Welcome to General Deception

This forum is for members to discuss topics that do not relate to anime music videos.

Welcome to General Deception

Postby NME » Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:34 pm

Where the past is only available to paying customers and Youtube was once a dirty word.
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby Otohiko » Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:51 pm

well, technically the past is not available to anyone at the moment. Except the moderati.
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby NME » Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:57 pm

The fabled OT archives? They don't exist.

They are the stuff of legends, passed down in a hushed whisper by the ancients throughout the generations.

But still, nothing but a legend.
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby Otohiko » Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:09 pm

Oh yeah?

Image

But the real question is, even assuming they were available, would these be in any way useful or productive?

I miss the old OT too, but you can't bring it back, nor - after over 7 years - will bringing it back actually do anything. If it's really an issue, I can talk to those in the know and see if the archive can be dumped somewhere externally if you want to look at it - I just don't think opening the archives up as part of the ongoing forums here is useful or will serve the interest of more than just a small group of oldfags (myself included) who participated in those forums and are still around today.

One discussion forum is enough - let's just try to have a new start instead of trying to live up to the old OT.
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby NME » Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:36 pm

Old OT is dead and gone and there won't ever be anything quite like it again. The internet is a different place these days and the org lost most of the posters who made the old OT such a vibrant place. Nostalgia's gaze wears rose-coloured glasses anyway.

I still fail to see how the administrators taking such a hardline stance in regards to censorship is healthy for the social operation of this place. I just wonder where all the donation money goes when you guys are doing this stuff for free and the community is growing elsewhere but dying here! I wonder how much profit gets made off donations vs. how much this is a legitimate hobby site and not just a scam to charge for functionality that should be there in the first place if this site wants to survive on the post-youtube internet of 2011.

I love this art form, this community that introduced me to it and the friendships I've made because of it. I will be damned if some nerd steers this beautiful zeppelin into the ground due to his own lack of direction.

The humanity.
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby Otohiko » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:57 am

So what do you propose we do? You've been calling bullshit on everything time and time again with neither substantiation nor a concrete solution to anything. Look, I appreciate the concern for the community because that's my concern too. But either you suggest something, do something yourself, or at least if you take up critique - take it up on something concrete. Otherwise this is just going to go back and forth. As far as forums, as I've said, I'm happy to dig up whatever you're interested in. As far as community generally, donations, or site redesign - we have a whole forum talking about the .org's future in no uncertain terms. You're welcome to prod with pointed sticks there as much as you like, as long as you can bring something useful to the table. Sure there's hard questions to be asked, but you're not asking any, instead just attacking the nearest semblance of authority because it's suspect by default. Now if you stop looking at the administration as some grand authority to be questioned, you'll find there's plenty of opportunities to talk to and query site admins, assuming you're willing to at least talk on the same level and with an assumption of mutual goodwill.. But nope, you climb up on higher moral ground and refuse to do that, cause it feels too good up there. So, it ends up in this back and forth, until you get ignored and interpret that as censure.
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby CastielTheFallen » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:52 am

I was going to pick a good bit of that apart George, but i think I'll just leave it to NME here.
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby NME » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:05 pm

INCOMING WALL OF TEXT

I am doing something. You want action and a rallying cry? A waving flag? I just ordered one along with a Che Guevara shirt and this killer distressed graphic tee with the anarchy symbol on it.

This thread is a critique on policy and a reminder that the admins here have a funny way of glazing over real facts. Mods too apparently. This is what it is and this is what it always has been. Just a friendly reminder to those who are new or too drunk to remember last month <3 :)

I've tried to have dialogue with higher ups, it's abundantly clear to me that they are more interested in having circlejerks with their friends than actually preserving this community or making it function. It's also my reputation that's getting in the way of actual communication. Apparently you can't question authority without the other monkeys getting worked up. Too bad, since most monkeys ain't cognitively advanced enough to question authority, or themselves for that matter. It's a pitiful world.

If they cared they wouldn't be running this site into the ground with all these rules that PROHIBIT ACTUAL CREATIVE THOUGHT AND EXPRESSION. If they had any vision or social competence they would understand that while guidelines are important, they do very little to increase our ability to understand and adapt or make art that is a true representation of our heart and soul.

This site has only gotten worse since shit Phade shit himself over getting sued by the RIAA and went into lockdown mode. This is art for fuck's sake. How is a restriction in the realm of the creation of art beneficial to actual expression and the medium? How are foul language and violence even seen as an issue? Why can't we edit our posts unless we pay money? Why could you not edit your posts for a long time back in the day? Why is the functionality of this site on a 10 dollar per year use basis when captcha or other revenue streams could be utilized instead? Why are you still reading this? cause it makes you think

IMO The policy on this site has been directly influenced by the new wave of terror in the United states. As surely as the academic institutions and workplaces have adapted to post 9/11 life with new rules and regulations, websites have as well. These rules are not for the protection or preservation of anyone but the person who owns this site and has legal liability. We are afraid and making policy decisions from a place of fear - THIS IS NOT HEALTHY AND WILL NOT PRODUCE GOOD RULES.

Phade or the moderati or puppet boy or whatever herd runs this site now are not capable. If you're offended, too damned bad. I watched the IRC channel go from a lush, vividly coloured rainforest that I helped sow to a barren field of stumps cut down by AD and his strict observance of rules created in a time of war and fear in the world. Then AD turned around and broke most of them on a consistent basis and pulled the dictator card whenever it happened. He must just be more equal than others, just like the sunken modship and the other puppet admins who have the presence and likability of boiled spaghetti. The fact that mods and admins keep changing on this site tells me that there's something going on in the leadership chain. At this point it looks to me like whoever is in charge of ordering the power structure in this community has been fumbling with it since 2003.

Listen, I know ya'll are well meaning but when you get a bunch of monkeys in a room they are going to eventually have issue. There will always be problems in social communities that need to be taken care of prudently and responsibly, however, employing people who are basically social incompetents does nothing but promote disharmony. This is the IRC currently. The IRC isn't helped by the fact that it's an asinine committee of people who don't even have the time to do their duty on a consistent basis or communicate with each other. It's all hush-hush and done behind closed doors. The IRC channel is run like a fucking day care. This is what you people want isn't it? Someone to think for you? Someone to tell you what to do?

On to the redesign: This redesign is too little too late and will do nothing to attract people if the social climate stays this way. People have more autonomy on YT and more freedom to speak their minds and that will be far more attractive.

If the higher ups in this scene can't handle people speaking their mind and asking for a leadership that actually understands how to run things to the benefit of their users and the community at large there is no hope. The question is, at a time when the admins are clear-cutting: Are you bracing against the tree with all your might or lying down on the forest floor blanketed by its looming shadow, awaiting the crushing blow?

A state of the org address? Really? You compare yourself tongue-in-cheek to the president? That's fitting, cause Barack's a pawn too.

This site needs new leadership, without a competent plan to move forward it's dead.

As far as I'm concerned a place that limits my ability to express myself DOES NOT HAVE MY GOOD WILL IN MIND. If you disagree, so be it. But that shit don't fly with me no way no how and it makes me sick to my stomach that other people think this shit is alright.
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:37 pm

So, basically "I don't like rules" would sum that up? Maybe "I don't like structure either" thrown in? Do you get completely lost and flip your shit in a library because they classify books into categories and don't carry porn?
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby NME » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:26 pm

Rules are fine, categories are fine as well. It's when they stifle expression and creative impulse that they ruin our ability to fully express ourselves. In this way of thinking everyone suffers and produces poor quality product that is not as challenging, stimulating, or unique.

This is a meeting place for artists as much as it is an anal-retentive obsessive list of AMVs. If the administrators lack the vision to see that it was better and more conducive to a creative environment when the rules were more lax they will likely never see this fact.

They're too old and set in their ways and afraid.

It's mostly the fear.
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby kenisama » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:07 pm

NME seems really butt hurt about something...
NME wrote:This site needs new leadership, without a competent plan to move forward it's dead.

After reading you lengthy post, I realize... you complain a lot. But just where exactly do you want this website to go? You've yet to drive that point home. a-m-v.org does the best at what it does, host amvs and share it with link minded people, everything else after that is just... extra.
George Orwell wrote:People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby NME » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:54 pm

If you're finished missing my point entirely, I'll reiterate for you:

If things don't change and soon this site is dead and might as well shut down because it's following a dead business model. The redesign does little to deal with the chief fact that it was a change in social policy that got people to leave and go elsewhere - not a functionality issue. Now there is a functionality issue because Youtube does what the org does about a million times better for free.

Kris, it was a nice ride while it lasted and you and Vlad will always have terabytes of obsessively archived videos to watch at your every whim and share with everyone else, but Youtube is too big for you to compete with with a community this strict and elitist.

Too much elitism, too much divide between Youtubers and ORG users. You fucking morons are one and the same. Grow up.
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:11 pm

What "social policy" are you talking about?

Note, IIRC Doki's mentioned that the majority of the site's accounts have never posted on or even accessed the forums. So that avenue is certainly not relevant to the discussion when it comes to what the majority of users see or even react to.

What has changed on the site itself in terms of rules or regulations? I've only seen more offered. Hosting in general, commenting, then streaming. Content guidelines have always been there, so they haven't changed at all. What's changed?

Or (complete speculation here) do you not understand the concept of "niche" for some reason?
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby inthesto » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:01 pm

NME wrote:IMO The policy on this site has been directly influenced by the new wave of terror in the United states. As surely as the academic institutions and workplaces have adapted to post 9/11 life with new rules and regulations, websites have as well. These rules are not for the protection or preservation of anyone but the person who owns this site and has legal liability. We are afraid and making policy decisions from a place of fear - THIS IS NOT HEALTHY AND WILL NOT PRODUCE GOOD RULES.

Phade or the moderati or puppet boy or whatever herd runs this site now are not capable. If you're offended, too damned bad. I watched the IRC channel go from a lush, vividly coloured rainforest that I helped sow to a barren field of stumps cut down by AD and his strict observance of rules created in a time of war and fear in the world. Then AD turned around and broke most of them on a consistent basis and pulled the dictator card whenever it happened. He must just be more equal than others, just like the sunken modship and the other puppet admins who have the presence and likability of boiled spaghetti. The fact that mods and admins keep changing on this site tells me that there's something going on in the leadership chain. At this point it looks to me like whoever is in charge of ordering the power structure in this community has been fumbling with it since 2003.


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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby NME » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:04 pm

Unfortunately Bashar, you weren't around for the old days of Off Topic so you have very little frame of reference. Social policy is the guidelines with which we conduct ourselves in social groups.

Now, in the wake the legal backlash from the lawyers representing Seether and Evanescence towards the org the social policy of this site changed incredibly around mid-to-late 2003. Phade sees one legal threat and shits himself and puts the org on lockdown. Crucial places to unwind were removed from the community and this spread this need to unwind behaviour into other parts of the community. The journal system sprung up in its place and filled some of the void but the journal system was fucking stupid and worthless as a forum: BUT THE THING IS PEOPLE STARTED USING IT AS ONE BECAUSE THEY WANTED A PLACE TO UNWIND THAT WASN'T SO ANAL ABOUT EVERYTHING AND ALLOWED THEM TO SPEAK THEIR MINDS (WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT HUH?)

Summer of 2004 time I had started an IRC channel along with Jace Tsunami and Taberis because we realized there needed to be a place to unwind and let loose if the forums were going to be on lockdown and even more restricted. Unfortunately Jace Tsunami handed the channel over to the org and teenage apathy on my and Taberis' part caused us to defer to the twenty-somethings who were put in charge. We were still ops but the IRC channel soon became locked down in the same ways that the forum had been the year previous.

An aside, Phade has spoken on the AIM room and for quite a while the link to it was removed from the org because "we have no control over what goes on in there." This is a position of fear. Phade is scared and most of you are too.

They're still on lockdown to this day btw and the proof of this is in the fact that the admins will open up General Discussion to us, but surround it with the term "discussion" as if legitimizing it and making it sound less like "off topic" will stop people from using it as a spamming ground or at worst a myriad of other things like GASP! Piracy! or GASP! PORNOGRAPHY! Then they bow to ridiculous peer pressure and block off posts that certain butthurt paying customers don't want others to see. Here's a wacky idea! If you don't want people seeing your picture on the internet DON'T POST YOUR PICTURE ON THE INTERNET.

Whoever complained and got that done has serious issues in taking responsibility for their own actions, when they expect another to come to their rescue purely because they made a decision to do something that they regret. Fucking childish behaviour, I wouldn't be surprised if it was some pussy-whipped male mod doing it for a girl he's got a thing for because he's a straight up led male. Must be one if he wants to work for this ridiculous regime.

The old org was a vibrant place full of creative people, and the imposition of the fearful new rules drove quite a few of them away. I was one of them. I come back and see nothing but old men who are grasping to define something they aren't fluent in. I come back and see circlejerking of proportions larger in girth and length than anything I was ever witness to before my absence. I come back to see a cliquishness I haven't seen since elementary school manifest. I bought into it too, so I'm no better, but I still see there is a problem with the way things are going that poisons this community and prospective new members.

Stop living in fear. Embrace the light of love.

EVOLVE, DAMN YOU, EVOLVE!
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