AnimeUSA: Winners determined by judges or the audience?

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AnimeUSA: Winners determined by judges or the audience?

Postby VicBond007 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:22 pm

Like the title says, I'm thinking about going back to an audience-based voting system this year for AnimeUSA 2008 since I'm free of the FAIL that is Ohayocon. In the past we let judges pick the winners so that we could mix things up and not have Ohayocon's winners simply end up being everyone who took second place at AnimeUSA.

How do the attendees/creators feel about an audience vote? Did we do the right thing by letting a select few give awards to AMVs that may not have been major crowd pleasers, or were we letting down the audience by not awarding the fan-favorites?
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Postby LantisEscudo » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:56 pm

I like a twin system like Anime Boston uses. Audience vote determines the category winners and the Best in Show, a judging panel chooses Best Editing, Best Concept, and Judge's Choice awards.

Both major viewpoints are covered that way.
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Postby Rider4Z » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:12 pm

LantisEscudo wrote:I like a twin system like Anime Boston uses. Audience vote determines the category winners and the Best in Show, a judging panel chooses Best Editing, Best Concept, and Judge's Choice awards.

Both major viewpoints are covered that way.

x2
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Postby XiaoMovieMaker » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:12 pm

I like a twin system like Anime Boston uses. Audience vote determines the category winners and the Best in Show, a judging panel chooses Best Editing, Best Concept, and Judge's Choice awards.

Both major viewpoints are covered that way.


I agree
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Postby JaddziaDax » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:24 pm

truthfully to me i kinda like the cons that do a bit of both, however i usually enter cons just to get my video shown and i try not to worry about awards so much..
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Postby Brad » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:31 pm

One thing I've always been curious to see happen is a weighted average between audience and judge voting.

Lets say you have 5 pre-selected judges, and 500 audience members. Basically each judge vote would count for 100 audience votes. It'd involve a bit of math and more careful calculation, but I think the results would be interesting.
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Postby Rider4Z » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:49 pm

Brad wrote:One thing I've always been curious to see happen is a weighted average between audience and judge voting.

Lets say you have 5 pre-selected judges, and 500 audience members. Basically each judge vote would count for 100 audience votes. It'd involve a bit of math and more careful calculation, but I think the results would be interesting.

meaning they're likely to not match up
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Postby Vlad G Pohnert » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:35 pm

To be honest, unless you handpick the judges and are people totaly free of the contest and both cons have different ones, then audiance is proably just as good over a room ful of creators judging...

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Re: AnimeUSA: Winners determined by judges or the audience?

Postby NightMistress85 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:01 pm

Another vote here for mixing it up. The only con I've attended like that is Katsucon. I like to know that I can cast my ballot as a viewer, but at the same time it's cool to see judges award videos with other qualities that the audience as a whole may overlook. I didn't notice an overwhelming overlap between audience votes and judges' picks (though I don't have too many instance to go by). Besides, that's more encouraging for editors anyway to know it's possible for their work to be appreciated from multiple ends of the spectrum.
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Postby dwchang » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:26 pm

Brad wrote:One thing I've always been curious to see happen is a weighted average between audience and judge voting.

Lets say you have 5 pre-selected judges, and 500 audience members. Basically each judge vote would count for 100 audience votes. It'd involve a bit of math and more careful calculation, but I think the results would be interesting.


I don't like the idea since the idea that judges are equal to 100 audience members is a bit degrading of audience members. Then again, I agree they are more knowledgeable and technically you don't need to tell the audience members their votes are worth less, but it still kinda irks me.

Personally I like how Vlad does it (and the first suggestion) where you have a mix of both. Everyone knows audiences will vote for comedy of upbeat videos (regardless of category) and how it irks AMV creators about the 'legitimacy' of awards, but having those as 'Audience Favorite" and so on still gives them their vote while allowing judges to select other categories based on the 'correct' criteria and not just 'OMG YAY' (which is a legitimate criteria for an audience member).

It's like a best of both worlds scenario.
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Postby Brad » Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:11 am

I realize that doing my idea does set a certain "weight of importance" on the judges, but don't we do that already when we're talking about judge-exclusive contests? I mean basically, it's always been one or the other for individual awards (I realize there are contests that have judge awards and audience awards and I'm all for that). So for the awards where it's just pre-selected judges, we're already giving them that voting weight. I'm just saying, why not try to combine the two different aspects to see what kind of results you get. You'd be melding the opinions of more experienced judges with the general audience vote to come up with a (hopefully) more well-rounded pick. I just think it'd be interesting to try.
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Postby Vlad G Pohnert » Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:49 am

Brad wrote:I realize that doing my idea does set a certain "weight of importance" on the judges, but don't we do that already when we're talking about judge-exclusive contests? I mean basically, it's always been one or the other for individual awards (I realize there are contests that have judge awards and audience awards and I'm all for that). So for the awards where it's just pre-selected judges, we're already giving them that voting weight. I'm just saying, why not try to combine the two different aspects to see what kind of results you get. You'd be melding the opinions of more experienced judges with the general audience vote to come up with a (hopefully) more well-rounded pick. I just think it'd be interesting to try.


Sure.. Make Vic perform the experiment.. If it does not work I'll know not to use it for the contests I run :P
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Postby dwchang » Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:57 am

Brad wrote:I realize that doing my idea does set a certain "weight of importance" on the judges, but don't we do that already when we're talking about judge-exclusive contests? I mean basically, it's always been one or the other for individual awards (I realize there are contests that have judge awards and audience awards and I'm all for that). So for the awards where it's just pre-selected judges, we're already giving them that voting weight. I'm just saying, why not try to combine the two different aspects to see what kind of results you get. You'd be melding the opinions of more experienced judges with the general audience vote to come up with a (hopefully) more well-rounded pick. I just think it'd be interesting to try.


Well this is me just theory-crafting, but I've rarely seen a video win by a margin larger than a few hundred votes so theoretically after just that a few judges voting will be enough to pick the 'real winner.' In essence, the audience's vote still didn't matter.

Take this for an example:
500 total votes (I'd say that's a reasonable mid-level contest)
5 judge votes worth 500 votes.

Video A: 120
Video B: 80
Video C 200
Video D: 20
Video E: 80

Theoretically if just two or three judges voted for Video D or another video that's pretty far down in audience tally to win.

I guess what I'm saying is although you're 'averaging it out,' you're still giving heavier precedence to judges and from a mathematical standpoint, you still effectively make the audience vote meaningless. In fact, in some cases, we shouldn't even have to count them since the Judges can overrule any total by the audience. Frankly I've seen that happen at places (including ACen) and it's a bit disconcerting.

Again I realize I'm just theory-crafting, but to me it shows an inherent problem of fairness in the system. Then again, a lot of the times I disagree with the audience, but to a larger degree the convention itself is for fans and the contest is to show them things (even if we submit) so I just don't like the idea of devaluing their opinion.

Like I said, I like Vlad's solution of letting both sides have something (i.e. ownership). People like ownership and feeling like they made a difference.
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Postby Koopiskeva » Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:10 am

How about, having the editors go up on stage for a deathmatch. |: ?
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Postby Miracle_Falcon » Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:40 am

I dunno, I liked the judge voting last year. Though I guess I'd be interested to see if the judge votes were actually pretty much equivalent to or totally different from the audience votes... I'd like to suggest an audience winner and a judge winner in each category, but I think that'd lead to too many repeats. So that's not really a good idea...

Meh, don't mind me, I'm just rambling. For the record, my vote is that I like it as is, but that's just me.
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