I just pre-ordered the D&D 4e core set off of Amazon.

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Postby BasharOfTheAges » Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:43 pm

The only books i've ever actually bought were the BESM d20 core books because I was running a game and needed a set. The 33 3.5E pdfs i have are good enough when my gaming club has a hard copy of just about every 3.5E book and at least 1 or 2 other copies of each book float around amongst the regular members. With all that purchased, i don't see why they'd buy 4e. If they do, i suppose i could buy all those 3.5e manuals from them on the cheep in a few months. I got a lot of random OGL 3rd ed. supplement books that way (for pennies on the dollar).
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Postby dwchang » Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:07 pm

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Postby Sukunai » Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:40 pm

Mithroch wrote:All you ever needed for 3.5 or 3.0 was the core books. That doesn't mean that they can't put more stuff out. People chose to play with the added options... and purchase (or pirate) the extra books. I've never understood why people complain about all of the extra books but then buy them anyway. What's more... these same people are willing pay for campaign settings and the fuck-ton of additional books that go with it without a second thought.


That all sounds utterly logical.

Then your players start buying all the friggin extra books. They show up, and get in a snit or moody when you won't include them. Somehow they think just because it was officially printed it all has to be just fine.

The moment you give in you're trapped. They of course don't seem stressed out if YOU can't afford them, and they don't seem to realize if you don't have them, you can't learn them. And if you don't have a grasp of them, you can't accommodate them properly in the game.

And then there's just the simple hassle of having them all present at the game.
And even if you ARE dumb enough to buy them all, they don't conveniently get lighter, making taking them to the game a real treat.

It's a lot more complicated than just saying "sorry guys, we're only using the 3 core manuals in my game". It easily some how just ends up not being as "fun" playing in YOUR game any more. Suddenly they want to play in Bob's game, because he doesn't mind using everything in printe under creation.

Of course my reply to one too many weird out of the ordinary extremely rare sounding peculiar feat wielding PCs out of some bloody manual I don't own, is to just invent a few off the cuff nasty surprises to which no official print will have ever heard of.
"What the hell sort of spell was THAT?!!"
Neat eh, I guess your player has never witnessed that one before.
"What manual is it from?, I want to check it out".
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Postby Mithroch » Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:38 am

Sukunai wrote:
Mithroch wrote:Mith said stuff... including "fuck-ton" cause he likes it better than "ass-load" though maybe "metric fuck-ton" would have been more potent


That all sounds utterly logical.

Then your players start buying all the friggin extra books. They show up, and get in a snit or moody when you won't include them. Somehow they think just because it was officially printed it all has to be just fine.

The moment you give in you're trapped. They of course don't seem stressed out if YOU can't afford them, and they don't seem to realize if you don't have them, you can't learn them. And if you don't have a grasp of them, you can't accommodate them properly in the game.

And then there's just the simple hassle of having them all present at the game.
And even if you ARE dumb enough to buy them all, they don't conveniently get lighter, making taking them to the game a real treat.

It's a lot more complicated than just saying "sorry guys, we're only using the 3 core manuals in my game". It easily some how just ends up not being as "fun" playing in YOUR game any more. Suddenly they want to play in Bob's game, because he doesn't mind using everything in printe under creation.

No... it really isn't any more complicated. If players are leaving over this... they aren't very good players to begin with... let "Bob" have them. It's always easy to find players... especially newbs that you can mold to your style of gaming. Good DMs however are hard to come by.

Sukunai wrote:Of course my reply to one too many weird out of the ordinary extremely rare sounding peculiar feat wielding PCs out of some bloody manual I don't own, is to just invent a few off the cuff nasty surprises to which no official print will have ever heard of.
"What the hell sort of spell was THAT?!!"
Neat eh, I guess your player has never witnessed that one before.
"What manual is it from?, I want to check it out".
My manual, and no, you can't check it out. But if you kill the guy that just cast it, you get to find out.


Yes yes yes... the best thing a DM can do is let his players have their toys... and then break them. If you know your player's tendencies well enough... you can even make it look like they screwed up... not that you were out to get them.
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Postby dwchang » Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:54 pm

"I cast Magic Missile...I'm attacking the Darkness."
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Postby Mithroch » Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:07 am

"OK... But if there's any girls there I wanna DO them!"
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Postby Sukunai » Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:35 pm

dwchang wrote:"I cast Magic Missile...I'm attacking the Darkness."


God I can HEAR the voice saying that line too.

I'm so glad I managed to get married though. But clearly there is a lot of geek in my background.
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Postby inthesto » Thu May 29, 2008 4:29 pm

Now that I actually have the books, I have to say that this is the best thing to ever happen in my life.
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Postby Kalium » Thu May 29, 2008 4:34 pm

Some people very much disagree: http://mcclaud.wordpress.com/2008/05/29 ... s-dd-post/

Me, I'm not making any hard decisions yet, but I'm not keen on what I've seen thus far.
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Postby inthesto » Thu May 29, 2008 4:52 pm

So the thing that mcclaud chooses to complain about is the fact that 4e needs miniatures? Was he in a fucking coma during all of 3.X, which was equally demanding of miniatures? Does he not have the budget to shell out ten bucks for a battle mat and two dollars for an extra set of dice to use as miniatures? Hell, my friend and I playtested two encounters last night, and we used flipping Stratego pieces.

Maybe WotC doesn't know shit about roleplaying (because apparently all the "roleplayers" on the internet tell me I don't know anything about it either), but mcclaud clearly doesn't know shit about games.

Or about not being a chump.
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Postby Sukunai » Thu May 29, 2008 6:32 pm

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Had to say that.

In the beginning, the actual beginning, it was a miniatures game. Not rolegaming with miniatures, just miniatures. Then they thought it would be nice to give the miniatures personalities.

Everything flowed from that.

Dungeons and Dragons regardless of the sub name and or edition has always rewarded 2 dimensional mindless hack n slash gaming over your character having any really interesting "colour". Too much colour only gets your character dead while being colourful.

Now me, I prefer ROLEplaying over ROLLplaying.
And I can make ANY game about roleplaying regardless of the design and the edition. It's largely because I have a quite considerable imagination, and an ability to ad lib and improvise like a total genius.

But some games require a lot of effort while some do not.

4e looks like it is going to be a wargamers edition.
Doesn't mean I can't make it a good game for rolegaming, but chances are I can buy a good design that makes ROLEgaming fundamentally simpler to achieve.

Is it a bad thing that 4e seems set to be a major merchandising extravaganza?
Well not if you own the company :)

I stopped buying Magic the Squandering a long time ago. But I'm sure each new edition has been fully playable. I just got bored of buying more and more cards, and watching the quantity of cards I couldn't play grow and grow.

The nice thing about 4e, is a grease pencil hash mark on a piece of clear plastic laid over a grid will do just as well as an expensive even if nicely painted miniature.
And the nice thing about grease pencils, you can always get the exact monster you need :) not only that, but it's easier to store several colours of grease pencil.

Anyone lamenting they "need" to buy miniatures to play 4e, here's your friggin sign.
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Postby Kitsuner » Thu May 29, 2008 7:50 pm

Sukunai wrote:And I can make ANY game about roleplaying regardless of the design and the edition. It's largely because I have a quite considerable imagination, and an ability to ad lib and improvise like a total genius.

And together, we show you how to improvise
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