Science and Faith

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Science and Faith

Postby Kalium » Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:37 pm

http://www.wellingtongrey.net/miscellan ... 0faith.png

I <3 BoingBoing, they point me to such wonderful things.

Anyway, this thing is short, sweet, and to the point in ways I cannot help but love.
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Postby dokool » Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:56 pm

Someone on Fark mentioned that the diagram on the right is missing the 'Be told what to think' step.
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Postby Otohiko » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:00 pm

Exactly, and I don't even know if it has the "get an idea" step. :roll:
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Postby Kalium » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:07 pm

Otohiko wrote:Exactly, and I don't even know if it has the "get an idea" step. :roll:

Perhaps it should be "steal an idea"?
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Postby badmartialarts » Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:28 pm

Wow, faith is far more streamlined. No wonder it's the popular choice.

:?


But my view is, if God was good enough for Einstein and Godel, he's good enough for me too. :P

(not that Godel and Einstein were shining examples of normalcy...but then again, neither am I)
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Postby Kalium » Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:45 pm

badmartialarts wrote:But my view is, if God was good enough for Einstein and Godel, he's good enough for me too. :P

(not that Godel and Einstein were shining examples of normalcy...but then again, neither am I)

Nor, for that matter, was Einstein exactly a shining example of theism.
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Postby Orwell » Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:53 pm

badmartialarts wrote:But my view is, if God was good enough for Einstein and Godel, he's good enough for me too.


This statement is far more interesting before you realize that Godel is NOT Goebbel.
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Postby badmartialarts » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:00 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del ... ical_proof

And yeah, Einstein was more of a deist. So am I, more or less, although I think God CAN act on the world (which some deists dispute, Hawking in A Brief History of Time argues that God might not have even needed to be the Prime Mover. Talk about lazy deities.). Getting into my philosophy would take a while, and is better suited to like LiveJournal or something. Because I really don't want a Rwar here. (although they ARE fun). :)
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Postby Kalium » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:10 pm

Einstein wasn't even much of a deist. His vision of God didn't line up very well with anything even vaguely Abrahamic.
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Postby requiett » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:31 pm

It's wrong to immediately dismiss either ideal offhand for your own uneducated lack of evidence. Science and religion are replete with self-contridictions.

We've observed as far into the construction of our reality as humanly possible, yet we have no idea how we even observe it.

And so, just to complicate matters in this so-called debate, I invite you to try some magic mushrooms or LSD, and see how well your beliefs in this universe hold up.
8-)
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Postby Otohiko » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:41 pm

Kalium wrote:Einstein wasn't even much of a deist. His vision of God didn't line up very well with anything even vaguely Abrahamic.


I think I could be very much with Einstein on that one as well. I certainly don't reject a notion of god, but I reject the notion of an Abrahamic god or even a sentient god. I don't actually even care for the term 'god' and that's why I always write it in lowercase. My notion of god is comparable to the Gurjieffian "Trogoautoegocrat = the process by which everything in the universe is the way it is", and that's as far as I'm willing to take it. That automatically precludes any concept of religion for me, dispenses with the notion of objective morals, eternal life, salvation or divine enlightenment, and equates any sort of worship to the same level of function as a cargo cult (or below).

Strangely I'm still okay :roll:
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Postby Kalium » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:41 pm

requiett wrote:It's wrong to immediately dismiss either ideal offhand for your own uneducated lack of evidence. Science and religion are replete with self-contridictions.

Please, cite a few contradictions within science. I'd like to see what you're thinking of. There are lots of them within religion.

requiett wrote:We've observed as far into the construction of our reality as humanly possible, yet we have no idea how we even observe it.

Wrong on both counts. Scientists (and attentive laymen) know there is more than can be observed. Scientists (and attentive laymen) also have a pretty good idea how most of our methodologies work, too.

requiett wrote:And so, just to complicate matters in this so-called debate, I invite you to try some magic mushrooms or LSD, and see how well your beliefs in this universe hold up. 8-)

Do you honestly think, even for a second, that I don't know what hallucinations are like? Or that random neurochemical firings in the brain have any impact on how physics and chemistry and similar work?

I like the 'different ways of knowing' argument. It's so full of shit that it's explosive from all the methane.
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Postby Otohiko » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:43 pm

requiett wrote:And so, just to complicate matters in this so-called debate, I invite you to try some magic mushrooms or LSD, and see how well your beliefs in this universe hold up. 8-)


Magic mushrooms and LSD are actually my smoking gun for the material nature of being and the impossibility for being outside of it. Fuck with your brain chemistry and watch being flip out and completely reverse itself. No brain chemistry, no being. :roll:
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Postby requiett » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:55 pm

If God is the ultimate scientist, and we are his experiment, then, like any good scientist, he wouldn't interfere with it until it's reached the predictable outcome.
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Postby Otohiko » Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:00 pm

Okay, I can see that, though in that case why is this more probable than the absence of god as such? In this case I think the 'absence' position should just as well serve as the unmarked position. And I'm a believer in unmarked positions.

Likewise, this would also suggest a highly idealized modern (rather than post-modern) view of science.
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