End of Eva idea...

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End of Eva idea...

Postby longview606 » Sat Nov 23, 2002 11:13 pm

After watching the series over again I had a strange idea. I was thinking that episodes 25 and 26 took place during End of Eva. Most of it took place while Shinji was deciding the fate of man kind inside that column thing. Some parts took place earlier in the movie like when Asuka was curled up in unit two at the bottom of the lake. Maybe it is just me but this is what I think happened in the last two episodes and End of Eva.
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Postby baggies » Sat Nov 23, 2002 11:19 pm

TONS of people share that view. but most find it faulty as end of eva wasn't even supposed to be made. but during the last two episodes i think it was implied that end of eva was going on and the creator just didnt feel like screwing up an extremely deep and momentous...moment, with pretty mechs hitting each other with retarded swords that make SWISH and CLANG noises. there's the occasional beep too

where the hell is uncle milo? he's the one to talk to about this stuff. allbeit trivial and related to a crappy series, ahem...what?
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Postby nailz » Sun Nov 24, 2002 10:54 am

if I remember correctly, EoE took place 2 weeks before the final 2 episodes.
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Postby moooooo » Sun Nov 24, 2002 3:26 pm

i thought that for a long time, but now I think differently. I feel like a version of end of eva is happening during episode 25-26, but it is kinda an alternate universe thing. Similiar events are taking place, but the outcomes are different.
In the series, Shinji gives into instrumentality. In the movie, he rejects it. If you look at it that way, the movie and the series can't be part of the same reality. I know I didn't word it right, sorry :?
check out the evaotaku site, he has a lot of good ideas on the subject.
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Postby nailz » Sun Nov 24, 2002 5:12 pm

I didn't mean for it to be a part of the series, reguardless of when it took place. It was the END of Eva.. not a prelude to episode 25 and 26.
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Postby ShipPagan » Tue Nov 26, 2002 11:56 am

End of Evangelion is a "theatrical remake" of episodes 25 and 26.

"Episode 25: Do you Love me?" Became "Episode 25: Air" and "Episode 26: Take Care Of Yourself" Became "Episode 26 - One more Final: I Need You"

You could take it that the original episodes 25 and 26 were turned into episode 26 I Need You, and that 25 Air was to show what cause the 3rd Impact. Fans didn't like the ending of the seires. Hideaki Anno didn't like the fans for not liking the ending of the seires. He made EoE (mood) angry. So we weren't much better off, just found out how 3rd Impact occured is all. Personally I understood the series finals just fine, I didn't see the problem people had.
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Postby ShipPagan » Tue Nov 26, 2002 11:59 am

As said above, Shinji gave into Instrumentality in the series, but in the movie he didn't. Hideaki Anno made EoE different on purpose, because he was pissed off.
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Postby CaTaClYsM » Tue Nov 26, 2002 12:04 pm

both endings sucked, that is all that realy matters.
So in other words, one part of the community is waging war on another part of the community because they take their community seriously enough to want to do so. Then they tell the powerless side to get over the loss cause it's just an online community. I'm glad people make so much sense." -- Tab
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Postby UncleMilo » Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:41 am

I am not going to talk much here, becuase I dislike talking about EVA on this board for many reasons.

However... End of EVA does still fit into the continuity of Evangelion.

If you think that END starts where EP 24 leaves off... and then you sort of have to cut and paste eps 25 and 26 from the TV series with the events in the movie.

Eps 25 and 26 of the TV series are not chronological... it jumps back and forth, it explores the minds of the characters... but EPS 25 and 26 mostly happen after everyone is reduced to LCL fluid and become part of the big ol' mass mind.


Still... the final message is the message of the TV series. If you must include END OF EVA into the TV series, then know that the real message of the show is still the last part of the TV series.

I mostly wish END OF EVA was never made... but the writer knew his whole story and so END OF EVA and the TV series will mesh... but you have to understand the story to work it all out...

Most of END OF EVA is just the surface story concluded for those who just have to have everything spelled out for them.

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Postby CaTaClYsM » Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:47 am

In the movie everyone was LCLed and broken out of the mass mind, but sicne they couldn't return to their bodies they were kind of dead, and in the series shinji decided to go along with the whole false reality thing. Either way the endings sucked. And the only message is that this is what you get when you trust the fate of mankind to a psychologicaly damaged boy.
So in other words, one part of the community is waging war on another part of the community because they take their community seriously enough to want to do so. Then they tell the powerless side to get over the loss cause it's just an online community. I'm glad people make so much sense." -- Tab
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Postby UncleMilo » Wed Nov 27, 2002 4:00 am

Well... then you missed the whole show, didn't you.

IN THE TV SHOW, SHINJI DID NOT CHOOSE THE FALSE REALITY!!!!

HE DIDN'T!

If you didn't even figure that out, you just shouldn't be watching the show!

They don't applaud Shinji for choosing the fake reality! They applaud him because he chooses reality... he has found his self worth and he is willing to take on the pains life has to offer!!

The episode is called "The Beast Who Shouted "I""

Man is the beast that shouts I! We are the only race that actually grasps the concept of identity...

Shinji finds it and he is the Beast that shouts I!!

I - as in I, myself... an acknowledgement of the self!

Shinji comes to terms with himself and REJECTS instrumentality!!!!

THE WHOLE MESSAGE OF THE TV SHOW IS AN EMPOWERING MESSAGE OF HOW WE MUST GO THROUGH THE TRIALS OF FINDING OUR OWN SELF IMAGE AND OUR OWN VALUE IN THIS WORLD!

There are other more complicated issues discussed in the TV show...but DAMN! It's the f'in' title! And it's written in ENGLISH...

THE BEAST THAT SHOUTED "I"

Can't you even figure that one out???

As for the movie...

the bodies BECOME the LCL fluid...

There are two possibilities here...
1) The People can CHOOSE to redefine themselves as individuals and they will regain their form. This seemed implied in the movie...

2) If Shinji holds the future in his hands... and he chooses to live in the world rather than just be part of a mass-mind... then he would have to restore the people.

I'm not sure which is the more accurate here... but it's not that important... because all that matters is Shinji chooses to live again as man, amongst men. He is willing to deal with the pains that life has to offer, because he now has an understanding of his self and his own sense of worth will give him the strength to seek out what he desires in his life and be what he chooses...

He chooses life over non-existance
He chooses self over compliance
He chooses real over illusion.


-Uncle Milo
There are two kinds of people in this world:
Those who divide people into two kinds of groups
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Postby CaTaClYsM » Wed Nov 27, 2002 5:30 am

http://www.evaotaku.com/html/evafaq2.html

evafaq2.htm wrote:In the TV ending Shinji chose to stay with Complementation - it isn't even clear that Shinji had a choice at all. He is treated as little more than an example of the process of Complementation - which consisted if breaking down Shinji's link to reality. In the end, Shinji looks at the world of Complementation and smiling happily says "I understand! I can exist here!" He is then congratulated for his decision, by friends living and dead (Kaji), a healthy Touji with his leg still on, and even PenPen. A surreal ending scene to say the least. This ending is similar in context and theme to the ending of George Orwell's book, 1984.

Conversely, the film ends in the opposite manner. Shinji does have a choice and in the last moments of the film utterly rejects Complementation precisely because it eliminates the link to reality, it establishes a false paradise. Complementation is basically a cop-out, and Shinji has matured enough to realize this. The tone at the end of the film isn't a surreal, almost drug-induced, joyful "Congratulations!" for Shinji, but the cold and harsh reality of life.

Further, the Newtype Filmbook description for the scene states (literally):
"Amidst the many words of congratulations, a faint smile starts at the corners of Shinji's mouth (and spreads across his face).
A happy face -- that is the figure of the Complemented Shinji. This conclusion is also one form, one possibility among many."
(Translated by Bochan Bird)

So in other words, one part of the community is waging war on another part of the community because they take their community seriously enough to want to do so. Then they tell the powerless side to get over the loss cause it's just an online community. I'm glad people make so much sense." -- Tab
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Postby CaTaClYsM » Wed Nov 27, 2002 5:04 pm

And just so you know I think the series ending would have been crappier if it meant that he DIDN'T choose complimentation.
So in other words, one part of the community is waging war on another part of the community because they take their community seriously enough to want to do so. Then they tell the powerless side to get over the loss cause it's just an online community. I'm glad people make so much sense." -- Tab
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