Final Cut Express: Horrible export quality

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Re: Final Cut Express: Horrible export quality

Postby Athena » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:38 am

OK. I have a solution.

If you have x264Encoder installed, then you can encode directly out of FCE into the MOV container. Normally this is frowned upon, but the results I came out with worked well. You should see this screen:

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Options allows you to mess will all sorts of things. But for the successful test, other than using a 2500kbps rate and changing to multi-pass, I pretty much didn't really stray from the defaults.

Set Size to NTSC 720x480 16:9 just like before and audio to AAC.

Use MPEGStreamClip, save as to move your video into a more appropriate .mp4 format.

You should be done.

I have no idea how you are introducing interlacing, as I never encountered it at all.
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Re: Final Cut Express: Horrible export quality

Postby Anicsi » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:13 am

Thank you very much, I just installed the component and exported the clip again with the new settings.
The quality looks really fine, only that I encountered a little colouring problem.
left is the x264 compared to HUFFYUV to the right.


Image


However, as it isn't too visible I can keep that simply in mind when editing and take some slight changes.
*sigh* We just don't seem to come to an end, I am sorry. I can save it with MPEGStreamclip just as you suggested, but this flagging-thing doesn't seem to work. Now again I get the final resolution of 720x480 instead of the above mentioned. :|

Well... interlacing happens either if there are very fast movements presented in the clips (not always), if I use text in FCE (always!) or if I change the speed of a clip. It doesn't matter if it is slower or faster, it just produces interlacing.
But as I said, I don't have this prolem with Apple Intermediate Codec so I will probably work with that in the future.
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Re: Final Cut Express: Horrible export quality

Postby Anicsi » Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:46 am

Oh well, something just occured to me. I can set up the final size of the video manually, I mean the aspect ratio. This setting won't interfere with the quality, right? So MPEGStreamclip should keep the size, shouldn't it? Just in case it has something to do with my MPEGStreamclip that it won't keep the original size...
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Re: Final Cut Express: Horrible export quality

Postby Athena » Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:51 am

Anicsi wrote:Thank you very much, I just installed the component and exported the clip again with the new settings.
The quality looks really fine, only that I encountered a little colouring problem.
left is the x264 compared to HUFFYUV to the right.


That's colorspace differences. I believe you can change that in options, and keep the YUV colorspace, but I didn't notice enough of a difference in my tests to personally care.

*sigh* We just don't seem to come to an end, I am sorry. I can save it with MPEGStreamclip just as you suggested, but this flagging-thing doesn't seem to work. Now again I get the final resolution of 720x480 instead of the above mentioned.


...what? *headdesk* If you play the resulting file out of MPEGStreamclip in QuickTime Player it doesn't have flagging? Keep in mind, MPEGStreamclip itself ignores flagging in its view window. This is not to be confused with how the file will be presented in actual players.

I am pretty sure I didn't have to tell it to reset the flagging, and I am pretty sure it just kept it.

Well... interlacing happens either if there are very fast movements presented in the clips (not always), if I use text in FCE (always!) or if I change the speed of a clip. It doesn't matter if it is slower or faster, it just produces interlacing.
But as I said, I don't have this prolem with Apple Intermediate Codec so I will probably work with that in the future.


That definitely sounds like you have the defaults set up to interlace. I'm working my way through the English FCE tech manual, and as soon as I figure out how to turn it off, I will let you know. As I said, I didn't encounter it at all. I know FCE has the annoying tendency to open each time with the same project settings (no, darn it, FCE, different projects mean different settings!) because of Easy Setup, so it's possible you initially checked something by accident, and FCE has just stuck with it.

Oh well, something just occured to me. I can set up the final size of the video manually, I mean the aspect ratio. This setting won't interfere with the quality, right? So MPEGStreamclip should keep the size, shouldn't it? Just in case it has something to do with my MPEGStreamclip that it won't keep the original size...


You mean manually resize the actual video to 848x480? You can, as a last resort, but you really shouldn't need to.
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Re: Final Cut Express: Horrible export quality

Postby Anicsi » Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:58 am

Kionon wrote:That's colorspace differences. I believe you can change that in options, and keep the YUV colorspace, but I didn't notice enough of a difference in my tests to personally care.


Oh okay, maybe I can find that option. If I don't it is not too important.

Kionon wrote:...what? *headdesk* If you play the resulting file out of MPEGStreamclip in QuickTime Player it doesn't have flagging? Keep in mind, MPEGStreamclip itself ignores flagging in its view window. This is not to be confused with how the file will be presented in actual players.

I am pretty sure I didn't have to tell it to reset the flagging, and I am pretty sure it just kept it.


Yes, I am very aware that MPEGStreamclip ignores flagging. But... yes, neither Quicktime Player, nor Mplayer or DviX Player show it with the right proportions ^^" Honestly .-.

I also looked through the settings in MPEGstreamclip but I couldn't find anything...

Kionon wrote:That definitely sounds like you have the defaults set up to interlace. I'm working my way through the English FCE tech manual, and as soon as I figure out how to turn it off, I will let you know. As I said, I didn't encounter it at all. I know FCE has the annoying tendency to open each time with the same project settings (no, darn it, FCE, different projects mean different settings!) because of Easy Setup, so it's possible you initially checked something by accident, and FCE has just stuck with it.


Yeah, right... Well maybe I am going to reset FCE once I have finished all my current projects. Don't know if this is going to help but it is worth a try...
Thank you very much ^^
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Re: Final Cut Express: Horrible export quality

Postby Athena » Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:10 am

Anicsi wrote:Yes, I am very aware that MPEGStreamclip ignores flagging. But... yes, neither Quicktime Player, nor Mplayer or DviX Player show it with the right proportions ^^" Honestly .-.

I also looked through the settings in MPEGstreamclip but I couldn't find anything...


I wish I had your macbook in front of me, because that's just craziness that shouldn't be happening.
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Re: Final Cut Express: Horrible export quality

Postby Anicsi » Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:23 am

Kionon wrote:
Anicsi wrote:Yes, I am very aware that MPEGStreamclip ignores flagging. But... yes, neither Quicktime Player, nor Mplayer or DviX Player show it with the right proportions ^^" Honestly .-.

I also looked through the settings in MPEGstreamclip but I couldn't find anything...


I wish I had your macbook in front of me, because that's just craziness that shouldn't be happening.


Aww .-." This seems to be really, really weird ^^" Well, thanks so much for your hep so far, I am just going to type in the final size manually. Might not be the best method, but as my MacBook just does what it wants it could be the only solution for now...
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Re: Final Cut Express: Horrible export quality

Postby Athena » Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:40 am

There is honestly no reason I can find that would dismiss the flagging when moving from containers that both have flagging enabled.

I honestly just don't know what's happening, so I would have to physically follow the process on your macbook and see why.
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Re: Final Cut Express: Horrible export quality

Postby gotenks794 » Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:04 am

Anicsi wrote:
4. Well, once the video is converted I get actually 5 files, each at about 4 GB. I have to type in the .avi ending manually. Is there any way to get one file instead of 5? Or would you say it is better this way as they aren't t hat big compared to a whole video?



Not to necropost, but I felt this needed to be said for the record; you can turn the splitting off by clicking Avidemux > Preferences > Output and clicking on the box for Create Open DML Files. Although when I tried this the file behaved strangely. It only played (in final cut) up until where the 4 GBs would've been but the file was much larger than 4GBs. In VLC, however, once it reached where it stopped in final cut, it kept going almost as if it was streaming. It was indeed odd.

On a side note, thank you, Kionon, as this thread also helped me (a fellow FCE4 user) out greatly.
Kionon for most helpful 2010! :up:
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Re: Final Cut Express: Horrible export quality

Postby Anicsi » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:29 am

Okay..... I've come once again across a problem with FCE xD I am beginning to believe that the program just hates me.
The case is:
I need to encode a video with fps 23,976. So, I just took the settings Kionon mentioned above (all 24 frames), but I get 29,xxx fps.

So, I tried to type in 23,976, it doesn't work but sets to 23 frames per second. Fine, I think and encode it ---> 29,xxx fps.
Third attempt, setting the framerate to automatic ---> 29,xxx fps.
This drives me crazy, I have NO idea what to do, no matter what I type in the outcome is always the same x.x

Anyone an idea?
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Re: Final Cut Express: Horrible export quality

Postby gotenks794 » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:31 pm

I was noticing the same thing actually... So what I did was check the box marked 'deinterlace' in the size options upon export. I believe it worked for me....as far as I can tell.
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Re: Final Cut Express: Horrible export quality

Postby Athena » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:34 am

Say wut?

If your source is 23.976 it should stay 23.976, and deinterlacing shouldn't have a thing to do with that, unless the source is also telecined, but then we'd be dealing with NTSC formatting, and isn't Europe PAL?
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Re: Final Cut Express: Horrible export quality

Postby mirkosp » Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:48 am

Kionon wrote:Say wut?

If your source is 23.976 it should stay 23.976, and deinterlacing shouldn't have a thing to do with that, unless the source is also telecined, but then we'd be dealing with NTSC formatting, and isn't Europe PAL?


Europe is mainly PAL, but some countries (France and Russia, not sure about others inside Europe) use SECAM. Both of these are 576p25 or 576i50. In any case, telecined content is possible for both, specifically 2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3 pulldown.

Either way, I was thinking that the solution might be stupid yet right:
Anicsi wrote:[...] I tried to type in 23,976, it doesn't work but sets to 23 frames per second.[...]

When 23,976 doesn't work, try 23.976. Sometimes, it's really just that. Considering how you just get 23, the comma might get ignored and you might need the dot.
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Re: Final Cut Express: Horrible export quality

Postby Anicsi » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:00 am

mirkosp wrote:Either way, I was thinking that the solution might be stupid yet right:
Anicsi wrote:[...] I tried to type in 23,976, it doesn't work but sets to 23 frames per second.[...]

When 23,976 doesn't work, try 23.976. Sometimes, it's really just that. Considering how you just get 23, the comma might get ignored and you might need the dot.


I tried that, too xD It didn't work. Whatever, I tried another video and there I could handle it manually. However, you are right, Kionon, the footage itself is 23,976 but the project settings are set to 29,97. So I wondered how I could change that.
I use the Apple Intermediate 720.

That's why when I leave the settings to "Frame Rate" -->Current
it stays 29,97 regardless of the original fps.
Image

Oh yeah, btw. my MPEG-Streamclip still keeps bitching around and won't give me videos where flagging is still working xD Only when using 720x480 however, 1280x720 seems to work fine. *headdesk*


Oh another question. I am using now the x264 encoder just as you suggested, Kionon. If I used H264 (normal setting) and set the kbps to 2500, just as you suggested, would the quality be a lot worse? Could I move it to an mp4 container, too? Just curious because of the colorspace differences (i noticed while watching the preview today.)
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Re: Final Cut Express: Horrible export quality

Postby gotenks794 » Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:17 pm

I am noticing the same problems as Anicsi. FCE is changing my frame rate, introducing interlacing etc. And Mpegstreamclip and Avidemux are both ignoring the 16:9 flagging. I have to manually enter the frame size to 848*480. I also noticed a problem when trying to export from FCE uncompressed. The resulting file seemed...corrupted. Both times.
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