The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

[Kionon]

If you're actually serious, then let's have this out, because, yes, I thought you were trolling.

I already believe this community is dying, and turning it into another social network site won't save it, it'll just turn it into a different community with AMV slapped on it.

[Nya-chan Production]

If you're actually serious, then let's have this out, because, yes, I thought you were trolling.

I already believe this community is dying, and turning it into another social network site won't save it, it'll just turn it into a different community with AMV slapped on it.

And you can't stand that, because it would hurt you personally.

FYI, I can speak only for myself, so this is NOT an admin point of view, but everything you stated in these threads I pretty much ignored, because it's exactly as stated - we need to move forward, otherwise we'll turn into a private lobby for few stuck-up editors. And as much as I know this would please you I think that most of the Org users wouldn't be pleased by that.

In other words - we don't redesign the Org for you,. but for community (or at least we're trying).

[Ikore]

If I want public commentary, I will make an announcement thread.

and how long will it give you feedback, 2 weeks a month at least?

I understand that the org is a mean to be a catalog, but the whole archive design should not be so complicated and it should allow a place for interaction and feedback, moving ideas back and forth, not just the editor should receive information about his/her AMV any one else watching the amv, should have access to the provided critic, I know that feature is available, I just think it should be of an easy access for anyone else...

the redesign should be to make things better, not necessary different.

[Kionon]

And you can't stand that, because it would hurt you personally.

How? It will hurt discourse. It won't hurt me besides possibly inconveniencing me now and again.

FYI, I can speak only for myself, so this is NOT an admin point of view, but everything you stated in these threads I pretty much ignored, because it's exactly as stated - we need to move forward, otherwise we'll turn into a private lobby for few stuck-up editors. And as much as I know this would please you I think that most of the Org users wouldn't be pleased by that.

Unfair, uncalled for, and completely inaccurate, Nya. I expected better from you. Anyone who was in #amv tonight knows how seriously I take the issue of why some members now may not feel they can participate, and the others may be driven away. Just because I don't share your philosophy doesn't mean I wish to turn this into a "private lobby for a few stuck up editors."

In other words - we don't redesign the Org for you,. but for community (or at least we're trying).

Not asking for that. I am asking that we be reasonable and respect all views, including those of conservatives. When I stated we would become a different community, I do not mean would we would grow and change and progress, these are all good things, within reason. I was saying that we would become an entirely different media site, one with community standards and that are not ours, but rather represent a growing trend in disposable content consumerism I thought we stood firmly against.

Yes, we should grow, progress, and ultimately, change, but we must do so without losing ourselves.

[inthesto]

Yes, we should grow, progress, and ultimately, change, but we must do so without losing ourselves.

Please define "ourselves". I've been here for about six years, and here's the Org culture distilled into bulletpoints:

- Talking about the same handful of topics over and over again
- Giant quoteblocks to keep announcement threads at the top of the page
- Continued suggestions that the site is a catalogue and not a community, i.e. socializing is bad

Frankly, all three of these suck.

[inthesto]

Okay, I'll actually offer to be productive now and write on why the Org needs a public social forum.

The quickest way to say it is that if I didn't know how to use IRC six years ago, I sure as hell wouldn't have stuck around this community for six years. I doubt I would have even made it one. People like to socialize, and there's no easy way for anyone to do it here. Yes, I know you anti-OT people are going to point me to the IRC room and the journal system. IRC isn't easy for new people to use, and just try to keep track of a conversation between journals. And even if you're going to pull the "hurr durr IRC keeps all the idiots out" argument, that ignores the point that you have to go out of your way to socialize in this community. It's hard to make friends in this place, and it's not because people are generally unfriendly (I will admit there's a list of users that are unfriendly and will drive newbies off in any case, but they are a minority), but because the structure of this site discourages it.

Case in point: you're not allowed to introduce yourself to the community. You're expected to kind of just slip in, but given how this community handles discussions (i.e. everyone parroting their opinions for the 500th time and not paying a single drop of attention to anything anyone else says), you're going to go unnoticed forever. Ever wonder why there's so few new people in this community? It's not just because we're perceived as elitist, but because our forums suck. We are literally not allowed to talk about anything that doesn't have to do with AMVs. Not that the moderators are completely senseless in this regard, but just take a gander at the list of our forums. And guess what? When every single thing you talk about has to do with the hobby, yes that's going to perpetuate the elitist stereotype.

I talked to one of the older moderators a few nights ago, and he told me the official reasoning for shutting down the old Off Topic forum. It ran along the lines of people forming cliques, and having in-jokes that were alienating new users. Allow me to rephrase, to maximize the absurdity: The Off Topic forum was shut down because people were making friends. Apparently, the solution to alienation of new users was to alienate everyone. Now nobody can make friends, and look at how well it's served us.

Now, I know somebody is going to counterpoint me with the statement that seems to be hot recently, something like "The Org is first and foremost a catalogue." I'll just say now that everyone needs to stop saying that. Catalogues are shitty, boring, inhuman, and nobody who likes interesting things wants to be part of one. I don't really care what Phade's vision was, if it even still exists, but calling this community a catalogue is nailing our feet to the ground and saying "Welp." Has anyone actually spent time in the Org's catalogue, just perusing it for fun?

Since I'm drifting off topic, I'll just close out with another pre-emptive counterpoint to the inevitable "we already have IRC" argument. Guess what? We can have both! I know, it's absolute madness, but plenty of communities do it too, and it doesn't cost us anything. Imagine that.

[Otohiko]

^This is brilliant. I fully support these arguments, and I hope other moderators and admins take note of them as well.

[Pwolf]

^This is brilliant. I fully support these arguments, and I hope other moderators and admins take note of them as well.

x2 and the #1 reason I wanted to start these threads... if we don't have these discussions, people will get pissed off. There are ways to get what everyone wants. It is possible to allow multiple layouts if that's what the community wants. It is possible to have someone opt out of getting comments or opinions. These are all things that the programmers will have to do and should be thought of BEFORE THEY DO ALL THE WORK as it seems the org staff was planning >:|

[inthesto]

. There are ways to get what everyone wants.|

This claim, of course, requires a Kionon Exception Clause.

[Pwolf]

. There are ways to get what everyone wants.|

This claim, of course, requires a Kionon Exception Clause.

if people want an ignore kionon user filter, i don't see why that cant be done. But just because you don't like someone doesn't mean they don't have anything important to say. Kio is perfectly right about his opinion on video comments. there are users out there who would rather not have any comments made public attached to their video and would much prefer to either post a topic in the forum or not post anything. I don't see any reason why we wouldn't be able to implement something of that sort. I personally would like the option to disable comments and opinions on some videos. There are just some videos I don't want comments on directly. It should be an option you would be able to edit while adding a new video or editing an existing one.

And to defend the point of these threads, NO ONE'S OPINION SHOULD EVER BE IGNORED! I don't care who it is. If I was an admin of this site i would fire Nya for making the comments he made towards Kio. As a moderator and part of the staff, you should be more open to other's ideas. We are trying to make this site better for the community and ignoring someone's valid opinion isn't forward progress, it's backwards. You don't ignore an opinion you don't like, you discuss it. As Nya said, this is for the community not just the org staff.