AMV Contest Lists Site Is Moving

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AMV Contest Lists Site Is Moving

Postby TaranT » Sun Jan 11, 2004 5:20 am

Thanks to free hosting provided by www.1and1.com the AMV contest lists site now has its own domain:

http://www.amv-contest-lists.org/

Please update links, favorite lists, etc. with this new address. I'll leave the old location active for a little while longer, but eventually it will have only a link to the new site.

This new location has more space and bandwidth. Hopefully, the page locks that occurred last year after each large contest will no longer happen.
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Postby jbone » Sun Jan 11, 2004 10:10 am

The site's HTML is flaky and doesn't work properly in Opera - all the text items overlap.

Also, when a user selects a year, it spawns a new window.
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Postby trythil » Sun Jan 11, 2004 10:24 am

The HTML renders funny (similar problems to those seen in Opera) in Mozilla Firebird 0.7 too. I'd guess that any Gecko-based browser will have issues.
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Postby kmv » Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:59 am

Confirmed on Moz 1.5

The problem is your use of <div> is incorrect. In fact in your case I don't think you need to use it at all.
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Postby TaranT » Sun Jan 11, 2004 3:00 pm

I've tested the site with IE 5.5 and everything looks ok. Tomorrow, I'll take a look at it with Netscape 4.x. The core problem appears to be in the use of CSS, although I have to say my style sheet is painfully simple.

jbone wrote:The site's HTML is flaky and doesn't work properly in Opera - all the text items overlap.
Also, when a user selects a year, it spawns a new window.

I'll fix the new-window thing. As for Opera...is it just the main page, or the tables, too?

trythil wrote:The HTML renders funny (similar problems to those seen in Opera) in Mozilla Firebird 0.7 too. I'd guess that any Gecko-based browser will have issues.

Mozilla apparently has many issues with style sheets. (ref. CSS specs annotated for Mozilla). There are so many bugs that about the only thing I can do is stop using a style sheet - which I'm reluctant to do since it makes maintaining the tables easier. It's possible many of the bugs have been fixed in later releases of Mozilla. I'm still researching this.

kmv wrote:Confirmed on Moz 1.5
The problem is your use of <div> is incorrect. In fact in your case I don't think you need to use it at all.

It's possible I mistyped something, but I think the use of <div> is generally correct. As I mentioned above, it works fine with IE. It may be unnecessary: in a couple of cases I'm using <div> only to provide indentation and leading.

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I'll look into this some more. Maybe I can detect the browser type and switch off Mozilla or Opera to a different formatting scheme.

I did find this page that looks like it will be useful. I don't know if it will fix everything.
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Postby jbone » Sun Jan 11, 2004 4:27 pm

The entire site was a mess under Opera.

You can't base web design under any version of Internet Explorer - there are so many proprietary HTML things that'll be fine under IE but break everything else...
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Postby dokidoki » Sun Jan 11, 2004 4:33 pm

For one thing, try removing "position: fixed;" from #banner.
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Postby dokool » Sun Jan 11, 2004 7:11 pm

Just a suggestion, can there be an email to submit corrections/additions? There are always a few vids that don't have links, and those have probably been added to the 'Org by now...

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Postby TaranT » Mon Jan 12, 2004 4:39 am

Didn't mean to ignore anybody: had to run after making that last post....

I've put the navigation pages through approved validators:

** W3C Markup Validation for all HTML pages
** WDG CSSCheck for the style sheet

Some things needed to be fixed, but these pages are now validated. The style sheet had a few typos, and I removed an ambiguous and irrelevant background color declaration. The HTML pages were missing a DOCTYPE declaration which I suspect is what was tripping Mozilla/Opera, causing it to render in quirks mode.

A sample validation statement:
W3C wrote:The document located at <http://www.amv-contest-lists.org/conlinks.htm> was checked and found to be valid HTML 4.01 Transitional. This means that the resource in question identified itself as "HTML 4.01 Transitional"; and that we successfully performed a formal validation using an SGML or XML Parser (depending on the markup language used).

I also read through that Mozilla Web Authoring page (link is above) and cleared up any issues listed there.

I have not updated the table pages. There's a crapload of them and it's almost 2 AM. I'll get around to them eventually. At a minimum, each one needs a DOCTYPE declaration.

Tim: I left the banner position fixed for now since the style sheet validates. If there is still a problem, I can change that next.
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Postby TaranT » Mon Jan 12, 2004 4:45 am

dokool wrote:Just a suggestion, can there be an email to submit corrections/additions? There are always a few vids that don't have links, and those have probably been added to the 'Org by now...

I do want to add, maybe not a FAQ, but some kind of mission statement. I can put a contact address there. You can always PM me if you see something.

However, the Mozilla issues take priority. And I still have to clean up this AMV I'm sending to AniBo. :roll:
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Postby jbone » Mon Jan 12, 2004 10:38 am

Validated or not, the formatting is still screwed up. :)
"If someone feels the need to 'express' himself or herself with a huge graphical 'singature' that has nothing to do with anything, that person should reevaluate his or her reasons for needing said form of expression, possibly with the help of a licensed mental health practitioner."
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Postby kmv » Mon Jan 12, 2004 11:54 am

I didn't mean that your syntax for div was incorrect, I meant that I didn't understand why you wanted to apply those styles in the first place.

The absolute positioning stuff in CSS2 isn't fully supported by many browsers (except in Opera and Moz where it is supported), and IE doesn't really support it. I am really surprised to here that it works for you in IE5.5, it doesn't work at all in my IE6.0.2800

The "position: fixed;" you have in #banner is actually designed to float the section (the div) above the page - and in Moz and Opera this is what it does. However unless constrained in someway the rest of the text will start from the top of the page which places a big chunk of the text under the floating banner, and #mainlist makes no attempt to constrain the text formatting


So, in summary the CSS2 code you are using isn't supported by IE and is broken in Moz and Opera. I realise that Moz still has some ways to go on CSS2 - but it seems that IE has even further to go.

Personally, I'd just get rid of the CSS2 stuff. Stick to CSS1 - you will have more hair at the end of it.
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Postby TaranT » Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:53 pm

First off, a mea culpa: I forgot to upload the new style sheet last night. Working too fast too late, I guess. It's there now (9AM Pacific).

I also removed the "fixed" from the banner. I think kmv and dokidoki are on to something that I missed. "Fixed' means it's supposed to stay put, but IE 5.5 just scrolled it off the top of the page. It scrolled it back, too, so it looked ok. And it maintained its position relative to the other text. But it definitely wasn't "fixed", as in locked in position.

I was thinking that these problems were only affecting a little-used browser, but if IE 6 is screwed up too...then I'm surprised I haven't heard about it before (meaning the IE 6 part; trythil once mentioned that it didn't work with Mozilla). Structurally, nothing has really changed since the previous hosting service.

Anyway, I need to get one of my PCs updated to the latest IE. And I have a just-foolin'-around installation of Mandrake 9.1, so I can probably test with Mozilla, too.
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Postby jbone » Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:59 pm

TaranT wrote:I was thinking that these problems were only affecting a little-used browser, but if IE 6 is screwed up too...

Just because you don't use it doens't mean it's little-used. While IE is used by the largest percentage of the population, Mozilla (and its derivatives) and Opera are used by large numbers of people, and it's poor design methodology to not take all browsers into consideration.
"If someone feels the need to 'express' himself or herself with a huge graphical 'singature' that has nothing to do with anything, that person should reevaluate his or her reasons for needing said form of expression, possibly with the help of a licensed mental health practitioner."
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Postby kmv » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:25 pm

TaranT wrote:but if IE 6 is screwed up too...then I'm surprised I haven't heard about it before

Actually, I was referring to CSS2 support when I said it didn't work. Although after rereading my post I can see how you thought I was referring to the page, I phrased that rather badly.


But it works now. Thanks.
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