AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo 4 days left, August 20

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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:38 am

Pwolf wrote:So you're basing your entire argument on someone else opinion?

Nope. My opinion on the integrity of judging is my own. Apparently integrity isn't that common of an attribute.

NS wrote:My last 2 cents on it is actually that People don't have to watch every one, but if they don't watch certain ones, they don't vote in that category...

That'd be a good compromise. And since every video could conceivably be in any category...
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby Nya-chan Production » Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:06 am

Pwolf wrote:I just thought of the perfect example that sums up my idea of what AWA Pro is/was. This will be my last post on the subject, hopefully it makes sense:

So the argument has been made that by entering the contest and signing the waver you are saying "I'm a Judge now, I will be unbiased and watch all the videos..." right? What about audience based judging? By going to the amv contest, you are being volunteered to be a judge. Shouldn't they be held by the same standards we are imposing on AWA Pro participants? We cannot assume they will be unbiased or they will stay throughout the whole contest. We also don't get on the microphone demanding they do then say they are doing the contest a great disservice if they don't judge the way we want them to. To me AWA Pro was about removing the staff and the "less experienced" from the judging pool and only allowing those who entered be the judges. Some contest use the audience, some have a panel, AWA Pro uses it's participants. It consists of AMV Editors who may (or may not...) have a better idea about whats makes up a good video but all the bias and unwillingness to watch a video is still there.

1) You usually have more than 60 watchers, so some may afford to not vote
2) They usually stay the whole time, and even when not, you can't afford to lock them up (fire hazard rules etc)
3) They don't sign anything in the first place, we do

That said, I am not against any side, in the end it's just like Moonie said - I'll just vote somehow, right? :<
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby ngsilver » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:09 am

You know, discussion is how change comes about. Perhaps at this juncture change is what may be needed. Perhaps it has come to the point where the majority may feel that there should be a separate contest for adult videos. If that is the case, and in the future that is what happens I will be fine with that. I'd much rather have a format where entrants could feel that their videos are being judged fairly, because at this point I don't feel that is the case.

I said it on my podcast, I do understand some people don't like all content. Heck, my fiancee loaths all forms of pr0n and I would never force her to come out of her comfort zone, which is why I don't show her my adult videos. But I also would discourage her at this juncture to enter Pro because of the kinds of content that is allowed in the contest.

All I can do is advocate, I can't force anyone to do what I'm asking, and neither can the coordinators. However I feel very similarly about the judging situation as Bashar does. It kind of pains me to see that others don't hold the same amount of integrity about their judging stance as I do. I know I have bias and there is no way for me to truly not have any, but I do my best to be as fair as I can be to every video. As a judge I feel it is my duty to watch and judge all videos in the contest. It's the same standard I hold for the judges on the panels for contests that I run. As for attendee voting, I throw away any ballot that isn't fully filled out.

If this discussion has turned people off of this contest then I'm sorry to see you go. But perhaps that is for the best, for you and for this contest. Who knows. But this discussion is something that needed to be aired. If it didn't then no one would have continued it this long.

But I'm all for compromise, and it seems right now the consensus is get on with judging the contest however you choose to judge. So that's what I'll do. I'll post my comments on each video once I get the chance to sit down and give them all a good viewing.
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby BurningLeaves » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:20 am

Pwolf wrote:If my video doesn't immediately grab the attention of someone and they decide to skip the rest of it, that's my fault and that's a risk I've accepted.

While I think it is ideal to watch each video in it's entirety while judging my qualm is more for those who simply noticed the 'L' and 'H' prefixes and skipped them all together. If you start watching and something appears that is too shocking or uncomfortable for you at least you tried and gave the video a shot before voting against it, the way it seems though is people just saw a certain subject matter and dismissed it completely without even bothering to play them. If you were an IC judge and only watched video A before declaring it the winner when there was nothing technically wrong with video B as it had followed all the rules the judges had agreed upon before deciding to judge in the first place it would be completely wrong to be biased.

I'm not trying to say people don't do it, or people shouldn't think that some may pass on it. It's not awa's fault nor that of any other convention that uses audience voting, but I disagree with the mentality that it is acceptable to do when acting as a judge. Does it happen? Yes. Should it happen? No. Yet people keep using the fact that it does happen to justify that it is acceptable.

If awa would like to change it's rules to exclude adult content than that is it's choice but as it is now it does accept such content and if you are unwilling to attempt to judge the contest to the best of your ability in it's entirety you should skip judging all together. This being a contest where all the entries are lumped in together you can't pick the best from the group when you have not seen the whole group. Just because it does happen doesn't mean it should, or that people should be trying to justify biased judging just because it happens.

Vlad wrote:Actually, I starting to really not like Pro... It' s just not fun anymore bacuse of this thread

I plan on this being my last post on the subject myself but I actually couldn't disagree with you more. I thought the past few pages were a decent, well mannered debate about the subject for the most part. I actually find it really nice to see that not just on the internet, but even on the org people are still able to talk with intelligence and tact while debating opposite sites of an argument instead of it boiling down to. "No your mother can go screw herself!". And possibly since Kholoras posted earlier about sharing this thread with the other awa coordinators something can be imposed, be it separating the adult content to it's own contest or someones above suggestion of a signed specifically stated requirement for the judges to watch all the entries that will help to clear this problem up in the future and make mostly every body happy.
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby SailorDeath » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:16 am

Radical_Yue wrote:"Ahaha, well too bad Jimmy! Even though this is a competition about a fun hobby, we're going to say FUCK YOU AND YOUR FREEDOM OF CHOICE AND FREE WILL. YOU'RE GOING TO EAT IT AND THEN MY GOAT IS GOING TO FUCK YOU!"


Seems a tiny bit contradictory pullting human rights card, it can be argued that hentai amv creators can claim freedom of expression.
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby SailorDeath » Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:05 pm

I'm tired arguing about this, seems both sides of the argument can agree to disagree so here's the last thing I'm going to say about this:

We like to use the comment about how AWA Pro is like the academy awards of amvs in that it's all peer reviewed. Many of you argue that you shouldn't have to watch a video you don't like because it makes you uncomfortable/not your cup of tea/aliens will raep me if I see animated penises/etc....

If you don't want to watch the amvs, nobody in the world is going to force you. Even if they put a rule in stating you have to judge all entries equally, people are still going to skip videos and blindly nominate videos. But to just casually announce it on the forums is like spitting in those creators faces and telling them their entries will never be as good as the non-hentai ones. That is unless they use nudity in an artistic way like perfect blue. Additionally, People in this thread are talking like hentai is its own category. But I must remind you IT IS NOT. Any of those hentai amvs could be nominated for ANY of the categories present in the contest. And if, oh lets say one of those videos gets nominated for best romance will you watch it before voting on it? No of course you won't. But I bet you'll still vote in the category regardless. That is where integrity as a judge comes in.

So, how can I prove my point. Well I honestly can say that I am going to nominate the world's second worst lip sync for best of show. (That's video #60 for all you folks) Whether it makes it to final voting or not remains to be seen. But still, if a person was going to be a judge, they need to be impartial and give each entry equal treatment. They would give each and every single entry in the contest the same level of attention just as I did when I watched YOUR VIDEOS over the course of a couple days. I will be watching each and every one of them AGAIN when final voting comes around so I know why I liked each video, and which videos I think deserve an award.

You know, the x-rated film Midnight Cowboy won best picture, best director and best adapted screenplay. It was a controversial because many people thought an x-rated film should never be considered for an oscar. But the motion picture academy thought differently and remained unbiased and impartial.
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby The Wired Knight » Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:09 pm

I'll be honest, I enter Pro every year FULLY AWARE that I will likely see one or two hentai videos either tasteless or not. But I consider the fact that I am judging this contest to create an obligation to watch everything so it can all be given a fair chance. Also I find it virtually imposible to dismiss a video by the mere nature of its source, hell last year I really liked the Song of the Count video, it was clever and actually used hentai well and that's including all the sex it showed.

Here's the conundrum though IMO, I am fully aware that some people just hate hentai and can't stand watching it - frankly if that's your mindset I doubt watching any hentai video is going to change your mind and will not likelyh recieve a nomination into any catagory regardless. There are two problems with this though - one is what SailorDeath allready stated ahead of me and that is if one of the videos is actually nominated in a catagory and you do not awtch it then the vote is too skewed and it was unfair to the editor who put the time into that video and made it far enough into the final process. Secondly is that without giving the video a fair chance based on content you have no idea what it is really like, I have seen videos that use hentai as a source but do not once use graphical sex or anything, if you weren't aware of the show you probably wouldn't even know it was hentai. These videos are also being unfairly prejudiced in Pro because of that.

I may not like watching graphic sex videos but I do anyway each year because I feel it just comes with entering and judging pro.

That said, I will admit I did not watch video sixty because this is just trolling the competition in the same way he did about three or four years ago.
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby The Wired Knight » Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:12 pm

Vlad G Pohnert wrote:Actually, I starting to really not like Pro... It' s just not fun anymore bacuse of this thread :(

Vlad


Actually it's for that reason I hardly read the Pro discussions in any year. As Godix put it, it's a dead horse that just keeps getting beaten. Almost every year there are two debates I hear for Pro

1. Flack about the hentai videos
2. Pro wasn't as good as previous years

It's old really and doesn't require discussion so I do my best to ignore it (I know that's somewhat hypocritical to say that following my above post).
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby CodeZTM » Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:16 pm

That's not necessarily true, TWR. I absolutely get disgusted by hentai videos, and absolutely hate watching them and I nominated one of them into comedy.

Same with you Sailor Death. I am utterly disgusted and grossed out by 98% of hentai videos, and this will probably never change. But I can recognize good editing when I see it. That being said, only one or two of the hentai videos in this contest were even remotely any good. Both in concept and in editing.

I think ya'll are just a tad pessimistic towards the community and editors in general. :lol:
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby SailorDeath » Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:26 pm

CodeZTM wrote:I think ya'll are just a tad pessimistic towards the community and editors in general. :lol:



Haven't you heard? We're all a bunch of elitist a-holes that like flogging dead horses until they're horse burger.
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby Pwolf » Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:41 pm

SailorDeath wrote:
CodeZTM wrote:I think ya'll are just a tad pessimistic towards the community and editors in general. :lol:



Haven't you heard? We're all a bunch of elitist a-holes that like flogging dead horses until they're horse burger.


mmmm horse burger :Q
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby CodeZTM » Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:50 pm

SailorDeath wrote:
CodeZTM wrote:I think ya'll are just a tad pessimistic towards the community and editors in general. :lol:



Haven't you heard? We're all a bunch of elitist a-holes that like flogging dead horses until they're horse burger.


LEH GASP? WHO SAYS SUCH VULGAR LIES!

Spoiler :
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby ngsilver » Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:01 pm

Pwolf wrote:mmmm horse burger :Q

x2 |:>
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby kholaras » Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:40 pm

<pedantic>The Song of the Count was in 2008</pedantic>
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Re: AWA 2010 - Pro downloads active; Expo deadline August 20

Postby Brakus » Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:25 pm

On a much lighter note, there was a shoe convention at the Cobb Galleria Center this weekend. That's right, a SHOE convention. I was tempted to go to a booth and go, "These shoes rule. These shoes suck. These shoes rule, these shoes SUCK!"

AWA seems to be looking good this year despite the Pro drama that exploded over the weekend.... more thoughts on the entries later when I have more time.
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