The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Pwolf » Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:37 am

Begi wrote:
Pwolf wrote:multiple reasons being? if it's something we can fix, then i would like to know. i can't help it from being dead though unless more people start frequenting it :P

I just think it's pretty stupid overall.


If you're not willing to use the resources that are available because you "think its stupid" then somethings wrong. That's being lazy, grow up.

Begi wrote:
Pwolf wrote:The point is to figure out whats wrong and fix it, not add more stuff without actually figuring out what the problem is.


I said it a billion times already...THERE ISN'T ENOUGH INTERACTION (imo) BETWEEN EDITORS ON THE FORUM. That's the problem.


There's plenty of interaction on the forums. The resources are already there for what you want, which has been argued by several people already. It's not a problem.

Begi wrote:
gotegenks wrote:i think a section for betas would ENCOURAGE beta sharing, which would ENCOURAGE communication, connection, friendship, better editing, and activity, everything that outsiders say we lack.


I would agree to an extent but I really don't think it would make much of a difference. I say, go ahead and do it, lets see what happens, maybe it will help.

Next time, instead of saying the chatroom sucks because you personally think it's stupid, try making a more convincing argument for what you want without swearing at other people. I asked you the first time what was wrong with the chatroom and you never gave me an honest answer that supports your argument.

This thread is for discussing ideas. We can't make everything happen so there has to be a compromise. I've been offering the compromise, a resource that already exists. No one has given me a counter argument against it other then "it's stupid", "it's dead", or "they might be on vacation"... Seriously? I don't care what happens to the forum, if it gets a million more subforums, good for it. I want to make the chatroom a better place for people to get help and to interact with other editors.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby MycathatesyouAMV » Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:53 am

We need a beta section because I feel that in the Op Exchange forum it's literally discouraging to users to post just threads of their betas. Some betas are basically just mini vids for fun that it would be pointless to upload to the Org that it would be nice to just get some comments on a seperate place on the vid.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby JaddziaDax » Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:38 am

I'm not against a subforum for the record. I'm not for it either. I consider myself indifferent because I would never use it.

I would personally not use it, because if I really feel the need to beta test my video beyond my personal friends, then I will ask other people I know and respect by pm or aim. Asking random people on the interwebs is not my style. I don't upload betas to youtube either. However, if others use it then who am I to hold them back?

Anyway that aside, I guess I find "it's dead" about the chat room odd because every time I log in people are willing to talk as long as there's something to talk about. Maybe you just log on when everyone is asleep or something? I do not know.

I don't personally log in often for my own reasons. However if I keep up my current logging in pattern "JaddziaDax is in IRC the org must be broken" will become a meme.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Pwolf » Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:43 am

JaddziaDax wrote:I don't personally log in often for my own reasons. However if I keep up my current logging in pattern "JaddziaDax is in IRC the org must be broken" will become a meme.


That does seem to be the only time you log into the chatroom... 8-)
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Arigatomina » Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:14 am

Pwolf wrote:No one has given me a counter argument against it other then "it's stupid", "it's dead", or "they might be on vacation"... Seriously? I don't care what happens to the forum, if it gets a million more subforums, good for it. I want to make the chatroom a better place for people to get help and to interact with other editors.

The biggest problem with the chatroom is the fact that it's a chatroom. You don't know who was in there yesterday, you don't know what they talked about yesterday, you know anything you post today will be gone tomorrow. Chatrooms are a "this moment" free for all. You join, you jump into whatever conversation is going on and try to direct it to the reason you joined - your vids. If you post again tomorrow, you'll find yourself interrupting the conversation of a completely different group of people. Unless you get in there when it's empty, you'll always be the outsider butting in on someone else's conversation. A forum is a completely different venue from a chatroom and people who come looking for a forum don't want to be directed to a chatroom instead.

The chatroom is also seperate from the site. It's outside, across the street. People want their websites to have everything, all the little features they use on a dozen different sites rolled into one so they can move in and never step outside again. They want their website to be a mall with a little of everything all under the same roof. Some of these features don't belong here and really are better left to websites that focus primarily on them, or to off-topic chat in the chatroom. But when it comes to a place for editors to share their amv betas with fellow editors, that's completely ontopic and is the sort of thing the org is advertising when it draws them here. That's something they shouldn't have to go across the street from the org in order to find.

In my opinion, having new editors spam their vids in the chatroom is a great way to ensure they never come back. In the forum if they get no responses, then it's a general silence. They'll see other threads with no replies and realize they're not the only ones being ignored. When they're ignored in a chatroom it's done to their face, they see the people talking around them and take it personally. Unless they come back and lurk for days, they'll never know if this is common in that chatroom, if they just posted on a quiet day, or if it's just them getting the cold shoulder from the locals.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Nya-chan Production » Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:52 am

Begi wrote:@JaddziaDax
I've tried, no one talks.

Are you one of these people?

[20:06:08] * MystykAMV (~c1e12386@synIRC-A73562C4.nejanet-puk.ektf.hu) has joined #AMV
[20:06:46] <MystykAMV> yopeople
[20:12:09] * MystykAMV (~c1e12386@synIRC-A73562C4.nejanet-puk.ektf.hu) Quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout))

Just find the right time, goddamnit, the #AMV is rather chatty compared to some other channels I lurk in! I am in some channels where most of the stuff on the screen is joins/quits or locals spamming triggers. D:
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby OtakuGray » Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:33 am

Arigatomina wrote:
Pwolf wrote:No one has given me a counter argument against it other then "it's stupid", "it's dead", or "they might be on vacation"... Seriously? I don't care what happens to the forum, if it gets a million more subforums, good for it. I want to make the chatroom a better place for people to get help and to interact with other editors.


Then the topic should be: "Whats wrong with #amv?" :|
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby ngsilver » Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:09 am

OtakuGray wrote:Then the topic should be: "Whats wrong with #amv?" :|

#amv is a part of the org though. That's the thing. You see that option in the community section on the sitemap that says chatroom? It's listed there because it is part of the org. It has rules very similar to the org and is designed as a place for the org community to interact in a more personal and in the moment kind of way. So bringing the channel up is perfectly valid as part of the thread's title and focus.

If people WANT to see what goes on in the chat room I have a fairly accurate and well kept log of the chat since I joined about 5 years ago. I can go back years, so I'm not sure what's so 'only' in the moment about a chatroom. That's what logs are for.

Personally, I've never really had any trouble striking up or joining any convo going on and rarely I find the chatroom truly dead. And I fail to see the real benefit to creating another subforum for beta's considering the resource that's already there is rarely used. I wouldn't use it, I have other means for beta testing. And I think that's the real point here. Perhaps the reason no one uses the opinion forum for betas is not due to it seeming 'unfriendly' or anything to it, but because people already have other avenues they use for beta testing if they even wish to bother with beta testing at all. True, it could benefit a video to have other people look at it before it's released, but only if the editor feels like doing it.

And this all goes back to the original reason this was brought up, lack of interaction. We can add features and spruce things up all we want but that isn't going to really change the fact that 'no one' interacts. There are plenty of ways for people to interact with each other here on the org and yet they just don't do it. Sure it may seem like no one is interacting with an announcement thread when it goes for days without a reply, but that doesn't mean the main purpose wasn't achieved, that the video was viewed. Perhaps the viewers had nothing to say? I mean, can you really call a comment like 'I liked it' true interaction? To me I see the problem of lack of interaction something that can't really be fixed because it requires us to change the mindset of our members entirely which isn't easy to do. Heck, the majority of people who watch videos on Youtube don't actually comment. We can add commenting features and extra forums all we want but that truly wont change the silent majority that makes up the org's membership if they don't want to interact directly with other members. I mean, we could force them I suppose, but that'd just drive them away.

Personally, I don't think there really is a fix for this problem. It doesn't hurt to try, but in the end it is up to our new and lurking users to actually make any of these changes really work. The real question is, will they?
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Begi » Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:24 pm

How is the chatroom being stupid immature? I doubt that I'm the only person who doesn't like the chatroom. If you like it, that's fine. I don't expect you to tell me why you love it. I don't think there is any problem with the chatroom, I just don't like it. period.

I'm not saying that we need to make a subforum for betas, I'm giving an idea and seeing what people think of it. So far it's half and half. If you would've read my original statement you would've seen that they were just ideas that would "...ENCOURAGE communication, connection, friendship, better editing, and activity..."
I personally wouldn't probably use it because I have a studio and other friends who would be willing to beta test, but I think it's something that could help.

Pwolf wrote:There's plenty of interaction on the forums. The resources are already there for what you want, which has been argued by several people already. It's not a problem.


I'm guessing you didn't see the "(imo)"? Maybe we should ask who thinks there isn't enough interaction on the forum (excluding the chat since everyone doesn't use it).

So...
Who thinks there isn't enough interaction between editors on the forum?
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Begi » Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:28 pm

Nya-chan Production wrote:
Begi wrote:@JaddziaDax
I've tried, no one talks.

Are you one of these people?

[20:06:08] * MystykAMV (~c1e12386@synIRC-A73562C4.nejanet-puk.ektf.hu) has joined #AMV
[20:06:46] <MystykAMV> yopeople
[20:12:09] * MystykAMV (~c1e12386@synIRC-A73562C4.nejanet-puk.ektf.hu) Quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout))

Just find the right time, goddamnit, the #AMV is rather chatty compared to some other channels I lurk in! I am in some channels where most of the stuff on the screen is joins/quits or locals spamming triggers. D:


Yea I guess I am one of those people, but why does it have to be like that EVERYTIME I sign in. It's not like I've been in there once or twice. I've been in there plenty of times. Sure, it's not ALWAYS dead but most of the times I've signed in there wasn't a chat. I guess it's just coincidence that I sign on 20 times and everyone be asleep? Yea...I fucking doubt it.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Fall_Child42 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:39 pm

Begi wrote:
Nya-chan Production wrote:
Begi wrote:@JaddziaDax
I've tried, no one talks.

Are you one of these people?

[20:06:08] * MystykAMV (~c1e12386@synIRC-A73562C4.nejanet-puk.ektf.hu) has joined #AMV
[20:06:46] <MystykAMV> yopeople
[20:12:09] * MystykAMV (~c1e12386@synIRC-A73562C4.nejanet-puk.ektf.hu) Quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout))

Just find the right time, goddamnit, the #AMV is rather chatty compared to some other channels I lurk in! I am in some channels where most of the stuff on the screen is joins/quits or locals spamming triggers. D:


Yea I guess I am one of those people, but why does it have to be like that EVERYTIME I sign in. It's not like I've been in there once or twice. I've been in there plenty of times. Sure, it's not ALWAYS dead but most of the times I've signed in there wasn't a chat. I guess it's just coincidence that I sign on 20 times and everyone be asleep? Yea...I fucking doubt it.


It depends,

Did you sign on at different times of the day?
Did you stick around for any varying length of time?

I mean if you do the same thing 20 times and expect different results that's kind of silly.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Begi » Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:44 pm

Yes lol. I'm not insane to try the same thing over and over that many times.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:44 pm

The point of including the timestamp in that excerpt was to show the person was logged in for all of 6 minutes. 6 minutes is not trying - not by a long shot.

-----

MycathatesyouAMV wrote:We need a beta section because I feel that in the Op Exchange forum it's literally discouraging to users to post just threads of their betas.
Substantiate this feeling with supporting evidence. Next explain how having another forum with the exact same people on it would result in an atmosphere any different than the current one.

For this to be a discussion thread we need to discuss things. Saying "I feel" "I think" or "It's my opinion" isn't a free pass to state a viewpoint without then asserting the (rational and logical) reasoning behind it when asked to elaborate.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Nya-chan Production » Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:44 pm

Simple statistics (I filtered those manually):

#AMV wrote 1060 lines of dialogue today (no Quit, Join, Rename lines, counting only /say and /me) in 21:49, which means roughly 0.8 post per minute, distributed unevenly, of course. And this, as I have gone through it, seemed like one of the calmer days to me.

Also I wasn't participating the whole day, might be why (sleeping, work, dinner out).

-----------------------------------------------------------

If under the term "chat" you imagine a channel where there are constantly about 5 posts per second (mostly type of OLOLOLOLOL or Yo' mom!) I can recommend a few. Sadly, I don't think they bother much with AMVs and even if they did they wouldn't give betas a lot of attention, I suppose.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby gotegenks » Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:07 pm

BasharOfTheAges wrote:
MycathatesyouAMV wrote:We need a beta section because I feel that in the Op Exchange forum it's literally discouraging to users to post just threads of their betas.
Substantiate this feeling with supporting evidence. Next explain how having another forum with the exact same people on it would result in an atmosphere any different than the current one.

i feel like that too kinda, it's like being gay in a church that says they're accepting but is still a little cold towards you. every beta thread i've seen has 1 or 2 replies and they're almost always from kaream, who is one of those people that hardly ever finishes videos. I've seen beta tester sign-up threads that get some more attention, but they're usually by semi-popular editors who are starting some big project.

A LAMV contest is going to get a lot more LAMV entries than an AMV contest that also accepts LAMVs. I know a few people who never make fulls, and while they usually just go to youtube, this could be an attraction for them, for a different sort of editor. also i think if people do like the beta section, it'll give the OP subforum as a whole more attention (for those of you who feel like it's lacking).
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