Fanime Contest Results

This forum is for the announcement and discussion of anime music video contests.

Postby Vlad G Pohnert » Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:27 pm

TaranT wrote:In fact, controversy seems to be attached to all the West Coast AMV contests. Except Anime Evolution, but there's time for that one. :wink:



As long as I'm running things at AE hopefully there should be none... :wink:

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Postby wwf_htm » Wed Jun 02, 2004 8:15 pm

Starherd wrote:Your analogy of the Oscars Vs. the MTV movie awards is fairly accurate - in the Oscars, you get movies, acting, etc. voted on by the Academy, who tend to pat the backs of other Academy members an awful lot, whereas with the MTV awards, you get what the populace actually votes on. (Note that I am generally unsatisfied with the Oscars, not because they don't choose to vote upon the popular/money-making films, but because they tend to ignore the merit of independant, foreign, and genre films, relegating them to minor categories. This has improved with recent years - ten years ago, Johnny Depp's performance in Pirates of the Carribiean would've been ignored entirely.)


i went to both showings at fanime last year and i felt that several of the videos that did not make the finals were a lot better than some of the ones that actually made it. i know that it is just my opinion but it stands to argue that if the judges' picks were totally different from the viewer's picks (as in this years contest), then their choices for finals entries would most likely be very different from what the viewers would have picked. in effect, even though there is are viewer's choice awards, the selections are already tainted because of the judges' preferences.

my solution - show the non-finalist videos before the finals. they can be shown in the morning or the day before. then allow the viewers to vote for the ones they liked and then give the winners wildcard slots. 2 wildcard slots per category should be enough. if time is a problem then they can just show the first 2-3 minutes of each video. that should be enough time to tell whether or not a video is at least decent. voting should be done after each category is shown.

this is the only way i can think of that would make it so that the finals are made up of the most deserving videos.


anneke wrote:First... ErMac's video. Sorry it was a piece of CRAP! [MOD843: Watch it :roll: ]This was pointed out to me by many many many many strangers at the convention. I asked very casually, what they thought of the video, and was told EVERY TIME they wondered what the judges had been smoking. Sorry but the video was a few clips of Fushigi Yugi pasted ontop of winAmp screen saver effects. And the drawings... They were causing an artist friend of mine to cringe in pain at the bad preportions. Oh and the AMV creators I sat by, cringed at the points of the video where the timing was OFF. So please don't believe that it was some great video. (One answer I could come up with to why his video got not only best freeform and best of show from the judges was that some how they had more knowledge of the construction of the video...)


it could also be some of that back patting that starherd was talking about. i am not saying that ermac went to the judges and asked for some bonus points. maybe they subconsciously gave him more points because the name "ermac" screams quality. :wink:

anneke wrote:Second... Mindwarp's United States of Whatever! Oh my! That was shown at the Semi-finals. It some how didn't make the finals. The reaction it got at the semi-finals was amazing. If it was in the finals it could have won the comedy category, based on the reaction it got from the semi final audience (they almost gave it a standing ovation). It could have easily beaten half the videos in the comedy category, so why the heck wasn't it in the finals? Alot of people were wondering this.


if my solution is implemented and if that video is as good as you say, then this kind of travesty wouldn't happen. :)

ErMaC wrote:
Pwolf wrote:Judges Best of Show: Extraordinary World


Directed to all those folks *cough*cataclysm*cough* who thought I was all washed up and couldn't make a decent video anymore...

EAT ME


i think that you should wait until you win a viewer's choice award before you can claim that you aren't "washed up" anymore. from what i've been reading and from what several of my friends have told me, the judge's decisions were pretty shady. the votes of a bunch of normals could possibly be off, but i'd say that their opinions hold more weight than that of 5 or 6 (or however many there were) judges.
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Postby scottanime » Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:10 pm

OK after takeing a few days off from con stuff, I'll try to lay to rest a few issues that happened at Fanime and try to resolve a few issues that have come up since.

First off I would like to again thank all of the AMV editors who had contributed their videos to our event, you are the people that truely make this event a pleaseure to work on and show to the fans and we are always in your debt for that.

The story of problems with AMV this year starts with a few background facts that need to be addresed first as they add to the problems.

1. We were in a new facility this year, no it doesnt mean that we had to learn how a projector worked all over again and its not an excuse that we couldnt do our jobs. But what was at issue was that we had to deal with new facility staff that we had never met before. For the past several years we have been at the Santa Clara facility and while rude, unreliable, and hard to communicate with, after a few years we knew how to get around that to get things done on time. Since this was not that case this year, all events in the Civic Auditorium where the AMV events were held all had very large time bumpers at the beginning and end of each event jsut in case there were any unexpected problems.

2. For the first year ever, Fanime had to deal with Union Labor workers to setup and operate all of our technical equipment, from lighting, projectors, and sound. While in the past we have been able to have union as assitance or pay them jsut to stand behind us, this year we HAD to leave most aspects of running our events in their hands. This was another reason for the large time bumpers on each event. in addition to this the union workers were required to have a 1 hour lunch break during the day, this 1 hour could only start after the Civic aud was clear, powered down, and locked up, then the time needed to open up and get thigns back together caused even more time backlog.

so with that here is what I know of problems and hopefully together we can all work on solutions.

Time
Yes I do know that 10am on Saturday SUCKED BALLS for a start tiem for AMV finals. I knew this 4 months before the con, and knew we were goign to have a less than great turnout becasue of it. here is why that happened. Fanime Con's largest single attended event is Cosply. It gets priority in the largest room, and AMV cant be placed anywhere else since the next largest room we had was only 400 seats. So Cosplay gets 7pm Sat with a 6pm start for seating. So Saturday night is out. Due to contractual obligations all of the bands for Music fest can only play on sunday, and they need all day to setup so Sunday is completely gone. Cosplay needs a setup time. (this is where our bumpers first take the first casualty) Cosplay run through usually only takes 2 hours max, but since we were dealing with new union members whoam we didnt knwo how well they could work, was sheduled for abotu 3-4 hours, add in that we needed a 1 hour lunch break a seating, the only time available for anythign on saturday was the 10am-1230pm slot. so the Options for finals was
7pm Friday
10am Saturday
10am Monday
Monday would have sucked more, and since many students were still in school firday I knew that would have been worse. so Saturday was all that was left.

the good news : Since we now know that the union labor we have in the civic center is top notch and we work well with them, the discussion is at this poitn to set AMV finals next year for 2pm-430pm Saturday, yea its 1 year away and anythign can change, but we are aware that it was a bad time and we are workign to make it later in the day next year.

Judges
Yes, several great AMV's were not shown in the Finals, the reason for this was simple, we only had 2 1/2 hours to show 5 hours of great videos. If I had my way I would have added more of them into the finals but a 5 hour finals event would jsut kill an audience. I will stand by all of the judges decisions because even picking winners by the viewers was very tight in all categories. My entire judgeing staff do watch every video that is submitted to us in its entirety, and we rate those videos on sereval different aspects. It is tough on us since we are critizeing other peoples work, to go through houndreds of videos and have to say "only these 7 will be shown" is not as easy as it sounds. Anyone who was in Semi's knows that I was very vocal for one particular video which I wanted in Finals but I was over ruled by the rest of the judges. It happens. I resepect everyones opinion and in some cases agree with you, but in the end the judges made a decision and that is how the contest shaped into. As for the judges awards being different from the viewers choice, well that's the point. the fans see videos and vote for enjoyment, the judeges are looking what we regard to as content, you can agree or disagree with our methods or judgements in awards we present, but if you attend the event, you have the right to vote differently form the judges. Certain things I accept, the fan base of Fanime demigraphic is age 14-23, where the youngest member of the judgeing staff this year was 26. sure that may have somethign to do with it, but in the end, it is the opinion of the judges, that is all.

content
In regards to "cry little Idol" video
Yes this video's creator did ask me if he should submit a censored version and after reviewign the material I said it wasn't nessisary.Part of that desicison is the region at atmosphere that Fanime is in. Had I been runnign the contest with the same pool of videos in a region like say, Utah, I would have DQ'd the video almsot instantly sicne it was appropriate for the region, or a more conservative con which has stricker policeies. however for the past few years fanime has been fairly laxed in this area, ( adult stars in dealers room, hentai and yaoi marathons ) While I keep certain things out of the AMV contest a few things I will allow for creative freedom. The video in question, while shocking, does not cross a legal barrier for PG-13 content. It comes very close, but not over it, another video in semis did the same for language. However I do agree that this needs to be address to the viewing audince and next year during my announcements I will add that this is an unrated event and some sequences may not be appropriate, but I will keep that a rateing system will be in place for submitted videos.

Politics
the term "this contest as become to political" came up and I found this very interesting. Since I am the only one responsible I am curious what is ment by this.
a. exactly how is this contest becomming political?
b. How is this haveing a negative affect on the event?
c. what can be reasonable done to correct this?
I am very open to any ideas to make this event the best it can be, and would love to get some good solid, useable feedback on this.

Panel
Last year we had a hudge SNAFU with AMV panels, so this year I stepped back and let the chips fall where they may. I did ask SPpanda if he would like to get involved in a panel and he was willign to do so and I am greatful for that, but Brad and Justin picked up and secured a solid panel concept early and since it was a panle of some kind and was one less headache I had to personally deal with I let it go. If ANYONE wants to do ANY kind of AMV panel, PLEASE contact the panel dept in Live programming to set up your own panel, the more exposure we can give to AMV by as many different ediotrs as we can, the better AMV will flurish at fanime, please do so ( but please dont insult anyone elses panel, I dont want to have get involved in a cross panel flame war )

Categories
there has also been some talk that some videos shoudl have belonged in other categories. Whiel this arguement has been talked abotu before from other cons here is how we delt with it. On the upload site there was an option to choose which category your video went into, if you didnt choose one, it went into undecided and the judges made that desicion. If all the judeges decided that the video was in the wrong category, it was moved to another, if the judges could decide if it should be moved or not, and if so where, then the desion was left ot where the editor put it in the first place. In the case of "love is a battlefield" and "I am an outsider" thsi was split between the judegs and were left where the editors submitted them.


I still think that this years contest went incredibly well and I thank everyone for your input to help to make this event even better over time, jsut please remeber "constructive" critizium :) jsut saying "this Sucks" doesn't help me to correct problmes later.

Congrats to all of our winners, I am mailing out the awards soon :)
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Postby Vlad G Pohnert » Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:50 pm

scottanime wrote:In the case of "love is a battlefield" and "I am an outsider" thsi was split between the judegs and were left where the editors submitted them.


Honestly Scott, I really had not problem in what catagory my video was.. Yea, thinking about it more it might of been more appropriate in Drama, but I really did not have a problem with it in action and it was what I entered it in...

In all honesty, people get too uptight sometimes about catagoires.. I was just happy that people got to see it :D

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Postby Pwolf » Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:58 pm

Vlad G Pohnert wrote:In all honesty, people get too uptight sometimes about catagoires.. I was just happy that people got to see it :D


well, people get uptight about everything, lol :P anyway, yea... i thought your video would've done better in drama, but i liked it anyway :O plus >.> if it was drama... <.< you might have won >.>


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Postby dokidoki » Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:14 am

scottanime wrote:If all the judeges decided that the video was in the wrong category, it was moved to another, if the judges could decide if it should be moved or not, and if so where, then the desion was left ot where the editor put it in the first place. In the case of "love is a battlefield" and "I am an outsider" thsi was split between the judegs and were left where the editors submitted them.

At least since it was split, someone agreed with me. :)
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Postby TaranT » Thu Jun 03, 2004 2:19 am

dwchang wrote:I agree that honest and constructive criticism has it's place, but saying a video is crap is far from constructive and that is what a few people have said. Those kinds of comments are never necessary and if someone feels the need, they can at least have the courtesy to PM or e-mail the person instead of stating so in a public forum where hundreds will read it.

Also arguing about the resuts and saying someone was robbed just makes someone look to be a sore loser. I realize that 90% of the time that's not the case, but it still looks that way.

Either way, I can see what you mean, but hopefully you can see my points as well. I always hate seeing this kind of AMV contest fallout. Perhaps I should stop visiting this particular forum ;).


I do see your point, but suggest not getting too upset about this. Feedback is generally a good thing, and while we hope everybody would be polite, you have to allow for human nature. "AMV drama" can be as entertaining as the AMVs. At least there have been no personal insults - or very few. (The "crazy lady" title was uncalled for, but you've been around since 2002 so you know that anneke and ErMaC (and maybe Mister Furious) have some history between them.) Even SpPANDA has been more restrained than I can remember.

I didn't have a problem with anneke's post, no more so than ErMaC's comments on the mailing list. Both were pretty blunt and made multiple use of the "C" word. :shock:
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Postby TaranT » Thu Jun 03, 2004 2:25 am

Vlad G Pohnert wrote:
TaranT wrote:In fact, controversy seems to be attached to all the West Coast AMV contests. Except Anime Evolution, but there's time for that one.

As long as I'm running things at AE hopefully there should be none... :wink:

Sounds good. Just didn't want you to feel like we were ignoring you. :)
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Postby Starherd » Thu Jun 03, 2004 4:19 am

Many thanks to Scott for making such a considerate post... I only have one question...

scottanime wrote:Judges
...As for the judges awards being different from the viewers choice, well that's the point. the fans see videos and vote for enjoyment, the judeges are looking what we regard to as content, you can agree or disagree with our methods or judgements in awards we present, but if you attend the event, you have the right to vote differently form the judges. Certain things I accept, the fan base of Fanime demigraphic is age 14-23, where the youngest member of the judgeing staff this year was 26. sure that may have somethign to do with it, but in the end, it is the opinion of the judges, that is all.


Um, this implies strongly that the audience will not vote for a video that the judges vote for, which makes no sense to me. A well-made video can easily be appreciated by both audience and judges - just because the judging criteria are different doesn't mean that they're mutually exclusive. The audience is not unintelligent; they're just as likely to vote for a video that's obviously had a lot of work put into it as the judges are.

Anyway, that also makes it sound like the judges wait and pick their videos to award after the audience vote is taken, which also makes no sense to me - they would then be influenced by how the audience voted more than by the merits of the videos themselves. O_O

scottanime wrote:content
In regards to "cry little Idol" video
Yes this video's creator did ask me if he should submit a censored version and after reviewign the material I said it wasn't nessisary.Part of that desicison is the region at atmosphere that Fanime is in. Had I been runnign the contest with the same pool of videos in a region like say, Utah, I would have DQ'd the video almsot instantly sicne it was appropriate for the region, or a more conservative con which has stricker policeies. however for the past few years fanime has been fairly laxed in this area, ( adult stars in dealers room, hentai and yaoi marathons ) While I keep certain things out of the AMV contest a few things I will allow for creative freedom. The video in question, while shocking, does not cross a legal barrier for PG-13 content. It comes very close, but not over it, another video in semis did the same for language. However I do agree that this needs to be address to the viewing audince and next year during my announcements I will add that this is an unrated event and some sequences may not be appropriate, but I will keep that a rateing system will be in place for submitted videos.


An announcement is a good idea. However, the hentai and yaoi stuff is id-checked over 18 only, and the adult stars in the dealers room aren't exactly demonstrating their profession in front of passers-by, so the point about CA being more relaxed than Utah that way doesn't make much sense to me. Also, I'd be pretty pissed if I waited hours to get in to an event with my kids only to be told, after being seated, that some videos that would be shown were not child-safe, so we'd have to leave. Stuff to keep in mind.

Regarding time: it was a four day con, and the events I wanted to go to were... all on Saturday. As a result, I did not attend Sunday or Monday (I tried to attend the AMV semifiinals on Monday, but the baby said no), and got pretty bored on Friday. So, I feel like time was not used well at the con. Even if the AMV finals *must* be on Saturday afternoon (which I don't agree with anyway - I'd rather go Sunday afternoon and get my money's worth for paying for four days of convention), I still feel that it's very important to have the semifinals before the finals. Given how few people really want to sit through five hours of videos, why couldn't they have been Friday night programming?

Okay, I think the second comment turned into a question... sorry...
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Postby mckeed » Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:30 am

I love how everyone doesn't even see the piles of violence in my cry little idol video and only see the nudity. I had a person stabbing someone multiple times in a very violent and bloody fashion and no one complains about it. Yes, the panty ripping was a little on the edge. It was meant to be that way. It was meant to be pretty shocking. Technically nothing was actually shown but the ripping so to me this falls under violence, but I didn't think that was really the worst part of it. There is a problem with people in this country favoring violence over nudity. I think its rather silly and think violence is much worse than nudity.

As I stated, I had categorized the panty ripping under violence and not under nudity, which is why I kept it. I figured that violence is easier to get by people than nudity. I did initially try to edit around it but it just didn't match the feeling of desperation I wanted to convey in the video as well as I wanted. I was building up the ending and that was just the best way to punctuate what I wanted. In the end it was categorized into nudity anyway. Go figure.
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Postby MadNavigator » Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:10 am

I'm just both surprised and honored that I made the finals, honestly. What surprised me even more was that the video I wasn't counting on to really get too far made it to the final round ("Ohayo Spaceboy").

What made it, made it. What won, won. Don't know if my other video ("Beautiful...Man?") was shown in the Semis, because I had a plane to catch during the showing. If I have anything to say about ErMaC's video...it's that it would be fine as something on the projector wall of some anime-themed nightclub. But that's about it. He won the cookies, no big whoop.

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Postby Venomi » Fri Jun 04, 2004 7:29 am

I'm suprized over all this fuzz... :? I'm just happy to have my first AMV win, althought i don't much participate on contests anyway... And i agree in the fact that judges were averagely older then the viewers so it will give a different perspect on reviewing an AMV. Everyone knows what is good and what is bad in they're opinion. Mayby older persons look more to the idea, complexity and technicality in an AMV and younger persons look for the overall feeling it gives? :? Anyway, i wish i would have been there just to see my work on big screen... It must be the best feeling in the AMV community. 8)
P.S. I wonder if they post prizes as far as Finland? :lol:
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Postby Rune72 » Sun Jun 06, 2004 12:36 am

First, im wondering when the creators of Extraordinary World and Love is a Battlefield are going to upload their videos. Id like very much to see them again.

Second, im wondering, what is all this ridiculous arguments about? Is this common among this community? Personally, im just a viewer who greatly enjoyed the show (great work guys, a definetely excellent year) and so maybe I cant see the underlying arguments between you, but the amount of anger being shown in this topic just seems foolish. I voted for Extraordinary World as being best of show, despite thinking that while interesting, the hand drawn segment in the middle was drawn out much too long. Maybe my enjoyment of it is explainable because im a simple AMV fan who is attracted by big colors and happy effects, or I was dirtied beforehand like the judges. I guess thats for you guys to say.

Anyways, constructive criticism is understandable, but do you people really need to attack at each other like wounded animals?
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Postby Vlad G Pohnert » Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:16 am

Rune72 wrote:First, im wondering when the creators of Extraordinary World and Love is a Battlefield are going to upload their videos. Id like very much to see them again.


I'll post Love is a Battlefield up tonight.. All I have right now is an mpeg1 and just too busy to make a DviX encode. It's do for now I suppose :wink:

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Postby TaranT » Sun Jun 06, 2004 3:21 am

Vlad G Pohnert wrote:
Rune72 wrote:First, im wondering when the creators of Extraordinary World and Love is a Battlefield are going to upload their videos. Id like very much to see them again.


I'll post Love is a Battlefield up tonight.. All I have right now is an mpeg1 and just too busy to make a DviX encode. It's do for now I suppose

I had a bad link to this on my ACen list. Sorry 'bout that. It's fixed now.
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