The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Nya-chan Production » Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:39 pm

Kionon wrote:
In other words - we don't redesign the Org for you,. but for community (or at least we're trying).


Not asking for that. I am asking that we be reasonable and respect all views, including those of conservatives. When I stated we would become a different community, I do not mean would we would grow and change and progress, these are all good things, within reason. I was saying that we would become an entirely different media site, one with community standards and that are not ours, but rather represent a growing trend in disposable content consumerism I thought we stood firmly against.

Yes, we should grow, progress, and ultimately, change, but we must do so without losing ourselves.

I can see only "hardcore" conservative - and that's you. Bring me more of them and I might consider it :>

Discount Menu wrote:Stuff.

Greatly said - spoken like this it's surely possible to take it way more serious and think about it. If you want my opinion (but don't tell anyone ;x ) I am for it.

Pwolf wrote:And to defend the point of these threads, NO ONE'S OPINION SHOULD EVER BE IGNORED! I don't care who it is. If I was an admin of this site i would fire Nya for making the comments he made towards Kio. As a moderator and part of the staff, you should be more open to other's ideas. We are trying to make this site better for the community and ignoring someone's valid opinion isn't forward progress, it's backwards. You don't ignore an opinion you don't like, you discuss it. As Nya said, this is for the community not just the org staff.

That's why I stated that I say it for myself. As an admin I read it and considered it - and for now he's the only one against other people who make constructive proposals and are pretty much happy about the fact that something's moving. So for now I have to say that it's not possible even from the admin point of view.

And yeah, maybe my post was a bit personal and harsh - sorry for that, but seeing the same negativistic thing in the fourth thread annoyed me a bit. I am a human too, after all.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Ikore » Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:41 pm

Brad wrote:I think my main concern is getting the site away from NEEDING donations so badly that it ends up becoming a turn-off to new users.
reality about new users, they will be used to watch videos on streaming, I guess only old amvers keep a collection of downloaded videos store in our pc :uhoh: . and 100 mb limitation really incentive to learn encoding and quality methods.
.org is still that copy-bitch free zone, where there is no such an issue with material being deleted, as it could be in any other hosting site :/, speaking the man who already have 4 deleted accounts on yt :up: and actually running 3, 1 of them with 2 strikes :awesome:

I really don´t think donation will set people away, let´s face it other hosting sites are even worst, we should just set it more comfortable.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Athena » Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:54 pm

I don't have time to fully respond, Nya, but I am afraid I am neither as "hardcore" as you seem to think I am, and I am also not alone. I'm just harder to ignore. And some of those with my views don't seem to think they will be taken seriously if they comment. You're proving them right.

Again, for anyone who was in #amv last night, you know at least one new member who shares my views. I didn't log the conversation, but I bet one of the other ops did, and can find me the relevant passages...
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby godix » Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:10 pm

Discount Menu wrote:Can my one suggestion be to ignore anything that Kionon says? I think that would help a lot.

x2. If the org was doing great under the 2001 style way things have been going, there wouldn't be complaints of it dying and talk of redesign to begin with. Thus Kio's 'don't change anything' should be discounted since we've tried that, and it doesn't seem to be working that well.

Brad wrote:Do we really need a hosted solution anymore? I mean, in all honesty, if we were to do away with the massive bulk of the server space and bandwidth and have it be purely a catalog for people to plug in links to YouTube or freely available download solutions like MegaUpload or personal hosted space, would we really be losing THAT much?

Yes, we would be losing permanence of videos. Megaupload and other free sites like that are A) annoying as all fuck, even more annoying than the orgs donation page and B) delete stuff if it's been awhile since it was downloaded. The tube is notorious for deleting videos, so much so that if I find a good tube video I use a greasemonkey script to download it onto my computer instead of bookmarking. Odds are it won't be there in a week/month/whatever.

That being said, I have no idea if it'd even help finances. I know we have newish servers. I know we have a fixed bandwidth. I'm not sure cutting down on the videos hosted locally, or removing them entirely, would save money anyway
Last edited by godix on Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby CodeZTM » Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:14 pm

Well, would it be that difficult to allow comments/QC's to be disabled?

Not everybody wants everything about their videos made public. I don't see anything wrong with helping them out in that manner. WE already have a system that lets us hide videos on our profile, so why not allow people to hide comments. Youtube has that function to disable comments and facebook can let messages be hidden from friends, so I don't see anything wrong with allowing a similar function for QC's and star ratings.

It's somewhat different than what most editors seem to wish to have/want [I personally wish we had a more public/social system], but to each his/her own. |:>
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Pwolf » Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:18 pm

Nya-chan Production wrote:
Pwolf wrote:And to defend the point of these threads, NO ONE'S OPINION SHOULD EVER BE IGNORED! I don't care who it is. If I was an admin of this site i would fire Nya for making the comments he made towards Kio. As a moderator and part of the staff, you should be more open to other's ideas. We are trying to make this site better for the community and ignoring someone's valid opinion isn't forward progress, it's backwards. You don't ignore an opinion you don't like, you discuss it. As Nya said, this is for the community not just the org staff.

That's why I stated that I say it for myself. As an admin I read it and considered it - and for now he's the only one against other people who make constructive proposals and are pretty much happy about the fact that something's moving. So for now I have to say that it's not possible even from the admin point of view.

And yeah, maybe my post was a bit personal and harsh - sorry for that, but seeing the same negativistic thing in the fourth thread annoyed me a bit. I am a human too, after all.


I haven't read anything from Kio that suggests he's against anything people are saying. he's just voicing his opinion about what he wants, whats wrong with that? Thats what everyone else is doing. He's just not wanting what everyone else wants. It's a valid opinion and he's not the only one who shares those ideas. Maybe no one has come out and said along the same lines but I can guarantee there's at least one other person in this community who shares his ideas. We don't even know what we want the org to be yet, so how can there be forward progress and growth? If the org staff wants to figure that out for us, by all means, go ahead, but don't act like this is a community effort and slam down someone else's idea of what forward and backward progress is because he's not agreeing with your idea of what that is.

back on topic... everyone, don't even think about what's possible or what isn't possible or how difficult it would be to make. This time is for sharing ideas. When it comes time to put it all together i'm sure we can figure it out.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby inthesto » Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:23 pm

Pwolf wrote:everyone, don't even think about what's possible or what isn't possible or how difficult it would be to make. This time is for sharing ideas. When it comes time to put it all together i'm sure we can figure it out.


In that case I want a blowjob from a unicorn.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Pwolf » Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:24 pm

Discount Menu wrote:
Pwolf wrote:everyone, don't even think about what's possible or what isn't possible or how difficult it would be to make. This time is for sharing ideas. When it comes time to put it all together i'm sure we can figure it out.


In that case I want a blowjob from a unicorn.


i'm sure we can figure out how to make that happen...
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby CodeZTM » Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:28 pm

A section to schedule streaming video editing or tips/tricks? Ustream is a nice tool for that.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Zarxrax » Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:15 pm

CodeZTM wrote:A section to schedule streaming video editing or tips/tricks? Ustream is a nice tool for that.

Nice idea but that it more a content thing than a site design decision. People could start doing that right now, and mention it from the forum if they want to. The problem with actually making it a section of the site, is you do that and then no one provides the content... then you've got a useless section on the site.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Athena » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:21 pm

Now that I have time to write, I don't have a reliable connection, so I'm going to try to address what's being said.

I am not necessarily opposed to many of the ideas that have been brought up. I am, however, opposed to being forced to participate in some of those features. I am asking for a personal off switch, that's all. I don't think it's me being anti-social, it's just me having certain ideas of what I wish to use the org for, and not liking an all or nothing mentality being applied. That attitude will just run off people like me who use the main site as a database and nothing else because that's what we genuinely want.

A joke was made last night on #amv about the Org becoming OrgBook, and indeed, that is definitely an issue that concerns me. I won't begrudge those features to others, but I think it's not unreasonable to ask for a feature that disables other features. Having to wade through a front page of status updates, quick comments, star ratings, wall posts, and journal entries just to get to the super search function is really, really annoying for anyone who doesn't want to participate in those features.

I can do all of those things by using the forums and the IRC channels.

Likewise, the only commentary I wish to receive are opinions, which are private, and announcement thread responses which are public. I am against both anonymous commentary, public and private, and against public commentary which is not specifically requested. As Pwolf says, sometimes, I just want to post a video there for others to watch, but for whatever reason, may be totally uninterested in commentary, especially commentary that is limited to 140 or 250 characters, is anonymous, and is published publicly without my permission. Which is why, you can see, that quick comments and star ratings are issues. Again, others should have the right to use these features, regardless of how much I believe they hurt discourse and promote disposable content consumerism, but I shouldn't be forced to use them.

I don't have any issue with an off topic forum, and I never did. Do I think it's going to work out? I'm skeptical, but that's not opposition. Same with an introduction forum. If you want it, sure, go ahead. I may even use it.

I actually think Zarxrax's updated New Vid on the Block is nifty, and depending on the final implementation, may enthusiastically support it.

Don't box me into some ultra-conservative, reactionary view. It's unfair, and it's inaccurate.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby 8bit_samurai » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:51 pm

Hey guys, this is great and all, but what about the users who don't even visit the forums and stuff? Is someone gonna notify them about this? I'd imagine they wouldn't care as long as they can adapt to it easily and the sort. Perhaps there are even some who just might have something to say or even might be able to help with the coding and the such. I myself doubt it, but you may never know.

I myself is one of those who doesn't really care as long as I can adapt to it easily. It seems the only thing I've grown accustomed to is the Super Search with the donator perks, so as long as this feature (or something similar/better) is kept, well, good for the Org.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Arigatomina » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:33 pm

Discount Menu wrote:Case in point: you're not allowed to introduce yourself to the community. The Off Topic forum was shut down because people were making friends

That's why the OT was shut down. Applying that reason to the removal of the intro section makes you wonder how you can have a community if you don't want new members making friends with existing members. ^^;

I agree with everything you said. The intro and OT sections invited members from the main site to come into the forum - especially viewers who don't make their own vids. At the time, Phade said the OT section: "...has become too much of a clique/social gathering of people who are not really contributing to world of anime music videos." Who are these people who don't contribute? I didn't know who those useless members were at the time, but a few years later it's blatantly obvious. The non-editing viewers. They're not creating, so they don't contribute amvs to the collection. They don't know how to make vids, so they have nothing useful to post in the editor-specific threads. There's a wall between those who post in the forum and the masses on main site, and without an intro section to invite them in, few of the non-contributing members (aka: the viewers) climb over it. The wall has kept most of them out of the forum for almost seven years now. Intentionally. Does the org really want to invite those useless members back into the forum?

I'd like to see an Intro section here. I'd be able to convice some of my viewer-only friends to join the org for their amv needs if I could point to an intro section and show them that the org forum is not just for editors, and that they *can* come here just to talk about their enjoyment of amvs with fellow fans. It would be so much more convenient than chatting in a single "amv" thread in a big forum that has nothing to do with amvs as a whole. They'd get a kick out of filling out their favorite vid lists and using the star ratings to have vids recommended to them, and all the little viewer-specific activies the org has to offer. But I don't think a section for them in this forum would work. I think the intro/ot sections would just end up being closed again for the same reasons they were closed in the first place - too much work for the mods and since those members don't make vids they're not contributing to the creation of new amvs. They can browse the library as much as they want, and the org could make it nice and comfortable for them out there, but since they're not restocking the shelves they don't belong in the back rooms.

Maybe a separate forum (small, simple, but permanent and thus better than chatrooms where you don't remember who you talked to from one day to the next) for non-editors, one linked out there on the main page where they can talk about vids as much as they want, with a single sticky inviting them over if they want more information about making vids themselves. Of course editors who want to talk to their fans can post over there as well, but those who prefer to distance themselves from their viewers can just pretend that forum doesn't exist. You could even have a link to this mini-forum sent out in the emails when a new member joins, that way they know where to go so their fellow viewers can show them around. I'd bet a lot of people join just to stream a local video, and then forget the site exists and never come back. If they were directed to a viewer-friendly forum the moment they join they might make some friends and decide to stick around long enough to become editors themselves.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Zarxrax » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:38 pm

I agree, we could use an introduction forum. That would be a nice first step towards improving things, and it wouldn't even really require more than a few minutes of work to actually implement it.
Is anyone in the current administration against this idea?
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby godix » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:04 am

Discount Menu wrote:
Pwolf wrote:everyone, don't even think about what's possible or what isn't possible or how difficult it would be to make. This time is for sharing ideas. When it comes time to put it all together i'm sure we can figure it out.


In that case I want a blowjob from a unicorn.

Won't the unicorn be stabbing you in the belly while it's bobbing on your knob?
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