Religion

This forum is for members to discuss topics that do not relate to anime music videos.

Postby NS » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:20 am

You are correct, and the time spent writing that rant could have been spent ranting about thesis things >_>
User avatar
NS
I like pants
 
Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Status: Pants

Postby Orwell » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:30 am

The Surgeon General wrote:Or like how in one of the books, Isaiah or maybe Psalms, the writer is praising God, who he says is above the "globe" or "sphere" of the earth. Thinking about when the Bible was written, that was WAY before it was proven to be round.


The arguement I believe was more whether the earth revolved around the sun, or the sun revolved around the earth, and much less, is the earth flat? Ptolemy in 200 bc surmised it to be round, wasn't there a greek guy in 500bc as well? Though it was not conclusively proven until the voyage around the globe.

I've, at least recently, viewed religion as a personal admission of weakness of character, which has been otherwise filled by a belief in something created only in the minds of people. The masses need an opiate, no matter what it is. Whether it's god, the man standing up to take control to 'liberate' you from those nasty freedoms that brought terrorism to your home, or just what somebody grew or cooked up, many, many people need SOMETHING to rely on, and few find that in themselves.

I was gonna rant about equality, but I have a feeling there would be little agreement anywhere when one makes the point of saying, equality before the law is good and all, but those who are privileged from birth with talents superior to their peers should be free to exploit that and succeed, instead of having to carry the masses.
Latest
[Kristyrat]: Vote for Orwell
[Kristyrat]: because train conducters are dicks.
Otohiko: whereas Germans are like "god we are all so horrible, we're going to die a pointless death now."
User avatar
Orwell
godx, Son of godix
 
Joined: 06 Jan 2004
Location: Frying Pan. Destination: Fire.

Postby Otohiko » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:36 am

Orwell wrote:I was gonna rant about equality, but I have a feeling there would be little agreement anywhere when one makes the point of saying, equality before the law is good and all, but those who are privileged from birth with talents superior to their peers should be free to exploit that and succeed, instead of having to carry the masses.


I think you're confusing equality and sameness - and the idea of 'superior talents' is a little shaky. Equality, I think, implies equality in rights, and not neccesarily just legal ones - not sameness in abilities or their means of development. Everyone should have a right to develop their abilities and inclinations appropriately, to the best of their personal ability, no question. That's why we have people educating people, not machines (yet).

Also of course the question - succeed at what?
Otohiko
 
Joined: 05 May 2003

Postby 8bit_samurai » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:01 am

I don't think you could legion twice or multiple times, let alone verb the word legion :/

Ever since I could remember I went to Church since my whole family went. We went to a Friends Church (which I think it's Quaker) for a long while. After 7 years or so (or at least when I was that age) we starting looking for a new Church, though I don't know why. We went to some pretty weird Churches, though they may have seemed weird since I was about 7 at the time and was used to the Friends Church. At one of them the Church sang the Barney "I love you" song and we never went back since. After awhile we settled at a Baptist Church, in which we continued going since then. Well, I kinda stopped going to Church when I started college, even though my parents encourage me to go to Church regularly. I have a Bible and read most of it (especially Revelations) and been meaning to read more of it, but... Yeah.

When I was growing up in my early teens, I kinda went through a phase where I believed that "God" wasn't the only Almighty Being and such, and that us "humans" were just like a "science project" here on Earth and that there may be more Almighty Beings who create other "science projects" on other galaxies far far away or something. But it was a short lived phase, and at the same time I was playing Starcraft alot.

There's only a Lutheran Church here lead by a family from down States (and who's kids lived here all or most of their lives and are more "native" than me :/ ) and I do go on special occasions and such, since everybody practically does.

I have a few friends from different Churches. I had some Mormon friends, one not being very Mormon-ish and other two who were twins that are really into it. Though they didn't believe in the multiple wives part. I had a couple friends who were in the Russian Orthodox Church which seemed pretty interesting when they told me about it. One of my other friends was the son of the Priest (or preacher, or whatever) of the Korean Church in a small town (with alot of Korean immigrants who owned take out restaurants and one of them had the best Hot N Spicy Chicken evar).

I dunno what I'd be, now. Some kinda Christian or something. Baptists kinda bore me since they just sang the same songs on how I lift Jesus on High, helped out other people who didn't really need it in the first place (except for the donating to charities and taking some kinda trips to Africa to preach and give food or something). Though I'm pretty sure they do other stuff, but I wouldn't know since I didn't really pay attention. I do miss going to the Friends Church because of the Hymns and the way the Church looked inside kinda like those old fashioned Churches. I believe there is a God and he has his reasons for stuff, though we don't understand since we're only human. Other than that I don't really know what to believe in, but then again I'm not really searching for answers at the moment.
Under Construction
User avatar
8bit_samurai
Hmm...
 
Joined: 17 May 2006
Location: Alaska

Postby godix » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:35 am

I do think there is a spiritual aspect to humans. Cold physics and biology along with pavlovian explanations of human behavior just don't explain how people work. Our brain may operate via electrical impulses through a lump of grey matter but that just explains how we think, it doesn't explain why or what we think about. The various theories of psychology may help explain some aspects but they don't, and I doubt they ever will, come close to explaining even a small fraction of it all. Personality seems to be beyond science.

However that does not mean I believe in religion. Looking at the role of religions historically they have served as little more than to explain the unexplained (and an opiate to the masses, but that part only explains why some leaders push religion not why people buy into it). Then science comes along and comes up with a much better explanation so religion gives up on that point and goes away to explain some other unexplained aspect of our world. Back in our earliest recorded history religion was used to explain, and desperately hope for, good crops/hunting/fertility and other strictly local things. Over time we learned how to hunt well, farm, etc and religion retreated towards bigger unknowns like what is thunder and lightning. And they were serious, this wasn't any of the vague 'god is behind it all but he does it through natural laws' type bullshit. Thunder was directly made by Thor. Science figured out some about what natural phenomena really are and these days you just don't see much serious belief in thunder gods. So religion moved on to explaining where people came from. Then came the idea of evolution and it's taken a few hundred years but religion is slowly retreating from that position. It retreated into the clockwork deity who winds everything up, except over the last few decades we've come up with some serious and credible ideas on how the universe started. I don't know where religion will go next but I'm quite sure that it will be, basically, nothing more than a token explanation of the world around us to serve until science figures out the real answer.

So to put it simply, I believe in a spiritual essence of humanity but I don't believe in a deity. Religion exists simply because humans fear the unknown and there aren't all that many people who can look at the world and say 'I don't know how it all works and I don't need to make up some bullshit to fool myself into thinking I do know'.

A note on the bible: It is a pack of total shit. Two totally different creation stories in the first couple pages, believing Batman turned into Little Orphan Annie with no explanation is actually easier than believing the new testament and old testament deity are the same character, at least one story where god loses to another deity (yes, there is more than one deity in the bible, God isn't alone), a chapter that starts off saying they'll list the genealogy of a family then totally misses a generation, several major passages that just make you think 'they had LSD back then?', long list of rules that would scare the fuck out of any sane person, repeated excessive cruelty, Jesus having four totally different last words, Jesus promising he'd return during the disciples lifetime then standing them up, Jesus claiming he is the planet Venus (or Satan, the passage can be read either way although Jesus probably meant he was the planet), etc. It isn't even good literature much less something to base your beliefs of how the universe works. If anyone seriously believes in the bible then do yourself a favor, actually read the stupid thing and think about what it is saying.
Image
User avatar
godix
a disturbed member
 
Joined: 03 Aug 2002

Postby requiett » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:56 am

Of course an asshole as big as me believes in God. What, did the fucking universe form itself? I say you need an even bigger asshole like God to make a universe as fucking wacky as this.
User avatar
requiett
 
Joined: 12 May 2003
Location: Alaska

Postby AquaSky » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:39 am

I'm a Christian. I'm also a scientist. Instead of being opposed to things like the theory of evolution, I believe it to be the means by which God created the different species. It's a viewpoint called Theistic evolution. Some people aren't able to reconcile science and faith, but I think those people are a bit too narrow-minded.

Also, it annoys me when atheists slam religion because they think everyone is out to convert them or to tell them what they can and can't do/say/watch/read. Most believers choose to live and let live. We don't get holier than thou or ride a moral high horse and campaign for censorship. It's a shame that those who take things too far give the rest of us a bad rep. One of the things that the intolerant followers forget is that Jesus loves everybody, regardless of gender/age/orientation/race/etc. When you read the scriptures, He was all about the acceptance. That was His example to us.
Image
Image
User avatar
AquaSky
Master of Science
 
Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Location: Palm Beach Gardens, FL.

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:03 am

DOKTOP KPbI/\OB wrote:Before you get religious, you need to get informed. Blind faith leads nowhere.
Now this is counter to the main point religion serves. Sure, being informed is all well and good if you're an intelligent person with empathy and compassion, but the real point of blind faith is dealing with the base, unenlightened masses. It's far too much work to condition a peasant farmer to be a good person with reason alone - so if you ingrain a fear of supernatural consequence in him, he behaves. Some people realize the stories are simply morality tales, some are incapable of doing so and brainwash their children into strict adherence to specific, often tangential, rituals and beliefs often perpetuated by leaders with strong political or personal opinions that they weasel into dogma - this is where branch denominations, sects and cults come from. The whole system then perpetuates by the idea that questioning anything is evil and that non-believers are to be shunned, converted, treated with hatred, disdain, or passive-aggressive false sympathy.
Another Anime Convention AMV Contest Coordinator 2008-2014 & Head of the AAC Fan-works Theater - follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/AACFanTheater
:sorcerer: :sorcerer: |RD: "Oh, Action!" (side-by-side) | |
User avatar
BasharOfTheAges
Just zis guy, you know?
 
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: Merrimack, NH
Status: Extreeeeeeeeeme

Postby inthesto » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:12 am

Anti-religion LOL
Sukunai, Real Canadian Hero wrote:Note to any Muslims present. Abuse a female in my presence, and you are being sent to a hospital emergency ward with life threatening injuries. And no human law will make me change my mind.
User avatar
inthesto
Beef Basket
 
Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Location: PARTIES
Status: PARTIES

Postby Ileia » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:19 am

Orwell wrote:
The Surgeon General wrote:Or like how in one of the books, Isaiah or maybe Psalms, the writer is praising God, who he says is above the "globe" or "sphere" of the earth. Thinking about when the Bible was written, that was WAY before it was proven to be round.


The arguement I believe was more whether the earth revolved around the sun, or the sun revolved around the earth, and much less, is the earth flat? Ptolemy in 200 bc surmised it to be round, wasn't there a greek guy in 500bc as well? Though it was not conclusively proven until the voyage around the globe.


Right, I'm just adding to the pile. If those Europeans had read their Bible it could've saved them a trip. :nono:
User avatar
Ileia
CornDog Whisperer
 
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Location: On teh Z-drive, CornDog
Status: ....to completion

Postby inthesto » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:33 am

If you're referring to Columbus, I think the debate then was whether or not it would be faster to "backdoor" it to China rather than navigate around Africa.

Dude lucked out that there was this thing called America where he estimated China to be.
Sukunai, Real Canadian Hero wrote:Note to any Muslims present. Abuse a female in my presence, and you are being sent to a hospital emergency ward with life threatening injuries. And no human law will make me change my mind.
User avatar
inthesto
Beef Basket
 
Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Location: PARTIES
Status: PARTIES

Postby ZephyrStar » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:42 am

I exist...so I'm spiritual, but not religious I guess.
Image
User avatar
ZephyrStar
Master of Science
 
Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Location: The Laboratory
Status: Master of Science

Postby Niotex » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:31 am

I can't and will not believe in anything based off literature. Literature is too fragile to devote my life to. The bible/Koran have been rewritten countless times by power hungry old men. We as the current generation can't even verify what the "real" testament stated. Because of this we can't even verify anything that we've been thought. Science can't solidly confirm anything ever being written either. With that we haven't seen any indication of lets say a miracle in the western world for "a while".

I'm not even going to speak my personal opinion on religious people in general. As I'm pretty sure allot of people would feel offended. =|
Image
User avatar
Niotex
The Phantom Canine
 
Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Location: Netherlands
Status: Simply Insane

Postby guy07 » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:32 am

Hm .... so most of you believe in something, even if you're not sure what.
As for what godix said, personalities are not limited to humans. Most species of animals tend to have personalities (and growing up on a farm, i can say honestly and with evidence that they do) if you pay close enough attention to them. So that's not limited to humans for sure. And as for who started the universe and all that jazz ... if you want to believe some divine being set things in motion ... what created that being? You could kick your self for the rest of your life trying to figure it out but you won't find the right answer. IMO, this happen because they happen. The right conditions eventually formed and the universe began. You're acting like the forming of the universe is something special, how do we even know this is the only universe? Hell, the universe is infinitely old. It could have started and died out millions of times already.
As for humans being so special, haven't any of you heard of the Drake Equation? It's impossible for us to be the only intelligent life forms in the universe.
Seems to me like most of you are putting us up on a pedestal ...
User avatar
guy07
 
Joined: 08 Sep 2003
Location: T.O.
Status: Back in beard.

Postby Unlimited Rice » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:52 am

My family's really religious(hell, my uncle's a priest) and I went to a catholic school up until finishing middle school. So yeah, I've grown up believing in God and it's hard to like, not believe in God anymore, but I still completely understand if someone doesn't believe in him.

As far as being devoted, I just do the regular stuff like going to mass on Sundays and praying at night before I sleep and stuff. But I really can't get into like youth groups and stuff. It's pretty ironic how we're supposed to be all about acceptance, yet most of these groups have cliques in them. It's pretty wack if you ask me.
User avatar
Unlimited Rice
 
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Location: FL.

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: xDreww and 1 guest