Best Lip Sync

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Postby Wheee_It's_Me! » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:36 pm

I don't really have any particular vids to promote but I thought I would give a small primer on gauging the quality and level of skill that goes into lip synching. There are two forms to consider...frame and character. Let's look at the frame levels first:
1. Static frame.
2. Single or Double axis mono-directional movement.
3. Single or Double axis multi-directional movement.
4. Virtual frame movement across all three axis in variable directional movement (ie the camera floating around a characters body).

Now let's look at the character types:
1. Static character.
2. Character moving across one dimension (ie walking along a road), static head.
3. Character moving across two dimensions (ie walking up a flight of stairs from a side view), static head.
4. Character head movement.

So the higher the number, the more complex. A 2x1 lip synch for example wouldn't be as technically impressive as a 2x4 lip synch. Also the numbers are equal in complexity so a 2x4 lip synch would be just as impressive as a 4x2 lip synch. You can also represent them as a whole number by following the multiplication through, so a 3x2 lip synch would be a 6 out of 16 on this scale.

There are other factors to consider too. These include:
1. Duration of the synch.
2. Complexity of the synch as measure by the number of syllables.
3. Complexity of the synch as measured by the number of real life lip forms.
4. Number of lip forms used (often a person will use just three - closed, half open, wide open).
5. Repetition of words (obviously a song that uses the same phrase over and over is gonna be a heck of a lot easier than one with continually changing lyrics.

So based on that criteria it shouldn't be too hard to skip all the posturing that's going on in here and simply examine the ACTUAL numbers of complexity. This is very much a NON subjective form.
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Postby Wheee_It's_Me! » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:50 pm

*watches the Leeroy Jenkins vid*

...I'm not seeing anything there that's really that special lip synch wise. Maybe the very last "at least I have chicken" part where his head is moving okay, but pretty much all the other parts are static frame, static head lip synch or 1x1 lip synch...really not at all impressive.

*watches Johnny Rzeznik's vid*

Same thing, pretty much ALL static character/static frame lip synch. There's more of it than there is in Leeroy's vid, but it's quality, not quantity and at least Leeroy has a tiny smidgen of 1x4 lip synch at the end.

*watches viper1255's vid*

...woah...okay that's impressive, that has more head motion lip synch than my Forever vid. So far this one's got my vote. I'll look at some of the others later when I get some time. That "chicken" video certainly doesn't hold a candle to Viper's though, not by a long shot.
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Postby Haunter103 » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:17 pm

Wheee_It's_Me!, I don't feel like commenting on most of what you said so I'll just say these two things.

First, you failed to mention the main aspect of lip-synching in your little summary there, that being how accurate the sync itself is. That's of course, only rounds out the lip-syncing from a technical standpoint.

And second, it no longer matters who gets your vote, since you're a day late for first round nominations and none of those 3 videos made the semi-finals. Unless of course you already voted and simply waited until now to make these posts, but you would never make such an oversight, now would you? :roll:
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Postby Wheee_It's_Me! » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:51 pm

Haunter103 wrote:Wheee_It's_Me!, I don't feel like commenting on most of what you said so I'll just say these two things.

First, you failed to mention the main aspect of lip-synching in your little summary there, that being how accurate the sync itself is. That's of course, only rounds out the lip-syncing from a technical standpoint.


...well, to me, if the synch isn't accurate...at least as far as the lips don't move and stop when the voices do, the video shouldn't even be in the running. Obviously there's some room for subjective analysis in that some people think less accurate matching looks better, which is why I don't consider it to be a relative point in analysis. At the very least though, as I said, the lips should start moving and stop moving in accordance with the voices, if you can't even get that far don't bother mentioning it.

And second, it no longer matters who gets your vote, since you're a day late for first round nominations and none of those 3 videos made the semi-finals. Unless of course you already voted and simply waited until now to make these posts, but you would never make such an oversight, now would you? :roll:


Oh I don't really care about voting in the "official" awards or anything, I'm just giving my own personal review of some of the participants. If that helps other people who are voting (and it doesn't even necessarily apply just to THIS year) then that's a good thing. By giving my personal review and perspective of such vids people can examine them and use them as a basis of comparison in their own judging endeavors...and again, even if this years voting is over, what I'm saying applies to future applicants. Further, people can also use what I've said as a means of striving for a particular level of synch in their own, upcoming vids (for next years voting). Again, it's all about providing a basis of comparison.
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Postby Kitsuner » Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:53 am

Wheee_It's_Me! wrote:*watches viper1255's vid*

...woah...okay that's impressive, that has more head motion lip synch than my Forever vid. So far this one's got my vote. I'll look at some of the others later when I get some time. That "chicken" video certainly doesn't hold a candle to Viper's though, not by a long shot.

You forgot to mention another (unfortunately) popular type of lipsync, i.e., lipsynching characters via rotoblasting. The work involved with rotoblasting aside, it is actually VERY easy to lip sync a roto'd character (or at least easier than one which is unroto'd). Each character is, essentially, a still image which can be manipulated in many ways, and motion settings can make the lipsync seem like a 4x4 (using your reference numbers) with much less effort.

:(
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Postby Wheee_It's_Me! » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:49 pm

Kitsuner wrote:
Wheee_It's_Me! wrote:*watches viper1255's vid*

...woah...okay that's impressive, that has more head motion lip synch than my Forever vid. So far this one's got my vote. I'll look at some of the others later when I get some time. That "chicken" video certainly doesn't hold a candle to Viper's though, not by a long shot.

You forgot to mention another (unfortunately) popular type of lipsync, i.e., lipsynching characters via rotoblasting. The work involved with rotoblasting aside, it is actually VERY easy to lip sync a roto'd character (or at least easier than one which is unroto'd). Each character is, essentially, a still image which can be manipulated in many ways, and motion settings can make the lipsync seem like a 4x4 (using your reference numbers) with much less effort.

:(


Yeah but it's pretty obvious when they do it that way though, at least if the characters head is turning, especially from front to side. Most of the time it'll look like their mouth is magically floating about their face. ^_^

*watches Lip-sync complex*

Hrmmm, I'd say that's the worst yet, it's like 1x1 through the entire video. Completely static frames with only lip movements...looks really odd...plus it gets old real fast and makes the whole thing almost unbearable to finish watching.
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Postby Kitsuner » Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:12 pm

Wheee_It's_Me! wrote:
Kitsuner wrote:
Wheee_It's_Me! wrote:*watches viper1255's vid*

...woah...okay that's impressive, that has more head motion lip synch than my Forever vid. So far this one's got my vote. I'll look at some of the others later when I get some time. That "chicken" video certainly doesn't hold a candle to Viper's though, not by a long shot.

You forgot to mention another (unfortunately) popular type of lipsync, i.e., lipsynching characters via rotoblasting. The work involved with rotoblasting aside, it is actually VERY easy to lip sync a roto'd character (or at least easier than one which is unroto'd). Each character is, essentially, a still image which can be manipulated in many ways, and motion settings can make the lipsync seem like a 4x4 (using your reference numbers) with much less effort.

:(


Yeah but it's pretty obvious when they do it that way though, at least if the characters head is turning, especially from front to side. Most of the time it'll look like their mouth is magically floating about their face. ^_^

Apparently not, since you seemed to think viper's videos didn't use this technique. :roll:
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Postby Wheee_It's_Me! » Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:25 am

Kitsuner wrote:Apparently not, since you seemed to think viper's videos didn't use this technique. :roll:


That's a pretty lofty accusation there...where's your proof? What SPECIFIC time codes are you referring to? I took a quick sample myself:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_images/_AMV.Org/Viper_Lip_Synch_1.png
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_images/_AMV.Org/Viper_Lip_Synch_2.png
Definitely not the same mouth form...not even a manipulated one (tried mirroring, rotating and resizing to produce a secondary replica).
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