definition of a lost cause

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Re: definition of a lost cause

Postby jasper-isis » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:11 am

Sukunai wrote:Any time one makes a claim and is incapable of providing verifiable evidence, the person might as well not bother making the claim.

We should never assume that a lack of evidence means the evidence doesn't exist, or that the evidence we have is all definitive. We shouldn't assume that the data available to us contains all we need to answer our questions. In science, one can never possess the complete truth. One can only look for what, at a given time, cannot be proved wrong.
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Postby guy07 » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:14 am

POST! :amv:
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Postby Sukunai » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:14 am

Prodigi wrote:Definition of a lost cause: Sukunai.


I'm not lost, merely deciding where to be.

Now you on the other hand have been intentionally discarded, and on the curb in the mud in the rain at that.
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Re: definition of a lost cause

Postby Sukunai » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:27 am

jasper-isis wrote:
Sukunai wrote:Any time one makes a claim and is incapable of providing verifiable evidence, the person might as well not bother making the claim.

We should never assume that a lack of evidence means the evidence doesn't exist, or that the evidence we have is all definitive. We shouldn't assume that the data available to us contains all we need to answer our questions. In science, one can never possess the complete truth. One can only look for what, at a given time, cannot be proved wrong.


Why?

Someone says they believe in god, so what. They claim all manner of evidence, but in the end none of it is worth anything accept to the believer.
I can hold up a rock and say the rock proves everything the average atypical religious person believes in, is based on flawed thinking. But you don't really know if I even have a rock in my hand right now, or if it has been properly carbon dated either.

I might as well talk about the dragon in my garage. But wait, you can't even be sure I have the garage.
Evidence isn't evidence of anything until it's offered. And right now you are not going to be getting any proof I have a garage.

You're falling into the same trap that the religious fall into. You expect to have an answer provided for you BEFORE it's proven to answer anything. And proof doesn't come in the form of "faith". Proof is like the sensation of drowning because you can't breath under water. Proof is like holding your hand in a flame and knowing that fire burns.

That is why you can claim anything you wish to claim. But, in the absence of it being verified, you have proven nothing to another.
Granted, it is possible to know a truth, and have no way to prove you have found that truth, and it still being the truth.

When I depart this life, you won't be getting any closer to the truth of what happens next, from me :)
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Postby Otohiko » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:32 am

Being stuck in a positivist mindset in a postmodern world is passe. :roll:
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Postby CodeZTM » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:58 am

You're falling into the same trap that the religious fall into. You expect to have an answer provided for you BEFORE it's proven to answer anything. And proof doesn't come in the form of "faith". Proof is like the sensation of drowning because you can't breath under water. Proof is like holding your hand in a flame and knowing that fire burns.


And you wonder why relgious people get pissed off so easily. :roll:
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Postby Otohiko » Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:19 pm

Also, I think Jasper was talking more about theory than about faith. There's a distinction. And there's also a startling amount of useful, scientific stuff based on theory rather than fact. There is also a distinction there.
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Postby aesling » Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:24 pm

Sukunai, I like how you keep insisting that our opinions are worthless and that you don't care about them, but you create an entire thread to continue an argument (or several arguments, depending on how you look at it). If you don't care, why are you still posting about it? What the hell? Seriously.







Oh, and never try to use similies again; that was just terrible.
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Postby jasper-isis » Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:30 pm

I was merely saying that we haven't yet learned all that there is to learn. Therefore there's no point in getting cocky and thinking that anyone who presents an argument contrary to the facts isn't worth listening to.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... A9649C8B63


Minds open > minds closed.
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Postby BasharOfTheAges » Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:46 pm

There are "unprovables" too that, by the very way they are phrased, can be neither proven nor disproved and never will. Those are entirely separate from logic and reason but are often used to try to counter logic and reason in argument.
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Postby Prodigi » Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:27 am

You want to argue about proof?

WHERE ARE THE UNICORN FOSSILS?!
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Postby JaddziaDax » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:42 pm

unicorns are just goats with one horn :P
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