Sephiroth wrote:Want out of your comfort zone? I'm fine with that, I demand proof of every single thing any of you claim. Especially if your demanding others to change based on those claims.
What, specifically, do you want "proof" of? And what kind of "proof" would you like to see?
More importantly, what are the "claims" that you think are being made? Or which specifically are you concerned with?
Sephiroth wrote:Lets see, people making claims that anyone is Privileged, even with your example below i can easily say that women have a set of invisible privileges they aren't aware of or at least not listing. So even in the event of 'Privilege' that need to be looked at in comparison to 'privilege' that is enjoyed by females. The way 'Privilaged' was used was very much orintated towards the males. Just because you feel privileged doesn't mean you are, even if you are Privilaged that doesn't mean you are privileged in a particular area. That AMVs are dominated by men, and i will want to know how that conclusion was reached.
Sephiroth wrote:The claim of privilege is stating that there exists a preferential bias for the male gender.
For the purposes of a discussion like this, I think that "privilege" is understood to be a set of advantages that one group has over another. As a white male in the USA, I enjoy lots of it! Granted, I try to be conscious of its role in how it affects me in one situation or another, and I try not to (pre)judge others through the lens that it's imposed on my worldview, but it certainly does help me out (and I need all the help I can get, trust me). I would say that "privilege" is not the same as discrimination
, or at least not in the traditional sense that most people are most familiar with. Rather, it's a more subtle and widespread phenomenon. You may encounter it daily and not even notice it. Yep, that can happen. But it still shapes our society and our collective behaviors (you, me, men and
women). Trust me, it exists. But here's the good news: its existence does not mean that all males are bad people! That conclusion would be a huge mischaracterization of feminist theory as well as the ideas presented in this thread. Plus I like to think that we're all here to be friends and to peacefully work out our differences. The OP presents no ill will towards anyone in this thread and if you think any of it does, it might be helpful to point out exactly where because I think we need to come to an understanding about that before we accomplish anything worthwhile here.
When it comes to the idea of "privilege," I'd say that it's not
someone's work simply because of their gender because of a bias that's been socialized into someone's set of values. Sure, that happens (and is a despicable habit of some
people, I'm sure we can agree on that). But it sets up our expectations for others, leads us to make assumptions about what they're capable of, what experiences they might have had, or whether they're a "good fit" for the team or the job or whatever group is in question. This happens subconsciously, becomes part of how we see the world, how we view others, and how we accept others' behaviors. And when we assert privilege (consciously or unconsciously), we remind others of the power structure that is in place in both our subculture as well as society as a whole, which serves to put people "in their place" and reinforce the social hierarchy that exists in our world. Are you interested in specific examples of this?
Sephiroth wrote:Ok but at that point arent they just gendered expectation and things associated with gender roles rather then privileges. Even within the confines of that what you just listed also can apply to the female gender will they have the same ones no. Just because someone has one set of Privilages doesn't mean other people don't have others. I have to go to work i'll continue this later
Sephiroth wrote:If you can do something, things like race, sex, skin color, or sexual preferences should have no bearing on your ability to pursue that.
No one here is stating that women's rights to create AMVs are being infringed upon. Or that they are being excluded from contests or judged unfairly in them. This isn't really about AMVs in themselves
at all, but (if I understand the OP correctly) the culture that has grown up around them. This happens on the board here, happens across anime fandom (both online and
at conventions), is prevalent across all of "geek culture" (from comic fandom to video games to all things tech-related, and more...) and is the social norm in practically every sphere of the Internet. You are free to deny that if you wish but it would help us all if you had some reasons for doing so. And if you want "evidence," I can get you some but you've got to agree to stick around, read and consider it, and not simply write it off as "a few bad apples" or anything like that.
Sephiroth wrote: That was in a new paragraph and i was stating very planely what my views on gender rights were.
From the exact same Wikipedia entry that you just quoted (as long as we're going to use that site as an authority on the matter):
In feminist theory, misogyny is a negative attitude towards women as a group, and so need not fully determine a misogynist's attitude towards each individual woman. The fact that someone holds misogynist views may not prevent him or her from having positive relationships with some women. Conversely, simply having negative relationships with some women does not necessarily mean someone holds misogynistic views. The term, like most negative descriptions of attitudes, is applied to a wide variety of behaviors and attitudes.
I find that perfectly reasonable and very difficult to characterize as unfair. Would you agree?