Canadian vote day

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Canadian vote day

Postby Sukunai » Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:44 pm

I am NOT here to discuss the politics.

But I voted.

And to all those in the usual 40ish % range that don't vote, STFU you have no opinion if you refuse to vote. Those of us who actually DID vote when we could, are the only ones deserving of an opinion after the results come in.

My choice was not an easy one.

I hate the leader of one party, the party itself regardless of the leader in another case, and in one case the one party has a leader that's an idiot. That left me two choices, and one of them most be an independent, because they show up on a ballot, but I've never actually heard of them (and I won't vote for a group that can't even afford to pay for signs to announce they exist).

So that left me with a party I don't actually hate (just not crazy about), and their leader is even recognized as an alright person. If you are Canadian you might even be able to identify the person.

I normally vote for the party and go with it. This time I voted for the leader as that person will be the one doing all the talking in Parliament anyway.

Tonight I get to find out how badly I lost. I am already aware my choice isn't actually going to win.
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Re: Canadian vote day

Postby Otohiko » Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:12 pm

Sukunai wrote:And to all those in the usual 40ish % range that don't vote, STFU you have no opinion if you refuse to vote.


No, you STFU.

Who did I have to choose from again?

Let me say why I didn't vote:

Conservatives are out by default always. I'll be dead before I vote for the Conservatives, although I might go easier on them if they don't so thoroughly try to suck off the Americans. It's with them in power that, ironically, I feel Canadian cultural sovereignty is most threatened.

I voted Liberal once just to counter the conservatives, but later came to the conclusion that they were only marginally better and I disagreed with them on at least 60% of issues. Never again.

The NDP I voted for a couple of times, especially provincially because our one-time MPP Peter Kormos was quite a good guy whom my family knew personally and who definitely worked hard and helped a lot at the community level. Not that I agreed with the platform. NDP is closest to me politically, but I find a lot of their policies to be half-measures from either a socialist or a liberal-democratic point of view. They support failed/failing immigration and welfare policies. On the other hand I welcome their efforts on healthcare and education. And I support proportional representation, which is mostly why I voted for them nationally before.

However the main reason I outright refuse to vote for either of the three above parties this time is their position on the Georgia conflict. Not because they condemned Russia - Russia should have been condemned by all means. Russia was wrong. But because all three of these parties openly supported war criminal Mikhail Saakashvili and now my tax dollars are going to give aid right into the hands of a nationalist government that had initiated a massed attack on a civilian area using BM-21 Grad rocket artillery. Sorry, no. I outright refuse to vote in anyone who takes a favourable position on something like this. They can and should go suck America's dick. Oh wait, that's why they did this.

Now for the smaller ones...

Bloc Quebecois. Do I even need to comment?

Green. I've voted for them before. I won't again. I find them politically and economically naive, and while left enough and concerned for the environment enough - too mired in trivial social issues to ever effect anything of socioeconomic relevance. They haven't even tried. I like the fact that they raise a ruckus about some issues like proportional representation, but beyond that it's all triviality and naivete.

Communists/Marxist-Leninists. After the last election when I was really pissed at Canadian politics, I seriously thought of joining the CCP. Then I read more of their stuff and listened to their leaders. Ridiculous. As above, they're mired in very poorly-led activism and minor social agendas. There's hardly a trace of interest in the real, massive socioeconomic issues which the socialist agenda has to be founded on and which I am most concerned about over everything else in the country. Meanwhile, what we have here is a bunch of ineffectual, inarticulate, pseudo-intellectual wankers. No thanks.

Net result? If I had to choose between THAT or else STFU, I say take your "choice" and shove it. I'm not voting for garbage. And I'm better-suited to survive even the most unfavourable regime from my perspective than anything this election could seriously threaten. So to hell with that.
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Postby Sukunai » Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:36 pm

So what you are saying, is you would rather defacto vote in a minority Conservative or minority government by default then?

Your even dumber than you sound as a result.

STFU your opinion has less established worth than my non political opinions have to this board evidently.

You do realize that you are defacto being labeled a Conservative voter. You did nothing to make anything else happen.
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Postby The Origonal Head Hunter » Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:55 pm

Sukunai wrote:Tonight I get to find out how badly I lost. I am already aware my choice isn't actually going to win.


Sukunai wrote:You did nothing to make anything else happen.


Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.

What is worse, voting for a sure-loser or not voting at all?
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Postby Otohiko » Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:34 pm

The Origonal Head Hunter wrote:
Sukunai wrote:Tonight I get to find out how badly I lost. I am already aware my choice isn't actually going to win.


Sukunai wrote:You did nothing to make anything else happen.


Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.

What is worse, voting for a sure-loser or not voting at all?


:roll:

Also, again, you hadn't addressed my primary question (which, I apologize - I may have hidden under a layer of bitterness that on the topic I have trouble hiding)... Who do I vote for? What is "anything else"? You think I'd be jumping for joy if NDP or even CCP got voted in? Oh joy indeed...

This "something else" is merely a choice I don't want a part of. I've been through this before. This is called Perestroika mentality.

I don't think the Conservatives are evil, or conversely, good, so it doesn't make any sense for me to vote for a 'lesser evil' here. All the political parties have either disappointed or outright upset my political values.

I know what it's like to vote in pointless elections, trust me. My parents in Russia were Yabloko (the last remaining liberal-democratic party) voters. They were hopeless, of course, and are now in fact completely unrepresented in the Russian parliament, but at least they remained true to their platform to the end and had retained values myself or my family would've been inclined to respect. If I were a Russian citizen, I'd still be voting for them, and there's bigger problems in Russia's 'democratic' system than Canadians could ever dream of. On the other hand, I ominously see many antecedents in Canadian socioeconomics and politics that could lead to a similar situation. But that doesn't matter to me - if there is noone I can respect to honour my values here, they aren't getting my mandate voluntarily. I realize they are getting it implictly - well, tough. I refuse to be complicit and put my signature on something I don't believe in. I have other ways to make a difference in Canadian public life that are a lot more meaningful and ethical from my point of view than voting. Instead of affiliating myself with a party platform, I can selectively support the promotion of things I believe in on a cause-by-cause basis. More importantly, I can be an honest citizen.

As for the state, it's ethically bankrupt to me. Fortunately, these things are far from permanent.
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Postby Nessephanie » Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:30 pm

It's my day off work, I'm too lazy to actually leave my house to vote :x
(It's actually more that I don't follow politics so my vote would be a shot in the dark, which I don't agree with. I'd rather not vote, then vote blindly.)
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Postby purplepolecat » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:25 pm

I just got back from voting.

The way I see it, whether you vote or not you WILL be stuck with one party or the other, so you may as well try to influence the process. People act as if by refusing to vote, they are making a strong statement about the choices the system is giving them; however the message they are sending to Ottawa is "don't listen to my opinion, I don't count". Don't marginalise yourself just because you hold marginal opinions.

On the other hand, I'm glad we don't have compulsory voting, as nessephanie said, it would just lead to people voting blindly.

I voted Liberal, although I think Dion is a wet noodle with no leadership qualities. Historically, on every major issue that the libs and torys have disagreed on, I've sided with the libs. I am scared of what could happen in a tory majority.
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Postby Ghet » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:55 pm

theres a world outside the united states?!

CANADA HAS A GOVERNMENT?!?!
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Postby CodeZTM » Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:01 pm

Ghet wrote:theres a world outside the united states?!

CANADA HAS A GOVERNMENT?!?!


WAT! IMPOSSIBLE! O_O CHECK YOUR SOURCES DAMN IT!
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Postby dokidoki » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:09 pm

Otohiko wrote:Let me say why I didn't vote:

Just write in Cthulhu. Or Vegeta.

nessephanie wrote:(It's actually more that I don't follow politics so my vote would be a shot in the dark, which I don't agree with. I'd rather not vote, then vote blindly.)

All you need to know... (for those who didn't see it on my LJ)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hfGy_b87gI
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Postby Otohiko » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:34 pm

dokidoki wrote:All you need to know... (for those who didn't see it on my LJ)
http://www.boochsack.com/watch?v=4hfGy_b87gI


:rofl:
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Postby EvaFan » Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:58 pm

dokidoki wrote:All you need to know... (for those who didn't see it on my LJ)
http://www.boochsack.com/watch?v=4hfGy_b87gI


I lol'd too. Kids are better at lying on TV than these politicians. At least they make us laugh.
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Postby Sukunai » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:25 am

I helped make sure that Harper didn't get a majority which means he doesn't have the deluded notion I approve of some of his parties plans.

For instance, Harper would almost certainly brand every one of you amv creators pirates. He'd fine your ass.

Not that he's worse than Bush, who would not settle for anything less than seizing your computer and every device that will play music in your home.

Not voting means you would rather these two got their way.

Which means your having donated to this place is pointless, as you support people that would want it shut down.

I knew some people wouldn't get too far in the election. But I also know there are too many fucking idiots like the "I didn't vote" crowd ensuring I was out there voting for a guy without their help. I have more respect for the people that voted Conservative, than the people that think not voting is an answer.
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Postby Otohiko » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:02 am

Oh, so now I voted for Bush, too. And you have more respect for people voting concervative?

You did not address my question and you continue indirectly insulting me.

I'll continue spelling it out: I'm not afraid of Harper enough to compromise on my ethical principles. In fact I'm not afraid of Harper at all. Voting out of fear for a bunch of canned choices - okay, well, you could take purplepolecat's stance and say that's "marginalizing" yourself. But there's the other side of the coin and that's compromising. I'm used to being marginalized. I'm not used to compromising on my principles. I gave this voting thing a chance before. I voted for pretty much every party except Conservative and Bloc Quebecois to give them a chance before. I've studied their platforms. I know the "choices". I know their positions on issues that have caused me to pull out in this election. I'm not going to again be tricked into the illusion that I have a choice there.

As I said, I have other means to support causes I believe in. I refuse to align myself with political platforms to do so. I refuse to be scared into voting by issues like copyright law. There are bigger issues than that. If that's your only reason for voting - well, you know what, I won't make any accusations. Whatever.

I respect your decision to vote. Now please stop insulting me by talking through me and my questions. And stop insulting over 40% of the population as well. Who do I vote for if none of the parties fit either my political stance or perhaps more importantly, my ethical sensibilities? Why do I want to give away my signature to people whom I cannot ethically support?
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Postby guy07 » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:49 am

Eh, I didn't vote. But if i did i would have voted conservative. You can bash them all you want, but the fact is that our economy isn't doing that bad compared to other countrys after the markets went down. A lot of countries are screaming bail out while canadian banks are looking to buy american banks up. We don't need wild magical plans to save our economy, it's NOT THAT BAD. Maybe next time i'll vote or green, but for now i think canada made the right choice.
But if i'm wrong, I guess we'll find out soon enough. :wink:
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