How Sailor Moon Made Me A Feminist, Too

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purplepolecat
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Re: How Sailor Moon Made Me A Feminist, Too

Postby purplepolecat » Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:12 pm

Kionon wrote:Given that shoujo, at its base, (as I explained to Beowolf in my feminist critique of misogyny in AMV spaces) is not remotely about the male gaze or for the male gaze (written by women for girls), these queer identities cannot be seen as mere fanservice for male watchers. In many cases, I'd argue male interest in this homosocial, homoerotic (even overtly homosexual, like Haruka/Michiru) element of shoujo is entirely coincidental. Perhaps not unexpected, but in spite and of not because of the inclusion of these themes. I'm fairly certain the feminists who have written on shoujo before would agree. Yes, there are anime series which exploit elements of shoujo, including homosocial behavior for the male gaze (Kampfer immediately comes to mind), they are not shoujo and should not be classified as such.


I dunno about that. Ikuhara is a big yuri fan, he constantly pushed for more explicit yuri in Utena TV and finally got it in AoU. When asked why, he said that he liked to see girls kissing. Male gaze, and definitely not coincidental.

Personally I find yuri a lot MORE erotic when the girls have a complex but believable relationship, than when nominally straight girls start grabbing each others boobs for no reason.

So IMHO male-gaze yuri fanservice and a strong feminist message are not mutually exclusive.

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Kionon
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Re: How Sailor Moon Made Me A Feminist, Too

Postby Kionon » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:27 am

purplepolecat wrote:I dunno about that. Ikuhara is a big yuri fan, he constantly pushed for more explicit yuri in Utena TV and finally got it in AoU. When asked why, he said that he liked to see girls kissing. Male gaze, and definitely not coincidental.

Personally I find yuri a lot MORE erotic when the girls have a complex but believable relationship, than when nominally straight girls start grabbing each others boobs for no reason.

So IMHO male-gaze yuri fanservice and a strong feminist message are not mutually exclusive.


Yes, but what did Chiho Saitou have to say about that?

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purplepolecat
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Re: How Sailor Moon Made Me A Feminist, Too

Postby purplepolecat » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:44 am

Kionon wrote:
purplepolecat wrote:I dunno about that. Ikuhara is a big yuri fan, he constantly pushed for more explicit yuri in Utena TV and finally got it in AoU. When asked why, he said that he liked to see girls kissing. Male gaze, and definitely not coincidental.

Personally I find yuri a lot MORE erotic when the girls have a complex but believable relationship, than when nominally straight girls start grabbing each others boobs for no reason.

So IMHO male-gaze yuri fanservice and a strong feminist message are not mutually exclusive.


Yes, but what did Chiho Saitou have to say about that?

She was the one trying to stop him from putting the yuri in, IIRC. If you look at the manga, it's much more "traditional" shojo. (Juri is straight! :shock: )

EDIT: Ikuhara also hated Tuxedo Mask because his pairing with Usagi was too boring.

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Kionon
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Re: How Sailor Moon Made Me A Feminist, Too

Postby Kionon » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:03 pm

Rhetorical question. I knew the answer. I will say that Juri/Shiori is my favorite pairing, so I was shocked to find out the relationship was not in the manga. I still adore the manga, mind you.

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purplepolecat
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Re: How Sailor Moon Made Me A Feminist, Too

Postby purplepolecat » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:42 pm

No no, let me continue mansplaining your favorite anime to you :wink:

So, if Ikuhara got his way and Tuxedo Mask was eliminated from Sailor Moon, would that make it a stronger series from a feminist perspective? I've heard some people criticize SM for having the Senshi rely on him too much.

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Kionon
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Re: How Sailor Moon Made Me A Feminist, Too

Postby Kionon » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:20 am

100 Points for appropriate (and amusing) use of "mansplaining," and uhm, I don't know. It depends on how he was eliminated. We both know who saves who in episode 200...

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Re: How Sailor Moon Made Me A Feminist, Too

Postby Ryvannis » Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:14 pm

I'm going to be the honest person here and say that I have only 3 episodes of Sailor Moon, as a child. I'll just run and hide now. :sweat:


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