TheAX AMV Contest 2009 Finalists are...

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Re: TheAX AMV Contest 2009 Finalists are...

Postby Manganate » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:46 am

Pwolf wrote:Nio: Calm down dude...

milkmandan wrote:If i were you, i'd download some of these videos and watch em yourself before reading into it :\ especially taking the view points of the critiques on this forum, some may be skewed. judge it for yourself


True, I probably should download the finalist and see for myself, but I do give some weight to certain people's opinions so I feel like it would be a waste of time >.>


Pwolf

Which is fine for you. I however, never let anyone make my decisions for me, no matter how much I trust or know them.

If you want to judge the videos based on the opinions of one poster who basically trashed the whole contest without rationalization that's your prerogative.

If you have preconceptions about the videos that do make it in based on your own personal stance towards the contest as a whole that's a personal issue as well.

Nobody is without bias and to suggest that anyone is objective is arrogant self-deceit.

I have no problems with any of that, my point from the beginning has been, don't throw you weight around on the forum like you're supposed to be somebody and basically cuss out the entire body of videos. And especially don't do that if you're not going to backup or rationalize what you're saying. Radical_Yue doesn't seem like an unintelligent person, I'm sure if she tried she could've explained her stance much better. She didn't and I called her out on it. Not the end of the world. She herself even admitted to being prepared to receive attacks for disliking certain videos. I guess she wasn't expecting someone to agree with her on alot of her points but call her out for being a bitch.
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Re: TheAX AMV Contest 2009 Finalists are...

Postby XStylus » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:51 am

Pwolf wrote:Yes, true, but we are talking about multiple videos with problems and a general consensus that the majority of the videos sucked. Unless every video entered into the contest was horrible, i doubt that's a valid excuse. Don't get me wrong, I agree with what you are saying, I just have a hard time believing this is the case


Disclaimer: The following my opinions are my own and are not reflective of the opinions of the official AMV coordinators.

The following info wasn't to be disclosed out of respect to those who entered AMTV, but I think it's become necessary in order to drive an important point.

AMTV had a grand total of 8 submissions.

Yeah, you heard me. That means almost every vid submitted got in. In fact, it almost was every vid, but the judges felt one vid from action was deserving of AMTV status, so it got moved.

The truly sad irony is that this is the category with insanely strict judging. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean shit if you don't have enough vids to make it competitive. It also quite obviously means that it doesn't matter if the panel of judges were a group of veteran AMV creators or a group of chimps.

Now that's not to say the vids that made it into the contest were crap by ANY means (many of those vids would have easily been forces to be reckoned with in other categories), but I'm sure those entrants would have been more satisfied with their participation if it had been more clearly competitive.

Comedy was also shallow as well, but not remotely as shallow as AMTV. We didn't exactly have the luxury of being picky. Thankfully though, the few that were submitted were very good. Comedy is hard to do and is traditionally a low yield category, but that just means that there's a decent chance for those brave enough to at least try. SO TRY!

Bottom line, where ya'll at? Where's all these killer submissions I hear being entered at AWA, Otakon, and elsewhere? The contest is running nearly trouble free now, so what more must be done? (Methinks the "troll" rules of other cons play a part, but not this much.)

I recommend that the lot of you stop complaining and start editing. Us judges aren't idiots, and we know a well made vid when we see it. What you saw was the best we got. If you're unhappy with it, then you're unhappy with yourselves.

As Steve Jobs says, "Real artists ship." Kudos to the artists who did, and a pox on those who are complaining.
Last edited by XStylus on Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:13 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: TheAX AMV Contest 2009 Finalists are...

Postby The Wired Knight » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:51 am

Damn, half a day and suddenly this thread jumps 4 pages. It's hard to follow what the hell happened since I'm checking this close to 1 am.

I agree that AX's contest has been lacking as a whole in the last few years compared to other cons. Frankly speaking I think it's because far too many editors gave up on AX after teh 2002 and the 2007 fiasco (07 was LB I think). AX is huge, it still gets a lot of entries to my understanding but now the regulars don't enter as much save for a lot of locals and the devoted. I consider myself in both those catagories and will continue to submit to aX. That said I don't think the contest holds the prestige it once did because the overall quality of videos has suffered over the years.

I regularly play a ton of AMVs at a new years party my friends have every year. Generally it's a compillation of videos from cons around the year except AX. (No bias, I just don't play AX videos because we all live in southern california and most of us go to AX and hence have allready seen those videos). Each year I get the same response from everyone and that is that they are wondering why AX doesn't get the same variety and quality of entries year after year. Is this a difference in taste? Probably not, but I do think it is a difference in the level and amount of competition. There will always be AMVs we all consider crap, I'm not going to name any but it's true, every contest you go to you will almost always inevitably find something you dislike and wonder how it got where it did.

That said, AX seems to suffer from this problem as a whole year after year. Those of us that regularly enter, honestly we can't do a damn thing about it, we enter each year and stuff gets selected, but I don't like seeing other editors rag on AX for quality and voting concerns when the smalll competitive pool means less chances of good videos making it in.

frankly speaking, the audience is the same everywhere. f you were to let teh audience judge AWA Pro for example you probably would get radically different results than we do. Hell, look at you-tube. Outside of being flooded with thousands of terrible AMVs, you will notice 90% of them actually recieve incredible reviews, audiences are eaisly pleased by simple things, not just in terms of AMVs but all media. Often it is easy to look past flaws in AMVs if you are a lay person who has not edited or seen many others as you are unaware of some of the easily fixed technical difficulties and can be dumbfounded by certain effects you cannot pull off yourself.

Hell, when I first started making AMVs back in 98 I remember actually being impressed by stupid beat matching. And that's one of the easiest things to do. (Course then again I was starting on two vcrs so bit different technically). We are dealing with two problems for AX, very small competitive pool and easily impressed audiences that like fanservice (of all kinds). The later cannot be fixed, you aren't going to be able to take the audience and tell hem how to vote( nor would i relaly want you to). However, inc ases like Death Note Raphsody, I think the judges that are deciding the finalists really should take the typical audience more into account when picking finalists as they are relatively predictable.
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Re: TheAX AMV Contest 2009 Finalists are...

Postby MisterFurious » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:02 am

xstylus wrote:AMTV had a grand total of 8 submissions.


I hope this will finally put things in perspective, and quiet some of the bitching about quality. It's unfortunate you had to reveal such privileged information, especially since those creators who were in Pro may now not feel so good about making it into the finals.

That being said, if you only got 8 entries for 7 slots, is it worth it to keep the category going?
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Re: TheAX AMV Contest 2009 Finalists are...

Postby XStylus » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:06 am

MisterFurious wrote:
xstylus wrote:AMTV had a grand total of 8 submissions.


That being said, if you only got 8 entries for 7 slots, is it worth it to keep the category going?


That's a decision Michael will have to make. I loved the idea of the category personally, as I love trance-like vids like Euphoria and practically anything Nostromo made, which is kinda-sorta the inspiration for the category IIRC. However, people obviously haven't stepped up, which is sad.
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Re: TheAX AMV Contest 2009 Finalists are...

Postby Minimoto » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:07 am

MisterFurious wrote:
xstylus wrote:AMTV had a grand total of 8 submissions.


I hope this will finally put things in perspective, and quiet some of the bitching about quality. It's unfortunate you had to reveal such privileged information, especially since those creators who were in Pro may now not feel so good about making it into the finals.

That being said, if you only got 8 entries for 7 slots, is it worth it to keep the category going?

Well maybe more ppl will step up to the plate with this new revelation.
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Re: TheAX AMV Contest 2009 Finalists are...

Postby Ryvannis » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:08 am

MisterFurious wrote:
xstylus wrote:AMTV had a grand total of 8 submissions.


I hope this will finally put things in perspective, and quiet some of the bitching about quality. It's unfortunate you had to reveal such privileged information, especially since those creators who were in Pro may now not feel so good about making it into the finals.

That being said, if you only got 8 entries for 7 slots, is it worth it to keep the category going?


This really saddens me to be honest, I thought there was actual competition to get into the category and knowing this now just gives puts my efforts down the drain. I probably could have half-assed my AMV and it would have got in anyways. So much for that.
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Re: TheAX AMV Contest 2009 Finalists are...

Postby MisterFurious » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:17 am

Someday Soon wrote:Well maybe more ppl will step up to the plate with this new revelation.


Unfortunately, the reality is that this revelation probably means more people will enter Pro next year, thinking their chances are better of making the finals.
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Re: TheAX AMV Contest 2009 Finalists are...

Postby Minimoto » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:20 am

MisterFurious wrote:
Someday Soon wrote:Well maybe more ppl will step up to the plate with this new revelation.


Unfortunately, the reality is that this revelation probably means more people will enter Pro next year, thinking their chances are better of making the finals.

Well, more to choose from? Even with this knowledge, I know I still don't have the confidence to enter anything but drama.
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Re: TheAX AMV Contest 2009 Finalists are...

Postby XStylus » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:27 am

MisterFurious wrote:
Someday Soon wrote:Well maybe more ppl will step up to the plate with this new revelation.


Unfortunately, the reality is that this revelation probably means more people will enter Pro next year, thinking their chances are better of making the finals.


I agree. I do have some ideas on how to resolve the problem that I want to sit down with Michael and talk about, but I don't think AMTV can thrive as a standard seven vid category.
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Re: TheAX AMV Contest 2009 Finalists are...

Postby Radical_Yue » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:30 am

Quick question with all the previous bitching aside.

With the small amount of entries why did Castor Troy's DBZ video get cut and Haragen Viper's "Digital Phenomenon" videos get cut?

I'd really like to know considering Castor's DBZ video is incredibly well done even though it has an overused source and while Digital Phenomenon does have a few technical issues such as bad ARs and the like, (it's not like that stopped other entries from getting in) it's still a solid video and about 200% better than half the other entries.


So yeah, any reason some videos were cut and others were let in? Or are things a tad bit on the biased side when it comes to the video judging?
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Re: TheAX AMV Contest 2009 Finalists are...

Postby XStylus » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:44 am

Radical_Yue wrote:Quick question with all the previous bitching aside.

With the small amount of entries why did Castor Troy's DBZ video get cut and Haragen Viper's "Digital Phenomenon" videos get cut?

I'd really like to know considering Castor's DBZ video is incredibly well done even though it has an overused source and while Digital Phenomenon does have a few technical issues such as bad ARs and the like, (it's not like that stopped other entries from getting in) it's still a solid video and about 200% better than half the other entries.

So yeah, any reason some videos were cut and others were let in? Or are things a tad bit on the biased side when it comes to the video judging?


What category were they in? Action? That category and drama got the overwhelming lion's share of vids, so there was no shortage in those categories. In those cases, it simply comes down to numbers. As was explained in previous posts, vids are graded on a 1 to 5 point scale in the categories of "Fun", "Concept", and "Technical", plus an optional bonus point if the vid inspired a desire to watch/rewatch the anime. A video with bad aspect ratios will get trashed in technical, even if it was the most epic vid ever made. If the flaw is distracting enough, it'd conceivably affect the "Fun" score too. As for Castor's DBZ vid, again, it comes down to numbers. He might've fallen just short of the cut. Also, the panel of judges is quite large enough to mitigate any particular judge's bias, if any.
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Re: TheAX AMV Contest 2009 Finalists are...

Postby Kratza » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:01 am

xstylus wrote:
MisterFurious wrote:
xstylus wrote:AMTV had a grand total of 8 submissions.


That being said, if you only got 8 entries for 7 slots, is it worth it to keep the category going?


That's a decision Michael will have to make. I loved the idea of the category personally, as I love trance-like vids like Euphoria and practically anything Nostromo made, which is kinda-sorta the inspiration for the category IIRC. However, people obviously haven't stepped up, which is sad.


Walking to the parking garage with a friend following the contest, I questioned myself as to whether or not my AMV would've been a finalist had it been submitted under the "AMTV" category, but the characteristics and other qualities commonly associated with AMTV (dance/electronica music; heavy usage of visual effects, multiple anime series/compilations) kept me from going with this back when I sent in the entry...Instead, I classified my AMV as an "Action" Vid. It was edited entirely in After Effects and included a lot of subtle and time-consuming work, but it still didn't have the look of your typical AMTV entry.

From a technical standpoint, its feats were also flaws (when compared to something taken from a DVD source), since I was scaling 256x384 native footage to 640x960 before cropping...As a result, it looked rough around the edges in parts. That's what happens when you attempt to be the first (I think) to make a competitive AMV out of a DS game.

I was hoping it could've been screened during the pre-show (all I honestly cared about was exposing the game, The World Ends With You, to more people), but what's done is done...I'm already hard at work on some videos for next year, and fully intend to help "raise the bar" with the rest of you.
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Re: TheAX AMV Contest 2009 Finalists are...

Postby Radical_Yue » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:28 am

xstylus wrote:
Radical_Yue wrote:Quick question with all the previous bitching aside.

With the small amount of entries why did Castor Troy's DBZ video get cut and Haragen Viper's "Digital Phenomenon" videos get cut?

I'd really like to know considering Castor's DBZ video is incredibly well done even though it has an overused source and while Digital Phenomenon does have a few technical issues such as bad ARs and the like, (it's not like that stopped other entries from getting in) it's still a solid video and about 200% better than half the other entries.

So yeah, any reason some videos were cut and others were let in? Or are things a tad bit on the biased side when it comes to the video judging?


What category were they in? Action? That category and drama got the overwhelming lion's share of vids, so there was no shortage in those categories. In those cases, it simply comes down to numbers. As was explained in previous posts, vids are graded on a 1 to 5 point scale in the categories of "Fun", "Concept", and "Technical", plus an optional bonus point if the vid inspired a desire to watch/rewatch the anime. A video with bad aspect ratios will get trashed in technical, no matter how good it is. If the flaw is distracting enough, it'd conceivably affect the "Fun" score too. As for Castor's DBZ vid, again, it comes down to numbers. He might've fallen just short of the cut. Also, the panel of judges is also quite large enough to mitigate any particular judge's bias, if any.



That told me...nothing :/

These are two videos that didn't have any technical flaws with the exception of a couple bad ARs that were in Haragen's...and Haragen entered into pro...and considering how many entries there were...how the fuck did he get cut when his entry was amazing compared to some of the others? I mean really?

Even if it comes down to numbers, I don't see why two well edited videos would get cut :/
The only thing I can see is a bias towards the sources which were used, Dragon Ball Z and Digimon. Other than that, they were fun videos, the concept was solid and I refuse to repeat the tech side again in this post.

I've been told several times I may seem arrogant while posting about all this, but please just understand, I'm very passionate about AMVs and I honestly believe a contest this large with so many attendees deserves a good showing. I just don't understand why some of the better videos are being cut and not given any specific reasons.
Hell, if anything, do me a personal favor, any way you can tell me why just these two videos got cut? It can't be that hard :/
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Re: TheAX AMV Contest 2009 Finalists are...

Postby outlawed » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:44 am

I love AX. No matter how many editors get mad and try to make the community give up on it or make it irrelevant it always offers the best post-con entertainment.

Rest assured I have read most of this thread and will probably post quite a few thoughts and suggestions that may help all parties involved. That said guys... How could they NOT put Death Note Rhapsody in that category. Just look how much AX drama is unfolding as a result !!

Aspect Ration errors: If the entry is using mixed sources and doesn't handle them properly than that is the fault of the editor. If the entry was played back wrong that is the fault of the AX AMV staff. There are two ways to handle that type of issue. Either convert or DQ the video if the editor messed it up. Those of you who have dealt with me for ACen know my solution. No mercy! If I say 48 kHz audio and you send me 44.1 then I WILL DQ you unless you fix it. Keep in mind that also makes some people mad. One of the reasons I'm hardcore about formatting with the entrants is because down the assembly line it makes things much easier on us for converting and displaying entries. Other contests that do not have such restrictive formatting requirements make things easier on the submitter but sometimes unavoidable issues which cannot be resolved might crop up. I doubt AX AMV staff have as much control over the display options I have at ACen (it being a much smaller room we use and the convention as a whole). Just make certain if you blame editors for aspect ratio issues that the problem was actually on their end and NOT on the part of AX AMV staff. Until staff chimes in I wouldn't hold the editor accountable.

Now if you are talking about 4:3 sources mixed with 16:9 squished sources in the same AMV then by all means flame away.


Pwolf,

I'm going to guess one of the continuing factors on the "decisions" from recent years was the "Wedding Rings is not an AMV" fiasco?
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