WIP-Advice needed to continue:Loveless+Fair to Midland

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WIP-Advice needed to continue:Loveless+Fair to Midland

Postby Lepidopteran_Productions » Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:13 pm

There weren't any AMV's for Tall Tales Taste Like Sour Grapes XP

So i really wanted to make one. It's good practice at least. (yes- i'm still learning of course)

Aaand i have only WMM so i'm sorry ^^; (for any who choose to help me with this, and preview what i have so far)

Right now, i'm stuck between parts, as usually happens to me: I know -what- i want to do for some parts, but i can't get farther to get over -to- those parts, until i can create the parts in between. So it's frustrating ^^;

I would appreciate anyone familiar with Loveless, to help me with the parts:

To much hog wash not enough hear say
always made the front page
He could use a fine tooth comb
to get a word from the wise
Would be a welcome surprise
Keep an ear to the ground so to drown out the sound
cause the dead air is what made me whole

and later i encounter a similar problem for:

These walls don’t talk
Even when somebody knocks
These walls don’t stand
For anyone else but themselves
These walls wont fall
Even when gravity's failing us all

I have the chorus figured out as i want it, and some of the instrumental interludes (i just have to get my WMM to stop hating me so much with my transitions... or force it to deal with them as i usually must do XP)

Can't afford anouther program just yet, so i figured i'd work on bettering myself in WMM before getting something -real- to work with that won't make my life a living hell just to edit some stuff together ^.^;

anyways - here's some of what i have so far, and if you'd also be so kind as to leave your interpretations of what i'm trying to get across in the AMV so far, i would appreciate it. I'm trying to check out whether or not i'm doing a decent job keeping the lyrics and anime matching a story so to speak.

I'm working on it ^.^ Please - criticize me but also please be gentle ^.^ I don't have too much experience and the beginning is probably as good as i'm going to be able to manage it for this time frame. I've been tweaking it alot already but...

NOTE: left in some filler stuff, so you can hear the part that needs work on. I'm really lost, and am stuck right now, wanting to work on the next part, and not being able to do so because i kindof don't want to dig myself into a pit of having to re-time things at that point, and wanted to do the middle linearly.

any help would really be appreciated.

Here: (i put in in my photobucket account, because it is private. so only you guys can see my current attempts at working around WMM lag XP)

http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee16 ... w_0002.flv

I'll also try uploading it top somewhere else since i think the timing got: Worse at the beginning, and better at the end XP (must try and work on fixing that) Ah the joys of WMM ^.^

Also as i learned through my Angels AMV (still very much so in progress) just -one- well places comment, even out of no where, can bring that epiphany moment, something like that made me once change an entire segment that i had been previously satisfied with somewhat because it helped me to me enlightened to anouther possibility that i couldn't make out because i was too focused on the other aspects of the vid, so please feel free to leave even passing comments, even if you know nothing of the song, or series ^.^ As long as it is constructive, i'll take it at value, and hope it can allow me to improve even a small bit ^.^

Hoping i can manage a little advice quickly, before my current inspiration fails lol ^.~ I don't want to drag this one out months like my other one ^o^;
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Postby JaddziaDax » Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:20 pm

Are you familiar with manga spoilers?

if so I have some ideas, if not, then I don't want to spoil for you.
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Postby JaddziaDax » Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:33 pm

To much hog wash not enough hear say
always made the front page


This part could have to do with the fact that
[spoiler]Seimei is actually not dead and you can show him and references to the kids looking up his "death" on the class computer[/spoiler]

He could use a fine tooth comb
to get a word from the wise


Septimal Moon?

Would be a welcome surprise
Keep an ear to the ground so to drown out the sound
cause the dead air is what made me whole


Once again could do with the same spoilers I posted before

These walls don’t talk
Even when somebody knocks
These walls don’t stand
For anyone else but themselves
These walls wont fall
Even when gravity's failing us all


The abuse that Soubi goes through when he was younger?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Other nitpicks: you have a whole buttload of lipflap in your video, you might want to cut around those scenes, or cover them by using still frames or just cut them shorter and add random pretties... (lipflap is when people are chattering, it gets kinda boring) you could also add random pretties to it (scenes of butterflies and whatnot) a lot of the scenes also seem to drag a bit.

I can't say I'm a fan of this music... the guy is kinda hard to understand, but word of advise: try to make the images move/sync with the music... you seem to be caught up on a lot of lyrical phrasing that you are missing the movement to the music

other than that the quality looks nice for an flv.
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Postby Lepidopteran_Productions » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:02 pm

^^ Oh yes - the whole spoiler thing is actually the focus of my Angels AMV. I jut have no time to play with manga scenes for it yet, though i'll be using them in that as i can manage.

The lip-flap i'm planning on trying to edit the best i can. I messed up one area that i tried cutting some lipflap, since i don't want it so static at points, and am not sure what i can do at those times.

I'm working on learning timing better- I also am trying not to tire my own clips out so badly because i plan to have a very fast paced part much later in the song.

The current 'devil' is Ritsuka's mother, and the fact that he doesn't want to accept help from Soubi, his counselor etc. on the situation that he's in.

My main hold up is intent: I want to make a music video focusing on the themes specifically that you're suggesting, but if i did, i'd want that to be the main focus rather than chopping it up. Though i might actually be able to split the themes into threes like i planned with the Angels AMV (i am trying to present 3 different relationships, one at the beginning, a 2nd at the middle, and the end will be the third one basically, though they all tie together because they are all about the effect that Seimei has had in general on certain people throughout. I will need to learn to work with manga clips though for this.

^^ I have the butterfly scenes set aside for a part, but i might be able to work them into one aspect now that you've given me something to think about.

I'm just not sure what i'm wanting to do with this - Misaki as the main focus or ah, Septimal moon and such as well as the spoilers mentioned, or try a combination of them. (i worry that a combination would be too mixed together though and don't know if i could personally pull it off right.) I contemplated just making two separate amv's, one with each theme, but i think i'd be too sick of the song by then to make something halfway decent ^^;

you've helped me alot to thinking on the Septimal Moon side of things, i wasn't thinking of that aspect on this particular project at all, since i was trying to find ways of focusing on Misaki (a difficult task as she sort of isn't in it as much as would make that easier for me o.o) Constructive critisism like you've given has been very appreciated ^.^

and btw- i didn't like the style of music so much at first either ^^; The only think i'd heard of the group was Dance of the Manatee, but then my mate wanted to find an amv to this song -ANYWHERE- and throughout google, er *coughs* boochsack, and including the org here itself, the group is an unknown ^^; There is 1, -ONE- amv as far as i can tell, and it is a nice tribute to the lion king ^^;

Then the song got hopelessly stuck in my head, so i just went and bought it so i could use the full version for amv's ^^; I also was thinking that something might be interesting to practice working with game clips (which is something i've never tried really yet, and was looking for something for practice as i'm still quite new to what i am doing) that it might be an interesting take on Aeris telling Cloud the story of the ancients, etc, or Cloud telling Tifa his past, etc. I'd have to think much more, but i figured, the song was in my head anyways ^^; The lyrics might work if i could iron out the problem areas, i need practice like woah, and it doesn't have any amv's really for it to begin with, so maybe i can contribute something ^.^

I actually have a bad tendency to want to take on the projects that no one else tackles >.> Like my wanting to make 2 Hisana from Bleach tributes, when there is a grand total of 2minutes and 30 seconds of clips of her in the entire series actually. So... i make my own life hard with AMV's ^^; I'd say counting that, my first practice throw together attempt, and my Glass to the Arson amv, i've only MADE 4 complete amv's in my life ^^; So i really love constructive criticism as to what i can do better.

Aside from already thinking about how to cut some of that distracting lipflap, and cutting all of the ending so far anyways (i just wanted to provide anyone who would watch it with the part of the song that i'll be trying to work on next) do you have any advise as to if i should try a 3 part song like Angels, or if i should try and separate the ideas, or what? Working with just Misaki is difficult, and i don't want to cut my own throat so to speak with my own capabilities being what they are, but i'm not sure what i can pull off.

I will definitely look at your suggestions as they are excellent for that type of theme though ^.~ (and actually i might be able to twist some things around to try and work on some of the Septimal moon stuff with Misaki if i can make that work the way i'm thinking) I need to sort through my own clips again. It's been a while since i last watched them all, and i just now remembered a clip i think i might want to use. (sometimes it's just as bad having too much source as too little, since you can't sift through it all sometimes, and over look things too easily)

Thank you for responding though again ^^ I might be able to work some more on this tonight now, and i'll add anything i manage to tweak for further nitpicking if someone on here wouldn't mind picking this apart more ^^ (I'm a perfectionist who can't be perfect ^^; But loves the criticism as much as i wish it weren't needed XP)
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Postby Lepidopteran_Productions » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:12 pm

Oh yes- the first part entirely just about was edited using an mp3. I just finally was able to get Audacity, and converted to a Wav for a much easier time editing ^^; I had to re-watch the entire thing, and guess to get anything done for it, so i'm quite happy with how that came out considering what i had to go through ^^; The wav should help with being able to actually edit as i go more, so i'll tweak all of that and then post again with the updated version to be picked apart as the first was ^^; (and after i figure out where i'm going with this thing. Must plan more ^^; )

Um- how do you edit your posts btw? I haven't used the forums on here before yesterday ^^;
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Postby JaddziaDax » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:36 pm

on some of the forums here you don't edit your posts... i think thats to keep people from saying rude things then taking it back later.
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Postby Lepidopteran_Productions » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:46 pm

That's actually a very good system. I'm trying to think how to modify this... partly i wanted to make this initially because my mate was kindof sad that there were no amv's for this series, and though i know i'm not that great, (not like most of the creators on here ^^) I figured the practice would be enlightening, and as mentioned the darn song got so stuck in my head ^o^;

Hate being at a standstill though ^^; When i let ideas just sit, they tend to sit, and -rot- because i lose my initial hope and momentum for working on them, and they just stagnate -_- (here's to hoping this doesn't happen to this one) I'd ask my mate for advice to keep going but i haven't told her i'm making this yet ^^; (wanted to surprise her a bit), her and her friend cathy who i know is also interested in this group.

I like the song enough to be willing to dedicate my time to it, but i'm just not sure now where to go. I'm way to indecisive for making these thing ^^;
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Postby Lepidopteran_Productions » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:48 pm

Oh yes- and i must add that i love your avatar ^^; It amused me from the moment i saw it in anouther thread, and i've just started to watch the series this week or so and must say that i love it ^^; It's just so.. so... well. Indescribable is what i'd call that series lol ^o^)

((Sorry for chatting when i'm supposed to be looking for help lol - bad habits ^^; Must break those))
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Postby JaddziaDax » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:56 pm

usually when i get to a place where i can't continue I take a break and distract myself with other things... then eventually come back to it later :3

Though editing with WMM makes things entirely frustrating because I don't edit linear... if you want you can put in a black jpg and edit the parts later in the timeline and just use the jpg to hold space till you get there... though you will end up having to fix it again later because wmm sucks like that O:

I'm also working on a Loveless AMV at the moment so its fairly fresh in my mind...

hehe thanks XD I made the icon out of an avi file XD Zetzubou Sensei <3
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Postby Lepidopteran_Productions » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:17 pm

^o^ It is priceless ^.^

I'm working on trying to -learn- how to time things better musically, rather than just lyrically (my goal for this one was if i couldn't manage to master technical prettyness and timing, i'd hope it could have some meaning to it so it won't be a total mess ^^; )

I like to wait but, the last time i did that i'm STILL waiting (and my mate who's been waiting just as long after my nice epiphany with the lyrics: Pulled through doorway, and there being a scene of that that i'd overlooked entirely, changing the whole middle thanks ENTIRELY to her and her roommate helping me with advice there...)

Ah stuff like that makes me love constructive criticism ^.^ Even if i can't do mush better than i have, or am completely satisfied with my hard work, even if it isn't spectacular, one well placed comment will still sometimes be enough to give me a fresh start on things. I used to have troubles in school because i'd hate to change stuff- or erase something i'd done, even if i thought of something better. -_- I'm working on getting better about that through AMV's lol.

I thought about editing in a black jpg (i keep one for just such occasions, or if i want to play around with fading like in my Hisana tribute XP) but ended up playing with random scenes which is why everything of the chorus is not really ... timed at all. It's sortof all practice with timing, fillers instead of just slapping in a black screen there ^^; My WMM was lagging like crazy since i've been using it alot, (and WMM takes little use, and abuse to get angsty imo) and have been running some other programs so i'll go back to my quest to rid myself of the lip flaps in a few more hours. (or i'll just re-start the comp or something or give it a rest)

Do you have any suggestions or tips for that stillness, of having to use plain pics? I want to keep the lengths of the parts, and the scenes themselves, without any of the speaking, but i don't want just.... still images all over the amv ^^; I also played with a few effects, but thought they just detracted more than they helped at those points, so i'm not sure what would be a nice -subtle- but still... something, type of effect that i could use.

I want to learn as i go ^^; Figured out some tricks and techniques myself, by experimenting, of course, for years, i've watched and weanted to at least try and emulate the best for inspiration on here (have loved the quality of the org, and wanted to push myself towards that all through high school, and only now have been able to really work on anything, as the last computers i'd used either weren't mine,a nd i had limited access time on them, or actually didn't even have WMM ^^; (the really old desktop i mean) It couldn't even handle playing the higher quality amv's let alone full episodes, clips, ripping stuff, or editing it.

But if i'm learning as i go (and i still have such a LONG way to go lol XP) i'd prefer to learn -right- so i'm so sorry if i bombard you with questions such as "what's this do" and how can i get better at timing things to the music and beats etc instead of just working on lyric matches....) And yes i have already (and re-read every year or so as i forget everything that was written) the guides to 'good' amv's on here, and timing, and all that wonderful stuff, i am trying to work on my own style though ^^; I'm just not sure i currently grasp good timing. 'course ... it can't help much that when i DO get timing the way i want it WMM screws it up as i save it making me have to approximate and -hope- that it comes out right in the end XP

I also have a (is it a bad habit?) of wanting to time things to the undertones in music, or the downbeats? I don't know any of the lingo that would help me to explain what i am meaning here ^^;

I've found a tendency with my amv's where i want to have a beat-then scene right after, so it's like Bam/flash, or so with the timing after on purpose, and i don't know why ^^; Or if that goes against the amv very much. As i said i really don't know much, so i'm full of questions if you don't mind my struggling to explain myself here ^o^

And i wish you the best of luck on your own Loveless vid, i can't wait until it's done and i can watch it ^.^ It's sure to be quality ^.^


I am so bad at getting points across that i'm trying to make though -_-
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Postby JaddziaDax » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:46 pm

Lepidopteran_Productions wrote:I like to wait but, the last time i did that i'm STILL waiting (and my mate who's been waiting just as long after my nice epiphany with the lyrics: Pulled through doorway, and there being a scene of that that i'd overlooked entirely, changing the whole middle thanks ENTIRELY to her and her roommate helping me with advice there...)

Ah stuff like that makes me love constructive criticism ^.^ Even if i can't do mush better than i have, or am completely satisfied with my hard work, even if it isn't spectacular, one well placed comment will still sometimes be enough to give me a fresh start on things. I used to have troubles in school because i'd hate to change stuff- or erase something i'd done, even if i thought of something better. -_- I'm working on getting better about that through AMV's lol.


hehe I can understand not wanting to wait, the first thing I'd suggest is probably get a better editing program, WMM is very limited and there are tricks and whatnot that you can do in less linear programs, and ones that allow for overlays and such.

Also the ability to jump around in my video instead of just starting with the beginning and going to the end has helped me on a mental level because sometimes I get ideas down the road that I want to work on now, but with linear editing you just "can't" do that.

crit became easier for me when I realized it is okay if I disagree with another person's opinion, or the fact that I was allowed to go, "ok, but I like it this way, but I like your idea here." Crit during the editing process is golden to me because I can pick and choose which advise I want to use. Crit after the final version is usually pointless to me, because recently a lot of the crit I've been getting I can't really apply it to other videos. Though I usually "welcome" it anyways. I do like hearing other people's thoughts even if I don't agree with them.

Also there is always the fact that you will never satisfy everyone. Someone will always find something that is "wrong" with your video, even if you or a million other people don't see it as wrong.

I thought about editing in a black jpg (i keep one for just such occasions, or if i want to play around with fading like in my Hisana tribute XP) but ended up playing with random scenes which is why everything of the chorus is not really ... timed at all. It's sortof all practice with timing, fillers instead of just slapping in a black screen there ^^; My WMM was lagging like crazy since i've been using it alot, (and WMM takes little use, and abuse to get angsty imo) and have been running some other programs so i'll go back to my quest to rid myself of the lip flaps in a few more hours. (or i'll just re-start the comp or something or give it a rest)

Do you have any suggestions or tips for that stillness, of having to use plain pics? I want to keep the lengths of the parts, and the scenes themselves, without any of the speaking, but i don't want just.... still images all over the amv ^^; I also played with a few effects, but thought they just detracted more than they helped at those points, so i'm not sure what would be a nice -subtle- but still... something, type of effect that i could use.


If you had another editing program I could direct you to some guides/tips and tricks... but WMM in general only has one video track so using still frames is the best I can offer you right now... aside from cutting those scenes shorter and replacing them with some random scene that has movement to the music.. the still images would at the least keep the same scene without the lipflap... you could always add panning (camera movement) to the still frames?

But if i'm learning as i go (and i still have such a LONG way to go lol XP) i'd prefer to learn -right- so i'm so sorry if i bombard you with questions such as "what's this do" and how can i get better at timing things to the music and beats etc instead of just working on lyric matches....)


Questions are how people learn. If you are asking questions, it shows that you actually want to learn, which is sometimes rare on this site.

A lot of the time when it comes to timing it just comes down to putting on the headphones and just listening very carefully to the music, or playing the song over and over till the whole thing is ingrained into your head. Then try to take the scenes that sync to your lyrics and see how you can use the motion in them to match up with the music.

If WMM had markers or a waveform (I don't remember does it have waveform for the audio?) you could use those to see the beats you want to emphasize. It's really been so long since I've used WMM I don't remember what all it has.

I also have a (is it a bad habit?) of wanting to time things to the undertones in music, or the downbeats? I don't know any of the lingo that would help me to explain what i am meaning here ^^;

I've found a tendency with my amv's where i want to have a beat-then scene right after, so it's like Bam/flash, or so with the timing after on purpose, and i don't know why ^^; Or if that goes against the amv very much. As i said i really don't know much, so i'm full of questions if you don't mind my struggling to explain myself here ^o^


That really depends on the person watching. I tend to do that myself on occasion, and then people tell me my sync is off, I guess I just hear a different flow than some other people do.. Most people believe that you should be syncing to the more obvious sounds that you hear... I'm fairly more liberal on that.

And i wish you the best of luck on your own Loveless vid, i can't wait until it's done and i can watch it ^.^ It's sure to be quality ^.^


Thanks, it will be better quality visually than my last one, cause I've learned a lot since then, I donno about my "editing" quality though XD

I am so bad at getting points across that i'm trying to make though -_-


naw I got what you were saying, you just type a lot.... Wall of text!
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Postby Lepidopteran_Productions » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:52 am

Yes. ^.^ I've learned that i either type a little or alot ^o^ One liners, to epics ^^; Ah well, that's just me i guess ^.^

You are very insightful, and helpful btw ^.^

First off... My main dream is one day to be able to properly get a better medium for working with visual stuff ^.^

That unfortunatly, right now is an impossibility, so i have descided to train myself to do the best i can with what i've got, and hope that the practice can help me to be better if, and when i ever AM able to use a real program ^^;

I am currently secretly saving up for a 2 year anniversary-type gift for my mate, that will set me back a good $100 at least, that i must earn without a steady job, and while NOT letting her know about it ^.~ So it will be interesting. Luckily i have a while, but that means no funds going into the piggy-bank for a spiffy new program probably anytime this year ^o^;

someday though ^.~


Also there is always the fact that you will never satisfy everyone. Someone will always find something that is "wrong" with your video, even if you or a million other people don't see it as wrong.


Oh i know this is true. ^.^ I'm just going to try and do the best i can, accept my own limitations, and try to work around them ^o^

When i make stuff like AMV's (this one being slightly atypical as i'm partly making it for my mate and her friend as opposed to JUST for me) i make them for myself, because -I- want to see what i've envisioned in my head, be able to be presented to other people, and if i don't create it it will never exist ^^;

Ironically though with the music, the part that i like the best about this song (indeed the part of the song that made me even like it in the first place (i agree with you about the vocals for the most part, though they're getting pretty ingrained in my head so far ^o^; ) Is the very intro that this amv doesn't have. ^^; I started with the mp3 i had since i had to wait a little longer to actually buy the mp3 (i hate working on stuff if i don't own the music :sweat: Even with manga if i read it online i still usually end up intending to buy in in the future ^^ Which is a good thing i guess) but i didn't realize since i was a little tired when i started it that the nice violin part was missing until i'd edited the beginning the way i actually wanted it ^o^

If i can figure out WHAT to put at the beginning i think i may add it in, otherwise i will definitely be using that version (with the pretty violin-esq intro) for the Final Fantasy amv if i ever end up making it. I thought of that one first, but was taking care of something randomly, and thought of Loveless while the song happened to be still stuck in my head thanks to that intro, and went "wait.... hmm..." Then wanted to work on it for that. ^^;

WMM has a waveform, but it's really hard to tell the shifts at the point i'll be wanting them for a fast paced part, so i'm just kindof just guessing and checking as i go ^^; And going insane. I'm thinking of using manga for this one, even though i was not going to, but i may be needing around 24 different scenes to switch back and forth and manga might be a consideration, as it would at least be good practice for modifying, or trying to make it seem like there's a slight bit of movement with the scenes.

Entirely unsure: my main problem still, is that though i can -see- basically what i want done inside my head, when it comes to trying to put it into a physical form, i just fail. -_-;

If i can modify some more things, and you wouldn't mind listening through the whole song, i might try something with the full version (with the instrumental beginnings... if i'm adding credits (something i rarely do actually do) maybe that would provide an alright opportunity? If i can blend them in somehow? I don't think that will look quite how i'm going for at the moment, but at least you can see what i mean by the violin part that i'm trying to figure out what to do with. Instrumental sections are hard ^^;;;

Also i tend to try and time stuff to like, a turn very slightly on the beat, or a nod of the head on beat etc, but i don't know how noticeable they are ^^; If WMM even manages to save them at the right rate that is so they're still timed the way they had been XP

Should have been sleeping hours ago, so i don't know how coherent this is, and sorry 'bout that ^^;

But i must say that you are amazing with advice ^^; (and constructive criticism = motivation in this case ^o^) So thank you ^.^; (well... motivation after waking up and having some coffee ~.^)

I took your advice... took a break. Drew a horse ^^; Uploaded it via camera phone, and went to edit it, and am still very wary of trying to use the manga scenes, though i know i have to break down and get to it sometime. That's partly what's holding up the Angels AMV too >.> I have to sit down, and figure out WHAT scenes, to modify, and how, to be able to use them in the vids, and well... i'll be needing alot -_- Definitely alot, so i'm trying to think up a story board or such ^^; I'm thinking of setting up a sort of time line of what i have so far (on paper) so i can try and organize things a bit better, from my head to the vid, though i don't know how organized that will be (translating things to writing is NOT one of my stronger points at all) i think that's the only way i may be able to get the scenes set up. Since i hate re-using scenes in an AMV if i don't have to XP (yes, this coming from the person who still wants to make a 4 minute long Hisana tribute with the 2 and a half minutes of footage of her XP And after making 2 amv's already of her around 40 seconds and 1 minute long or so each >.>;; )

Problem is, there are only so many scenes to use, especially if i'm possibly going to need 24 of them for the fast interlude. If I can pull it off without it looking too chaotic. If.
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