People whining about others stealing their AMVs...

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Postby elvirasweeney » Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:08 am

Hmmm . . . I'm obviously totally out of the loop, because plagiarism is something I never liked, and I wouldn't call it "whining" to be upset when it happens to you. I must be totally out of the loop with this one, because I don't get it. I once had a teacher plagiarize an article I wrote online and yes, I was pretty upset about it and raised a bit of a fuss. Huh.
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Postby Arigatomina » Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:53 am

elvirasweeney wrote:I must be totally out of the loop with this one, because I don't get it.

Nah, it's an amv-only-loop. You don't get that sort of attitude in other fan-hobbies. Just amvs.

It's fueled by this idea that we're just "chopping up cartoons to other people's music" and so there's nothing to be proud of of, no effort involved, no creative input to take credit for. People in this hobby actually think everyone else in this hobby is shit, wasting their time pretending what they do is anything but a waste of time, and yet they're still hanging around with big heads. It's contradicting, but that's how it is. If you take pride in your hobby, you're a dumbass. If you take pride in mocking people who take pride in their hobby, you've got your head on straight for not thinking it's anything but chopping up cartoons to other people's music. The thought process doesn't have to make sense as long as understand how to act in public. Demoralize your amv hobby, demean your fellow editors, and always remember that you're not doing anything important or special. Then when someone rips off your effort you can shrug and sniff because it's no more significant than when another dirty kid on the playground steals your mudpies and gives them away like he patted them himself. It's just mud. What's there to get upset about? Stupid people. Psh.

Note that plagiarism is still looked down on in most other hobbies. Fanfiction and fanart had the PPP - because unlike amv editors they took pride in their contributions to the hobby. Too much pride, maybe, but they never made a practice of preaching "what you do is crap, stop caring about it." I think that's one of the reasons the amv community is so bad compared to other fan communities. It's the only hobby I've ever seen where you're encouraged to believe you and your fellow hobbiests are morons doing nothing and caring nothing about what you're doing. It's no wonder newbies have more fun. They haven't been taught not to care yet. :roll:
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Postby Kristyrat » Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:17 pm

I think it's an interesting issue, because I don't see it as not caring about the videos, surely everyone cares a little for something they create. I think what we're looking at here though is the number of people complaining to the forums that someone has 'stolen' their video. Sure I care if somebody takes one of my videos and credits it to themselves, but what does bitching about it to everyone you see going to do? There's not a thing the people in these forums can really do about someone who puts someone else's video on BoobTube, except maybe post mean comments, which the uploader can choose to delete. It's not that we don't care, it's that these people expect something from us, and we are either incapable of providing it, or recognize that it happens so damn often that it's utterly pointless to try and stop every instance of it.
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Postby elvirasweeney » Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:26 pm

Thank you so much for explaining it, Arigatomina, because I was getting rather confused.

You're right about other fandoms—they do take more pride in their work. And I don't think that's a bad thing.

On another message board I frequent, two fan fiction authors have recently had their work (not fan fic, obviously) picked up by publishers, and are now published authors. This all came about because they had enough interest in writing and started doing it as a geeky hobby. They got input, critiques and support from fellow fans, which helped them improve their skills. Now they've made it to the "big time." It may have never happened were it not for their geeky fan hobby! :D

The same thing happens with fan art, blah blah blah. The hobby of makng fan works itself is fun and something to be proud of, but also, it's undeniable that these activities (writing, art, video) can be a "stepping stone" to something more. It's a good thing. People should be proud of it.
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Postby JudgeHolden » Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:06 pm

Zarxrax, see what you have started .... :P
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Postby godix » Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:36 pm

Arigatomina wrote:Demoralize your amv hobby, demean your fellow editors, and always remember that you're not doing anything important or special.

Wow. A woman who understands me. I thought this would never happen. Will you marry me?

Too much pride, maybe, but they never made a practice of preaching "what you do is crap, stop caring about it."

Actually you're taking the wrong message. The message is "what THE PLAGIARIZERS are doing is crap, stop caring about it". I don't recall anyone seriously saying it was good that people claim credit for videos they didn't make. However unless it is a case where the person received clear benefit from your work, EG they use a video land a video editing job, then it's just a case of some idiot trying to get a bigger e-penis and is that really worth you getting upset about? Bad mouth the fucker in his videos comments. Mark it as violating the tubes terms of service. Forget about it. It isn't worth more concern than that.
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Postby Arigatomina » Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:49 pm

godix wrote:Wow. A woman who understands me. I thought this would never happen. Will you marry me?

Ah, your wife might not like that and I'm not big on threesomes unless it's guyxguyxgirl. :cry:

Actually you're taking the wrong message. The message is "what THE PLAGIARIZERS are doing is crap, stop caring about it". I don't recall anyone seriously saying it was good that people claim credit for videos they didn't make.

In this thread, maybe. But I've seen plenty of people posting comments such as "you're stealing someone else's footage and music, you're just as bad as them, get over yourself" and "you cut up cartoons in your free time, go stick your head in a toilet and flush." It's a common theme. I've seen it so much in Gen AMV about org-hosted vids I went and ranted all over my journal to let off steam (privatized, of course). It's almost obligatory - someone takes too much pride in their work and complains about being ripped off, and an org member posts about how it's a crap hobby to begin with so it doesn't matter. I figure it's an org forum thing. It was going on here long before That Site started getting popular. There's nothing you can do when it happens over there, but even when it happens here and the mods are obligated (rules) to delete the local videos, we get members posting to remind us that "they're just amvs, it's not like it matters."

Funny note, though, these are the same people who complain about bad amvs and dbz/naruto newbs. Can't take pride in your efforts, but you're still expected to produce quality. ;p
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Postby Tsunami Jones » Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:21 pm

A nice chunk of my vids have been stolen, almost all of which give me credit for them. Either way, I don't care. To me it's sort of a turn about is fair play kinda thing.
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Postby SarahtheBoring » Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:38 pm

I think you have a point, Ari, but I think both ends are a little extreme - "this is stupid and a waste of time" and "we are all special and beautiful snowflakes who need to be cherished and coddled no matter how hard we suck".

Middle ground? Please?

I don't know whether the "AMVs suck" attitude in the AMV community is nerd shame or backlash against the usual human trend of self-aggrandizement. Probably both. Although it's not unusual to savage bad examples of your chosen fanwork (bad fic, ugly cosplay, etc.), the vague self-deprecation is weird. Eh, who knows.
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Postby elvirasweeney » Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:09 pm

Tsunami Jones wrote:A nice chunk of my vids have been stolen, almost all of which give me credit for them.

Giving credit makes a HUGE difference. I notice a lot of people swiping my stuff (mostly graphics) and if they give me credit and even perhaps link to me, I almost never care. Sometimes they swipe my stuff and don't give me credit, but if my URL is right on the graphic, I usually don't care. They see the URL there, they know everyone sees the URL there, so obviously they imply giving credit.

The ones who wipe off the URL, though, and claim they did the work—that really steams me.
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Postby Minion » Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:07 pm

Arigatomina wrote:
godix wrote:Wow. A woman who understands me. I thought this would never happen. Will you marry me?

Ah, your wife might not like that and I'm not big on threesomes unless it's guyxguyxgirl. :cry:


so you want to be double stuffed? :| hell, why not room for man #3
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Postby Arigatomina » Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:57 pm

Minion wrote:so you want to be double stuffed? :| hell, why not room for man #3

Actually, I'd rather be filming from the sidelines, but that's an entirely different thread. ^_^
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Postby godix » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:17 am

Arigatomina wrote:
godix wrote:Wow. A woman who understands me. I thought this would never happen. Will you marry me?

Ah, your wife might not like that and I'm not big on threesomes unless it's guyxguyxgirl. :cry:

If she doesn't shave for a few days she could pass as a guy and if you think about it, who cares if she'd like it or not? You never met the woman so I doubt you care and I know I don't. Which means 2/3 the participants would be happy and two out of three ain't bad. So come on, marry me. I'll even get you a pair of those cute harem girl type pants.

In this thread, maybe. But I've seen plenty of people posting comments such as "you're stealing someone else's footage and music, you're just as bad as them, get over yourself" and "you cut up cartoons in your free time, go stick your head in a toilet and flush."

And to a certain extent it's true. AMVs aren't like other art forms that were mentioned. A fanfic author doesn't use the original creators writing, he just bases his stores in that fictional universe. Ditto for fanartist, the characters are someone elses idea but that art is all them. AMVs on the other hand use the ideas, music, and artwork of others. We clearly add our own ideas and originality but from a purely plagiaristic point of view we steal more from the original than other fan hobbies. Does this mean AMVs are inherently bad or something to be ashamed of? Of course not, I wouldn't be here if I thought so. But it does mean it's very hypocritical of us to steal so much that technically what we do is illegal but turn around and whine about being stolen from. I understand why people get ticked someone on the tube put up their work unattributed but if they get so pissed that they'll turn around and bitch about it here, on a totally different site, as if it was a high crime then they really need to evaluate the ethical and legal implications of what they're doing.
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Postby godix » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:20 am

Minion wrote:
Arigatomina wrote:
godix wrote:Wow. A woman who understands me. I thought this would never happen. Will you marry me?

Ah, your wife might not like that and I'm not big on threesomes unless it's guyxguyxgirl. :cry:


so you want to be double stuffed? :| hell, why not room for man #3

Because after years of being on this site I'm still not sure where we'd get man #2 from much less #3. Real men seem to be in short supply here. If you happen to know any kindly inform them that Arigatomina and I have a proposition for them.
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Postby Ch3aLs3A L!n@ » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:29 am

godix - galiz wrote:
Arigatomina wrote:
godix wrote:Wow. A woman who understands me. I thought this would never happen. Will you marry me?

Ah, your wife might not like that and I'm not big on threesomes unless it's guyxguyxgirl. :cry:

If she doesn't shave for a few days she could pass as a guy and if you think about it, who cares if she'd like it or not? You never met the woman so I doubt you care and I know I don't. Which means 2/3 the participants would be happy and two out of three ain't bad. So come on, marry me. I'll even get you a pair of those cute harem girl type pants.

Just :roll: wondering why Arigatomina doesn't like you :lol: well I'm not a type of harem for sure of that. :lol:


godix - galiz wrote:
In this thread, maybe. But I've seen plenty of people posting comments such as "you're stealing someone else's footage and music, you're just as bad as them, get over yourself" and "you cut up cartoons in your free time, go stick your head in a toilet and flush."

And to a certain extent it's true. AMVs aren't like other art forms that were mentioned. A fanfic author doesn't use the original creators writing, he just bases his stores in that fictional universe. Ditto for fanartist, the characters are someone elses idea but that art is all them. AMVs on the other hand use the ideas, music, and artwork of others. We clearly add our own ideas and originality but from a purely plagiaristic point of view we steal more from the original than other fan hobbies. Does this mean AMVs are inherently bad or something to be ashamed of? Of course not, I wouldn't be here if I thought so. But it does mean it's very hypocritical of us to steal so much that technically what we do is illegal but turn around and whine about being stolen from. I understand why people get ticked someone on the tube put up their work unattributed but if they get so pissed that they'll turn around and bitch about it here, on a totally different site, as if it was a high crime then they really need to evaluate the ethical and legal implications of what they're doing.

yea in some point your right so i agree but what's the gud and better IDEA in that? Just keep your mouth shut up then watch other non-creator all the credits they get? :?
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