Phantasmagoriat wrote:@ godix: There is a huge difference.
During 9/11 the world was in such an emotionally vulnerable state to see the facts clearly. People were also too respectful to ask questions that might cause controversy during such a sensitive time. The day I saw those towers come down, I had questions about whether that was actually possible, but I certainly kept my mouth shut, as could be expected. Everyone turned to the only place they thought they could trust, the government, which could also be expected. This is what makes the fabrication theory so much more likely than it sounds. Now if you say you have facts, I wouldn't mind hearing them, though I've looked through quite a bit already, and it seems like there is more evidence pointing towards the fabrication theory.
What you say was true for about a year or two. After that, things return to normal for America as we split between the Pro-Bush twits and Anti-Bush morons. Note that two of my earlier examples, abu ghraib and rendition flights, came out during this time period. So I still think the 9/11 conspiracy theories expect me to believe the same government that can't hide flying a guy to Egypt can somehow hide mass murdering thousands on US soil. Still smells like total bullshit to me.
Since you claim you actually want facts, I'll make a token effort here.
Mostly inside the Pentagon. Hell, just glance at the
snopes page on this, it goes into far more detail than I care to bother typing.
The official story is that evidence was vaporized, including the two 6-ton steel/titanium-alloy engines.
Really? That's the official story is it? Perhaps you should try reading
the official story someday...
However if it is based on false assumptions, the science is invalid.
It's not false assumptions or invalid science. It's fucking photographs of debris from the plane you seem to think doesn't exist.
look at the de-emphasis of Building 7, or evidence of Thermite residue
I've seen estimates that it would take approximately 18,000 lbs of thermite to produce the amount of melted metal seen on the WTC site. You honestly think someone was able to sneak in 18,000 lbs of anything into an office building that had lots of workers and so on? Really? Watching video of two planes hitting WTC (one of which was broadcast live worldwide) trips your bullshit sensor but thinking 18,000 lbs of thermite was snuck into the building and hidden doesn't sound at all strange to you?
As a side note, the melted metal is theorized to be aluminum for the two planes which were, largely, aluminum which has a lower melting point than many other metals.
9/11 is exactly like what happened in 1933, Berlin, when the Reichstag (parliament) building was burned down.
The day after the fire, Hitler's dictatorship began with the enactment of a decree "for the Protection of the People and the State," thus military enlistment and expenditure skyrocketed, and all rights were taken away.
Yes, an elected leader of America who's power was checked by Congress and the Supreme Court on multiple occasions until he passed on power peacefully to the next elected leader, who was from a different party than him, is exactly like a dictator who took control of a country, purged anyone who disagreed with him, and kept power until the day he died just as the world wide war he started was ending. Oh yeah, I can see the parallels there.
a government that still believes in the death penalty,
a government that still believes war is justifiable,
Neither of these have naything at all to do with 9/11. Not that it matters much, but sometimes a war is justifiable actually. I won't argue if Iraq or Afghan are justifiable wars, but some wars are. You indirectly mentioned one earlier, WWII was justifiable for many of the countries involved since they were, basically, fighting defensively after being attacked.
And if we can learn anything from history, we can at least say that regardless of fabrication theories,
9/11 has been used as a justification for war, control of oil, increased military expenditures, increased security measures, decreased civil liberties, increased reliance on the government, and an overall shift in power to the people in control.
[/quote]
Most of the oil contracts in Iraq post invasion went to non-American oil companies. If it was a war for oil, we would have made sure we actually got the oil...
Security, civil liberties, etc. are issues. But they aren't issues about 9/11. Reliance on the government and shift in power to 'people in control' has actually been occurring for decades now. At least since FDR if not since Lincoln.
By the way, something else mentioned in this thread earlier, controlled demolitions happen at the base of the building. Google for footage of controlled demolitions. All of them start with an explosion at the base of the building which causes the entire building to collapse at the same time as the base is destroyed. Now go look at the WTC footage of the collapsing towers. The collapse clearly started at the point the planes hit, not the base. The towers collapsing from the top down, where the bottom portion of the building was intact until the debris from above hit it. If this was a controlled demolition, it was one done entirely differently than any controlled demolition before or after it.