Philosophy in Anime

This forum is for the general discussion of Anime.

Re: Philosophy in Anime

Postby 8bit_samurai » Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:46 pm

Is it worth hundreds or even thousands of lives to solve your own personal problems? Or who is it to decide the fate of said lives?

If you found a document that discloses a cheaper, more efficient cure to a deadly disease than the one that is already available, and nothing is being done about it or no one knows about it other those mentioned in the document, what do you do?

What if God was one of us?
Under Construction
User avatar
8bit_samurai
Hmm...
 
Joined: 17 May 2006
Location: Alaska

Re: Philosophy in Anime

Postby Athena » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:21 am

8bit_samurai wrote:Is it worth hundreds or even thousands of lives to solve your own personal problems? Or who is it to decide the fate of said lives?

If you found a document that discloses a cheaper, more efficient cure to a deadly disease than the one that is already available, and nothing is being done about it or no one knows about it other those mentioned in the document, what do you do?

What if God was one of us?


These are excellent questions. What anime series do they show up in, and how are the questions demonstrated?
Image
User avatar
Athena
I ♥ the 80's
 
Joined: 02 Mar 2001
Location: Japan
Status: Sad Girl on Mac

Re: Philosophy in Anime

Postby 8bit_samurai » Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:01 am

Actually, when I first saw this thread title, I instantly thought of GitS and FMA. I was tryna find how those would relate to this thread with all the mindfuck and such from anything GitS and the Philosopher's Stone from FMA. I was tryna reword the second question or come up with something different from the series but I ran outta time during lunch. The third question kinda came to me at the spur of the moment and it stuck with me during work. But the more I thought about it, the more pointless it seemed to me :/ Which is also true for most posts I make, actually.

But yeah, first one's FMA (plot device, probably), second one's GitS:SAC (Laughing Man's motivation for blackmailing) and third one's Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (Haruhi), although they (or more like the first one) can probably be applied to others.
Under Construction
User avatar
8bit_samurai
Hmm...
 
Joined: 17 May 2006
Location: Alaska

Re: Philosophy in Anime

Postby Knowname » Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:13 pm

hasteroth wrote:And if I might point someone towards an anime that could make for interesting discussion (or not, depends on how you see it)

see Welcome to the NHK

Golden Boy xD 'A different side of me' really touched upon it, The show isn't all about T&A and all. It may not be 'Philosophical' like Gantz or Lain, but it has it's morales. I hate (all other) Golden Boy AMVs cuz it's really HARD to do that show justice.

What I really like is when a show dives into religious philosophy/ folklore (but keeps it fun as well!) like Angel Sanctuary (not so much EVA... I said KEEPS IT FUN, that's too deep... though the filler episodes are fun), or even X, Soultaker (not sure about this one... soul something, the one with the flying cat! not Totorro style) and Ayashi No Ceres.

Kionon wrote:
hasteroth wrote:I have to say that there are a few anime that touch on philosophy but the vast majority are purely for entertainment. And most anime that do touch on this subject do not even present original arguments but rather reuse tired old ones.


Then you are not watching critically enough. Aside from Eva jokes, I look at my source wall, and I see KOR (shown above), Utena, (wow, so many places to go with this one), Maison Ikkoku (philosophy in there, really), Genshiken (oooh, Philosophy OF Fandom, dew eet), Trigun (really now, do I need to mention it), TokiKake (philosophy is at the heart of the entire movie!), BGC (is Priss a Replicant?)... Dude, seriously. Try again.

Now if this was about psychology I could go on and on and on... but my personal philosophy is ridiculously simple and I don't care to analyze the philosophies of others.


This is an improper use of the word philosophy, at least as it relates to the topic at hand. The mundane, common everyday word we toss around (much to the moaning and gnashing of teeth by philosophers, or even serious students of philosophy) does not reflect the meaning of philosophy. Philosophy is not a point of view, rather it is a collection of differing views on a subject or all subjects in the pursuit of knowledge. It literally means the love of knowledge. You may have a particular belief set, and you may even have a reasoned system of arguments for defending your belief set, but you do not "have a philosophy" and nor does anyone else. In fact, I would argue, as would many philosophers, that unless you do have a reasoned system of arguments for defending your belief set, merely having a belief set would not warrant a claim by you that you are participating in philosophy.

tl,dr version- you're using the word wrong, stop that.

sorry to say but I agree with Hasteroth... maybe not too the point, I think anime is 50/50, but c'mon!! lol
BGC (is Priss a Replicant?)
that's not philosophy lol, it's psychology!! lol Philosophy (as I understand it, you obviously overrate me on this subject, but jmo) deals with a bunch of ppl. How does that reality deal with anybody other than her and her little anime group. I don't know, I'm probably nit picking in places I don't belong lol (jmo) and I'm no BGC fan, only seen a few episodes if that, I'm imagining it's like asking 'can androids like Ghost in the Shell really love?? Who F@!%!ing CARES?? Shows like Birdy (the original), KOR, Macross, or Golden Boy and more recently Clannad, Toradora, Aishiteru Ze Baby have morales and personal significance. Not Philosophy. It's hard to really display the difference but... would your life really change if you had seen Love Hina rather than Trigun? No.
If you do not think so... you will DIE
User avatar
Knowname
 
Joined: 16 Nov 2002
Location: Sanity, USA (on the edge... very edge)
Status: Indubitably

Re: Philosophy in Anime

Postby Athena » Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:12 pm

Knowname wrote:that's not philosophy lol, it's psychology!! lol Philosophy (as I understand it, you obviously overrate me on this subject, but jmo) deals with a bunch of ppl. How does that reality deal with anybody other than her and her little anime group. I don't know, I'm probably nit picking in places I don't belong lol (jmo) and I'm no BGC fan, only seen a few episodes if that, I'm imagining it's like asking 'can androids like Ghost in the Shell really love?? Who F@!%!ing CARES?? Shows like Birdy (the original), KOR, Macross, or Golden Boy and more recently Clannad, Toradora, Aishiteru Ze Baby have morales and personal significance. Not Philosophy. It's hard to really display the difference but... would your life really change if you had seen Love Hina rather than Trigun? No.


Moral Philosophy, also known as Ethics, is one of the oldest areas of philosophy, going all the way back to the ancient Greeks, and possibly further, since what we have from the Greeks was actually written down. What you're talking about when you talk about how these shows have something to say about this issue of morality, that is philosophy.

As for questions like what is love, could artificial lifeforms love, etc. Who cares? Well, I imagine a wide range of people do, not just philosophers. Science fiction writers, cyberneticists, neurologists... Before they could be who they are, they all had to ask philosophical questions. Is Priss a Replicant (or Boomer, in actual BGC terms) is not merely psychology. The questions of whether she is a person regardless of her physical makeup once again is philosophy.
Image
User avatar
Athena
I ♥ the 80's
 
Joined: 02 Mar 2001
Location: Japan
Status: Sad Girl on Mac

Re: Philosophy in Anime

Postby Sukunai » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:57 am

Ghost in the Shell. The only anime to totally blow me away with deep thinking.

What IS is to be human?
If you download your mind into a machine, are you still human?

How much of your physical self is required to still be a human and not a machine?

Is our mind really organic at all?

Yes, fortunately anime is not all bouncy tits, panty shots and naked school girls in hot springs.
Nor is it fight scenes that take several episodes to resolve and outrageous space ships with inexhaustible sums of weapons.

I've never watched the Ghost in the Shell series though. Didn't want to risk it ruining my memories of a truly awesome movie.
Anime, one of the few things about the internet that doesn't make me hate the internet.
User avatar
Sukunai
 
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Location: Ontario Canada

Re: Philosophy in Anime

Postby Willen » Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:02 am

Sukunai wrote:I've never watched the Ghost in the Shell series though. Didn't want to risk it ruining my memories of a truly awesome movie.

The GitS: Stand Alone Complex series are pretty different from the movie in feel and direction. It shares the same cast, but it's more thriller/suspense/action show with some of the themes of the movie. They are good on their own. And some of the same philosophical questions are brought up in some of the episodes and story arcs.

Are the Tachikomas alive?

If you can download your self to a machine that means you can treat your 'ghost' like data, what happens if you get a virus (the computer kind)? If your 'ghost' data gets corrupted...

If your body is already artificial and you can treat your memories like data and make copies of them, what's to stop you from making multiple copies of yourself? And then, which is the real you?

If an android acts like a human, and you treat it like another human, does its status change? How different are they from a previously biological person in an artificial body?

GitS: SAC is a pretty solid series and if treated as a stand-alone work (pun intended), shouldn't diminish the original movie.
Having trouble playing back videos? I recommend: Image
User avatar
Willen
Now in Hi-Def!
 
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Location: SOS-Dan HQ
Status: Melancholy

Re: Philosophy in Anime

Postby Knowname » Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:13 pm

yeah, you gotta see the tachicomas, they're not in the movie. Unless their in the second one... I forget.
If you do not think so... you will DIE
User avatar
Knowname
 
Joined: 16 Nov 2002
Location: Sanity, USA (on the edge... very edge)
Status: Indubitably

Re: Philosophy in Anime

Postby Otohiko » Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:22 pm

Knowname wrote:yeah, you gotta see the tachicomas, they're not in the movie. Unless their in the second one... I forget.


Uh, there is most definitely a Tachikoma in the first movie. The whole final action sequence is centred around one.
Otohiko
 
Joined: 05 May 2003

Re: Philosophy in Anime

Postby Knowname » Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:40 pm

oh that tank?? I never noticed that lol... it never talked (to me)...
If you do not think so... you will DIE
User avatar
Knowname
 
Joined: 16 Nov 2002
Location: Sanity, USA (on the edge... very edge)
Status: Indubitably

Re: Philosophy in Anime

Postby 76 » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:47 pm

The tank in gits:sac is not a tachikoma. They are ai-driven mobile combat units, while the tank was a human operated vehicle.

There is an episode where the tachikomas discuss their individuality.

I feel that 'the girl who leapt through time' would be good discussion, though I'm not sure how to get it going.

What I conclude about individuality: is that it is a man-made justification of our dominance as a species as well as existence. In reality we have no rights and no purpose, other than what you could contrive from our instincts of survival. The very act of searching for meanings supports our lack thereof.
Everything came from nothing, therefore everything is nothing.

There's nothing to worry about.
User avatar
76
Ninja mother-figure
 
Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Location: in the clouds, crying over a dying world
Status: Learning

Re: Philosophy in Anime

Postby 76 » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:55 pm

While I'm at it, another yarn: why is it that we assume that there must be a grand creator? Just because something is, means that there was a time when it was not?

Humans only create by reorganizing matter as we find it! There is no originality as time tells.
Is this another desperate cry for individuality?
Everything came from nothing, therefore everything is nothing.

There's nothing to worry about.
User avatar
76
Ninja mother-figure
 
Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Location: in the clouds, crying over a dying world
Status: Learning

Re: Philosophy in Anime

Postby Panky » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:30 pm

76 wrote:While I'm at it, another yarn: why is it that we assume that there must be a grand creator? Just because something is, means that there was a time when it was not?


In fact, like you're saying, if there is a grand creator, there was a time when it was not, because the fact of thinking that it really exists, is the same than thinking that something else created it at the same time. If there is an assumption that there really is a god, it's because people in general need something to look up to, something to believe in. That way, you could get released from clearly thinking who you are, where you came from, the reason for existing, and many other existencial matters. In my case, I don't believe, but I'm pretty sure it would be that case in many other personal cases.

TGWLTT didn't seem that philosophical to me, it was more like striving for each other characters survival without further thoughts about it (that's what I think, though). The explanation about what happened in the future was never really explained so I wouldn't know more details to expand to.

76 wrote:Humans only create by reorganizing matter as we find it! There is no originality as time tells.Is this another desperate cry for individuality?


What did you mean with that?
User avatar
Panky
 
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Location: some place called Kokomo...
Status: dozing...

Re: Philosophy in Anime

Postby 76 » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:49 pm

It was an abstract support for my words on individuality. Since humans are incapable of creating matter we only 'create' by rearanging matter.

Sorry for the confusion.
Everything came from nothing, therefore everything is nothing.

There's nothing to worry about.
User avatar
76
Ninja mother-figure
 
Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Location: in the clouds, crying over a dying world
Status: Learning

Re: Philosophy in Anime

Postby Panky » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:01 pm

76 wrote:It was an abstract support for my words on individuality. Since humans are incapable of creating matter we only 'create' by rearanging matter.

Sorry for the confusion.


Oh, I think I might have read that part quickly, my bad instead. I kind of get what you mean, and it's true that there's a rearranging of matters, you can't get something from somewhere there isn't. It's not like there's no originality but as time passes, there are less "new" things to "create" if that is what you're meaning. Although I don't really know if hit the point.
User avatar
Panky
 
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Location: some place called Kokomo...
Status: dozing...

PreviousNext

Return to General Anime

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest