbon) kind of takes away from the competition aspect.

Ileia wrote:The scoring issue would be easier to deal with if the point of the contest was more clearly defined. Who should be the winner? The one who does the best throughout the entire contest? Or, similar to reality shows (which the contest suggests it is), is it anyone's game every round and it doesn't matter if you've done well previously?


^ I'd agree that this is what you'd have to consider when you think about how you want to score or eliminate people.
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Re: Project OrgEditor [Recommendation Thread]

Postby meleechampion » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:06 pm

Ileia (and moonie kinda) said this already, but before we go questioning rules or specific technicalities of a contest, you have to define it's purpose.

No really. What are you (Code) trying to do here?

Should be obvious why this is important, but I can expand on my line of reasoning (with examples, charts even? >glasses<) if you want me to.
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Re: Project OrgEditor [Recommendation Thread]

Postby Nya-chan Production » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:09 pm

meleechampion wrote:Ileia (and moonie kinda) said this already, but before we go questioning rules or specific technicalities of a contest, you have to define it's purpose.

No really. What are you (Code) trying to do here?

Should be obvious why this is important, but I can expand on my line of reasoning (with examples, charts even? >glasses<) if you want me to.

Knowing Code, it's the same, most dangerous thing as ever.

Want everyone to have fun |:>
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Re: Project OrgEditor [Recommendation Thread]

Postby meleechampion » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:20 pm

Nya-chan Production wrote:
meleechampion wrote:Ileia (and moonie kinda) said this already, but before we go questioning rules or specific technicalities of a contest, you have to define it's purpose.

No really. What are you (Code) trying to do here?

Should be obvious why this is important, but I can expand on my line of reasoning (with examples, charts even? >glasses<) if you want me to.

Knowing Code, it's the same, most dangerous thing as ever.

Want everyone to have fun |:>

That's what I'm saying, are we all drawing a pony a day for a month? What?!
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