Otakon AMV contest- next year

This forum is for the announcement and discussion of anime music video contests.

Postby genestarwind21122 » Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:49 pm

You really can't do that. That would be like gathering all of your music videos together and saying I'll burn them to disk and you give me $5.00 to support my computer and burner. The whole thing about amv contest are they are suppost to be free of charge. I wouldn't mind an earlier deadline like I said before. Charging for things and getting rid of prescreenings I think are out of the question.
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Postby aluminumstudios » Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:00 pm

I think charging to see the contest and charging to enter a video into the contest are two different things (and I'm suggesting charging an entrace fee which is far different from charging for your work.) Theoretically the constest is funded by con registration fees. The amount of money that the growing contest recieves may not be enough, so I was suggesting a nominal entrance fee as an alternative to help cope with the growth (and pay for costs associated with pre-screenings, resources and materials needed to handle the large number of submissions, etc.) Most large, organized, competitions have an entrace fee of some kind (I remember paying $30 or more years ago to enter Tae Kwon Do tournaments for example.) I've also been to cell painting workshops and such that charged a nominal fee because the event consumed resouces that had to be supported somehow ...
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Postby iserlohn » Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:29 pm

senta wrote:Too many prescreeners isn't the problem.


Ain't that the truth. All you have to do is say "prescreenings are this weekend" and anyone who watches AMVs wants to tag along. IMHO the more the merrier until they start demanding compensation for the mental anguish caused by watching 6-8 hours of AMVs at a time.

aluminumstudios wrote:Charging for pre-screenings wouldn't be good, but it's not unheard of to charge entrance fees for various types of contests in other fields. Perhaps a nominal charge (like $5) to enter the AMV contest (due when you send in your signed paper) would help.


I'd be up for this. I still say, though, that the fastest way to drop submissions in the Otakon prescreenings is to force people to buy a prereg.

aluminumstudios wrote:Speaking of screening, is there any type of option for someone who might want to have their video shown at the con during the AMV screening but not necessarily be part of the contest?


IIRC this has always been on the contest reg form, but it still means filling out the contest form to get your video shown (since it has all the grouping information and the "you can show my video" waiver). At that point I'd imagine most people go "why bother" and leave it in.

Also, I believe one of the goals of prescreenings on the administrative side is to compile all the non-contest tapes in advance as a way to get organised early, calculate runtimes, make sure nothing's glitched, etc. In 2002, the prescreening tapes were shown as-is in the fan programming track. In 2003 they were redone as the prescreening tapes themselves were rushed out 48 hours before the event.
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Postby Nightowl » Mon Apr 05, 2004 5:09 pm

Charging people to enter a contest that uses copyright prohibited material, technically, is VERY illegal - there are many small film festivals that have been shut down due to legal issues for doing the same thing. Some festivals try to bypass the laws by having a disclaimer and/or forcing the entrant to sign that they have obtained permission. There are two problems with that - one, it's the contest/festival's ultimate responsibility to check for copyrights; and two, should an entrant's work be shown and they did sign said document, they can also be held accountable. I know I'm not willing to go to court over an AMV contest... The only reason legality would truly matter in this case is Otakon is huge. There's always the chance some RIAA misfit could be in the audience, waiting for the chance to pounce. In this Bush climate of insanity, I wouldn't doubt it.

Besides, is money really the question here? There are better ways to cut back the contest... Making money an issue as far as AMVs go, for me, will never happen unless the legal issues get ironed out. We're safe for now. If the contest isn't running low on funds, then there's a monetary return on the AMV contest. You guys could get some bean counters in there, route the money into the rest of the con, spend a little extra on the contest itself; however, if it was working as-is, there is still a legal issue once money exchanges hands.

Charging people to enter isn't actually an option, right? I mean, this is about getting less entries, so one person doesn't go insane...

Personally, out of all of this, I HATE the idea of a cutoff (i.e. amount of videos in the contest), as I'm a last minute entrant myself. I like those few extra seconds to perfect one shot. But that's just me. Also, I like the ideas of more people handling the tapes. It's not hard to get people to work for a con, let alone an AMV contest, free of charge. In my opinion, that's the simplest way to take care of things.

You know, one reason I like the Otakon AMV contest is that it's run pretty much like a film festival, minus a panel of judges judging your work and the whole money situation. A bigger staff would probably help. Pre-screenings are not that different from staff. Pulling back the entrance date is cool too. A deadline is a deadline, regardless. Hell, most festival deadlines are six months in advance due to the number of entries. If money isn't an issue, don't consider it. If it is, call a lawyer. A good one.

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Postby aluminumstudios » Mon Apr 05, 2004 5:32 pm

Nightowl wrote:Charging people to enter a contest that uses copyright prohibited material, technically, is VERY illegal
-N


It was just an idea of how to to get resources and possibly scale be some entries, I didn't think of that! Money wasn't mentioned as a current need, I was just throwing a suggestion out that sounded good before reading your post.
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Postby Zarxrax » Mon Apr 05, 2004 5:49 pm

You just want less video entries right? How about making a requirement like they have for the AWA masters contest... you have to have had some previous recognition in a contest before. I mean you really wouldn't even have to check and verify that the people really did... it would just cut a bunch of people from submitting in the first place.
Discouraging to newbies? Yea. Elitist? Yea. But I think thats irrelevant. Otakon is now the biggest convention in the country, and when people go to watch amvs at the biggest convention, they want to see GOOD ones. 95% of good amvs will come from creators that are already estabilshed. Its quite unlikely that you'll see some dude make an awesome award winning amv on their first try... they can always send in their videos to smaller conventions.

Of course, just a suggestion. Feel free to flame me.
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Postby Vlad G Pohnert » Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:00 pm

Zarxrax wrote:You just want less video entries right? How about making a requirement like they have for the AWA masters contest... you have to have had some previous recognition in a contest before. I mean you really wouldn't even have to check and verify that the people really did... it would just cut a bunch of people from submitting in the first place.
Discouraging to newbies? Yea. Elitist? Yea. But I think thats irrelevant. Otakon is now the biggest convention in the country, and when people go to watch amvs at the biggest convention, they want to see GOOD ones. 95% of good amvs will come from creators that are already estabilshed. Its quite unlikely that you'll see some dude make an awesome award winning amv on their first try... they can always send in their videos to smaller conventions.

Of course, just a suggestion. Feel free to flame me.


I still find that unfair. Some of the real good videos come from people who have never one before... Frankly I don't like the idea of restricting it like that...

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Postby genestarwind21122 » Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:35 pm

Vlad G Pohnert wrote:
Zarxrax wrote:You just want less video entries right? How about making a requirement like they have for the AWA masters contest... you have to have had some previous recognition in a contest before. I mean you really wouldn't even have to check and verify that the people really did... it would just cut a bunch of people from submitting in the first place.
Discouraging to newbies? Yea. Elitist? Yea. But I think thats irrelevant. Otakon is now the biggest convention in the country, and when people go to watch amvs at the biggest convention, they want to see GOOD ones. 95% of good amvs will come from creators that are already estabilshed. Its quite unlikely that you'll see some dude make an awesome award winning amv on their first try... they can always send in their videos to smaller conventions.

Of course, just a suggestion. Feel free to flame me.


I still find that unfair. Some of the real good videos come from people who have never one before... Frankly I don't like the idea of restricting it like that...

Vlad


That's true because I was new to amv's and it wouldn't be right for other newbs see there video on the big screen even if it didn't make it. And agree with Vlad about it being very illegal considering making amv's right now is really gray.
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Postby Nightowl » Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:41 am

genestarwind21122 wrote:And agree with Vlad about it being very illegal considering making amv's right now is really gray.


Hey! ;)

Ya know, if you kept newb videos out of the contest, that could possibly lead to good things - such as, that Love is Flowers video would've NEVER made it, let alone won! That video sucked so much... Besides, with the amount of contests out there now, and the ease it takes to win them, I'm sure everyone on this board has three or four trophies by now. Maybe even five or six.

Now, let's see who will take what as sarcasm and what will take who as actual opinion... do I have an actual opinion? Who loves ya?

I want to flame you, zarx, unfortunately, you've inspired me to reload my missing AE plug-ins and fix my system... therefore, I simply give you this: :)

Wow, that contained one too many in-jokes that relate to specific individuals. If you understood this post, you're as crazy as I want to be.

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Postby dwchang » Tue Apr 06, 2004 10:50 am

Nightowl wrote:
genestarwind21122 wrote:And agree with Vlad about it being very illegal considering making amv's right now is really gray.


Hey! ;)

Ya know, if you kept newb videos out of the contest, that could possibly lead to good things - such as, that Love is Flowers video would've NEVER made it, let alone won!


Haha, I'm (sadly?) somewhat in the same boat. Otakon was probably my first "big con win" or whatever and if there was some award requirement, I probably wouldn't have been able to submit (and subject my 80's torture on the masses). Then again, I'm not trying to say "how dare you NOT include my video?" or something like that...

In any case, doesn't JACON have something like that "have to buy a prereg badge" or something? They seem to be doing alright entry (and legal) wise. I know this is still somewhat money related, but it's more of a "supporting Otakon" thing and doesn't have to do with the actual contest getting funds.
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Postby dji » Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:08 pm

dokool wrote:A good start would be a stricter pre-prescreening process. Each prescreening tape we watched had a couple vids that got disqualified for whatever reason (Subs, dubs, bad language, etc), and it would have saved everyone time if they weren't put on the tapes to begin with...

-DOKool


matt and pat did just that.. and there just were a handful they didnt' catch before hand.
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Postby SarahtheBoring » Tue Apr 27, 2004 5:19 pm

Vlad G Pohnert wrote:
I still find that unfair. Some of the real good videos come from people who have never one before... Frankly I don't like the idea of restricting it like that...

Vlad


And there are no other cons, anywhere in the entire world, that they can send their "real good" vids?
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Postby Cybermat » Mon May 03, 2004 10:38 pm

My 2 yen on some of the ideas raised...

Charging Entry Fee := Bad

Requiring money from submitters inculates the mindset that submitters will have to "work the system" to "get more for their money", so then they'll demand guarantees, demand refunds, bounce checks, haggle over the price, attempt to barter with livestock or favors instead of paying, plead poverty instead of paying, 'forget' to pay, want to throw lots of money around if they *aren't* poor, or make accusations of fraud & greed & embezzlement if they get disqualified from the contest after paying. Plus, ideologically, people will say that it discriminates against the virtuous poor and caters to the corrupt wealthy.

Plus, the convention is a non-profit organization, and the money flow for non-profits are getting watched at lot more closely by the Eternal Revenue Service these days. It's... doubtful... that fees extracted in association with any activity involving derivative intellectual property can be justified to federal auditors as mission-appropriate for a 501C3. (And BTW getting around it by *not* reporting the money does constitute tax fraud.)

Charging Fee for Prescreenings := Bad

The big problem with prescreenings is getting enough people to show up to make the effort of organizing them worthwhile. It takes dedication and sincere interest in AMVs to watch 12 hours of AMVs and make reasoned judgements about them. Yeah, the prescreeners get to see everything first, but it's still hours and hours of time. Doing anything to discourage potential volunteers from helping out is... counter-productive... to say the very least.

Start Prescreenings Earlier

Two-thirds of the entries never show up before the last two weeks leading up to the deadline. I suppose there might be 2 hours of submissions from early-bird submitters, but probably not much more than that.

Also, if there's an evaluation prescreening before the submission deadline, it has the potential to make the competition 'unfair' because the late submitters will be able to see (at least some of) their 'competition' and alter their own submissions based on that knowledge.

Make Deadline Earlier

Otakon's deadline is already fourteen weeks in advance of the convention (two weeks + one more week for each hour of AMVs received the previous year). Pushing the deadline up will mean the contest would have to be announced only three months after the previous year's convention has ended (or something like that).

Recruit Staff Assistants

Hey, couldn't hurt. :-)

...

My big concern with an increasing quantity of submissions (besides stress on the AMV staffers) is that showing all of the AMV submissions at the con will eventually become impossible.

The time available for AMVs is finite (weekends just ain't gettin' any longer, even in Baltimore in the summertime) so that means that some AMVs will get skipped, and that's probably gonna be the bottom of the field, and that's probably gonna be stuff from newbies, unless they've really hit the ground running, quality-wise.

Plus, timeslots are at a premium at the con, and AMV people will be unhappy if the tape their AMV is on only gets shown one time in a 'bad' timeslot -- especially if that timeslot is on early Friday or late Sunday and the AMV person misses it because they're not at the convention yet/anymore.
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Postby OtakuForLife » Tue May 04, 2004 8:40 am

My video last year got shown late sunday and I have feeling so will this
one... it's a little-low on the video quailty size ,due to the series only
existing in fansub format. Anyway, here's the problem with cutting
the newbe videos they don't get to see the crowd reaction... When
my imfamous "Damn it Naru" video premiered to an increadabily quite
aduence , who I believe lost at least 3 brain cells, it made me want to
make a better video. All I'm saying is give newbes a chance :)
Anyway, hopefully this year I made a video that won't huant me for
the rest of my AMVing dayz.
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Postby rogueintellectproductions » Wed May 05, 2004 4:22 pm

I'm a long-time watcher, newbie creator, and I would be really put off by a name-recognition requirement - what better way to make a name for yourself than to hit it at Otakon?

With that being said, I think the best way to facilitate things is to make the parameters of the contest stricter. The submission window is a good example; I also think limiting the means of submission in order to standardize the entries would help. In other words, take FTP submissions only, or AVI/MPG format only, etc. It would be easier to deal with a large number of entries if they are all in the same form. I think it would also encourage creators to be more committed to their videos and Otakon's contest - a sort of self-imposed natural selection. If you truly believe your video is good enough, you'd make the extra effort to adhere to the contest criteria.

It does sound a little elitist, but it sounds like something does have to be done.

RIP out!
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