ACTA and Internet Censorship

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Re: ACTA and Internet Censorship

Postby Knowname » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:14 pm

:( and one of the dominos is lined up to fall
If you do not think so... you will DIE
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Re: ACTA and Internet Censorship

Postby chronosek » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:25 pm

government show us rhat is bribed ...

btw, one more vid : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMeREqQhuqM
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Re: ACTA and Internet Censorship

Postby chronosek » Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:55 am

nome news , Polish government still wants ratification of ACTA ....

http://rt.com/news/acta-poland-arif-resignation-931/
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Re: ACTA and Internet Censorship

Postby aesling » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:11 am

FFS, he hasn't been sentenced yet, or even convicted. At least get your facts straight.
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Re: ACTA and Internet Censorship

Postby Emong » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:51 pm

^ But the general idea is valid, no? Haven't the fees for file sharing been ridiculously high? That's what you get when your legal system is not primarily based on social justice but on the protection of private property.
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Re: ACTA and Internet Censorship

Postby JaddziaDax » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:20 pm

That image has been circulating Facebook :/
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Re: ACTA and Internet Censorship

Postby Otohiko » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:24 pm

Emong wrote: That's what you get when your legal system is not primarily based on social justice but on the protection of private property.


Why are those two things mutually exclusive? That's a false opposition and has nothing to do with the matter at hand. Misleading, hyperbole-filled rhetoric doesn't help anybody and just attracts people to causes based on false premises, making them more likely to buy into the false premises that 'social injustice' as such is rooted on.

In my view that sort of thing damages the supposed moral superiority of the protests here. And the notion of Kim Schmitz having moral superiority and being a friend of social justice is kind of... :roll:
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Re: ACTA and Internet Censorship

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:32 pm

Otohiko wrote:
Emong wrote: That's what you get when your legal system is not primarily based on social justice but on the protection of private property.


Why are those two things mutually exclusive? That's a false opposition and has nothing to do with the matter at hand. Misleading, hyperbole-filled rhetoric doesn't help anybody and just attracts people to causes based on false premises, making them more likely to buy into the false premises that 'social injustice' as such is rooted on.

In my view that sort of thing damages the supposed moral superiority of the protests here. And the notion of Kim Schmitz having moral superiority and being a friend of social justice is kind of... :roll:

How many major uprisings in history didn't come about through subtle prodding of ignorant and angry masses with poor data? Change doesn't spring forth from ideologicaly pure means, its wrested from the tyranny of one by the tyranny of the next on the backs of the ignorant furor.
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Re: ACTA and Internet Censorship

Postby Emong » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:38 pm

Otohiko wrote:
Emong wrote: That's what you get when your legal system is not primarily based on social justice but on the protection of private property.


Why are those two things mutually exclusive? That's a false opposition and has nothing to do with the matter at hand. Misleading, hyperbole-filled rhetoric doesn't help anybody and just attracts people to causes based on false premises, making them more likely to buy into the false premises that 'social injustice' as such is rooted on.

Note my word primarily. I'm not saying private property shouldn't be protected at all but we should shift the balance a lot more on the side of social justice. And how does it not have anything to do with the matter at hand? We're talking about copyright and intellectual property, which is just another extension to the list of artificial commodities within capitalism. It has everything to do with the matter at hand.
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Re: ACTA and Internet Censorship

Postby Otohiko » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:58 pm

Emong wrote:We're talking about copyright and intellectual property, which is just another extension to the list of artificial commodities within capitalism. It has everything to do with the matter at hand.


Well, mind you, you don't have to convince me (some might know where I stand on socialism). I'm not attacking the concern with regulation of culture and the obvious hypocrisy that we sometimes see with these things. But that's where my concern is - fighting tyranny with tyranny creates more tyranny. Fighting hypocrisy with hypocrisy creates more hypocrisy. This is precisely an example of that, and let's not fool ourselves with the fact that attacking treatment of Schmitz through fallacious means - hardly a shining example of someone deeply concerned with the wrongs of capitalism (and possibly a shining example of everything that's wrong about them) - is anything but hypocritical.

If there's ever a good cause to start talking about social justice and capitalist wrongs, this case is not one of them. Likewise, if anyone thinks that the only thing that happened here was just "shared music" and that this is about private property being protected at the expense of social justice - well where do you even get that here? You've got a company here that has obviously made tens of millions on doing something that obviously takes advantage of the work of many without providing compensation. Sorry, but all I'm seeing here is not a concern with social justice, but a bunch of people being had by idiotic hyperbole connecting an issue they don't understand to situations where it's irrelevant. But hey, it makes for a good slogan to circulate on facebook!
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Re: ACTA and Internet Censorship

Postby Emong » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:18 pm

^ Oh, then we sort of agree since I was saying similar things on another thread. I couldn't really care less about defending Schmitz and I certainly don't want to turn the spotlight on him as if he's some kind of a martyr. I'm merely waving the leftist flag here and saying that all these concerns with PIPA/SOPA/ACTA can be formulated in terms of privatization of commons and integrated to the leftist agenda.
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Re: ACTA and Internet Censorship

Postby Otohiko » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:27 pm

Alright, no problem there then!

Like I say, I'm completely on the same page otherwise, and I agree that what's going on here is very unjust and can indeed be formulated in terms of very big macro-economic issues. In fact, the unfortunate thing is that SOPA/PIPA/ACTA is the tip of the iceberg on the actual injustices, and it's kind of sad that it takes the internet being under threat for people to get nervous, when in fact worse injustices are done legally and on a daily basis, in the name of the right to own property.
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Re: ACTA and Internet Censorship

Postby Emong » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:32 pm

^ which is why I'd rather choose Occupy than all these anti-PIPA/SOPA/ACTA movements :P
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Re: ACTA and Internet Censorship

Postby Otohiko » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:02 pm

...I should point out that I have my share of issues with Occupy also. Although most of them are the same issues as that poster that I jumped on - a lot of sloganization and hyperbole as opposed to addressing the central issues. The '99%' slogan, if anything, probably cost the Occupy movement my support (not that anyone is crying over it, I guess). I'm still sympathetic, but I would be more so if it was aimed at the consumer lifestyle lived by far, far more than 1% of people which is the real problem.
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