Otakon AMV Master's Invitational

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Postby jbone » Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:43 pm

TnAdct1 wrote:
outlawed wrote:I will keep this fairly short.

My advice:
Keep the same plan but scratch the invite only. Make it so those people who have won an Otakon category before MUST submit into the new contest (let's call it advanced) for that category and CAN NOT submit for that category into the regular contest (let's call it beginner). This will give people who have won before stiffer competition and allow new submitters or past non-winners a better chance to win a category. Also it will allow you to present the high quality 2nd contest (i.e. best of the best) for your audience which is what I gather you made this 2nd contest for.


One thing to add here (if the Masters contest does take place at Otakon 2005): have first runner-ups also be eligible as well. If memory serves me right, there's currently 22 people or groups that have won the Otakon AMV contest, and of those 22, some of them have retired from the AMV creation business, which means there's less people who will be eligible for the Masters. Also, with the first runner-ups being in the Masters, this would mean more of the experts of AMV's (i.e. VicBond007 Productions, Aluminum Studios) will be involved in that part of the AMV contest as well.

Joe Klemm


If you include runners-up as well, remove te mandatory "MUST enter Masters." Not every "runner-up" entrant is worthy of being a Master - cruel as this may sound, some people make finals because the other entries _JUST_ _SUCKED_ _EVEN_ MORE._
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Postby Scintilla » Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:46 pm

jbone wrote:cruel as this may sound, some people

<---
jbone wrote:make finals because the other entries _JUST_ _SUCKED_ _EVEN_ MORE._
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Postby mckeed » Thu Dec 18, 2003 11:36 pm

hmmm.....i agree with most of the things being said against the contest. Its a bad idea. I think animeboston has got the right idea with the tiered approach. As other people have commented, If anything i would make it previous Otakon winners. Picking people for an invitational contest is bad. If there were a system lets say that was clearly written out and explained how entires are eligible then that is one thing. Oppinions of a person are very biased and are bound to cause problems with other people crying "no-fair." Since there is now way to watch every video that every creator has made there is no possible way for you to make a good judgement on eligibility.
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Postby Vlad G Pohnert » Fri Dec 19, 2003 12:10 am

Well, A lot of my thoughts have been mentioned already.

I feel that Otakon has one of the best contests in terms of audiance and diversity than most cons. The contest has pretty much been fan votes only which is something I not all that supportive in terms of determining all the winners. Personally, I feel a more concentrated effort should be made to exand this contest and possible add more judging and catagories into it.

Also, I'm not really clear here on what is trying to be acheaved by having such a contest by invite only? Why does it have better prizes? Why by invite only? Is it to have a better selection of videos in the contest? If that is the case it dosn't really make sence to me since the existing contest pretty much already has the better videos as the finalists since so many creators send into it, and I don't see getting better ones by doing this...

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Postby dokidoki » Fri Dec 19, 2003 12:47 am

BogoSort wrote:Are they going to be forced into the category that they won in taking one of the possibilities in #1, or do they get free reign? How are you going to deal if they become unbalanced?

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oh... wait... You meant if the categories become unbalanced?

Never mind."
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Postby Vlad G Pohnert » Fri Dec 19, 2003 2:55 am

Well, after giving the proposed contest some more thought, I think I'll just sum up my additional thoughts on it as feedback as follows:

- The current contest is considered by myself and others as quite prestigious being the one of the biggest contests and a very popular event. Creating a "Master" type contest will diminish this and thus have a negative effect on it in the long run.

- Making it “invite only” and giving it the better prizes just enforces this even further. It tends to sound like the present contest is not good enough and a better one must be created.

- I was always under the impression that Prizes, operating $$ for the AMV contest from was tight. If so, how will this change for this contest?

- Some have pointed out that AWA has a master contest so why not Otakon? Well, in my opinion, the way the contests have developed and the whole nature of the cons make it impossible to make a direct comparisons. AWA in general is a much smaller con where the contests have grown into the con and are part of what makes AWA what it is. Otakon is much bigger convention where it's AMV contest has become unique the way it is and I think this kind of contest does not fit into the cons “Character”.

- I realize the contest may be of good intent, but I think the way it was presented here makes it sound too much like a "private" contest, which will get the better budgeting and support. Frankly I enjoy the company of all my fellow creators and have always enjoyed entering into Otakon's contest on equal footing. Besides, will a contest like this generate better videos? I think not….

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Postby StudioKZ » Fri Dec 19, 2003 6:09 am

HEhe... This is a joke, it's not even worth putting the effort into. I mean 'Personally Hand You An Invitation'? Come on, now...
...IT'S <gasp>

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Postby Red Wolf » Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:06 am

BogoSort wrote:3. How is this going to be judged? Will there be a sekrit L33T panel like in AWA Masters?


I really wish people would stop comparing this to AWA Masters. The word "masters" aside they aren't even close to the same thing. AWA Masters is judged by the AWA VAT director. This is a known fact, he announces this every year at the awards ceremony.

And for the record the rules for AWA Masters in the past has only required that you have won at a recongized AMV contest within the last year. There is no invite list and even creators who can't attend AWA are allowed to submit entries in the last couple of years. It certainly limits the entries but it isn't nearly as elite as this.
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Postby BogoSort » Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:17 am

Red Wolf wrote:
BogoSort wrote:3. How is this going to be judged? Will there be a sekrit L33T panel like in AWA Masters?


I really wish people would stop comparing this to AWA Masters. The word "masters" aside they aren't even close to the same thing. AWA Masters is judged by the AWA VAT director. This is a known fact, he announces this every year at the awards ceremony.


I never said that this idea was going to be just like the AWA Masters. I think that most people who are posting here, know the difference, just like they know that the format and rules are up for discussion. People mention the AWA Masters contest because it's probably the most prominent example of such a higher status contest, and they want to see how this idea could potentially deviate from that to make it fit within the Otakon model.

Personally I think that there's lots of potential for the strengths of Otakon to show through in a more competitive contest. There are lots of potential ideas for things to do to spice up the Otakon AMV contest.

And just to be nitpicky, from my understanding, the AWA Masters videos are judged by a panel, with their input contributing to the final decision which is made by the AWA VAT director.
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Postby MCWagner » Fri Dec 19, 2003 11:31 am

BogoSort wrote: And just to be nitpicky, from my understanding, the AWA Masters videos are judged by a panel, with their input contributing to the final decision which is made by the AWA VAT director.


Sort of true. I have a panel. (They're hardly secret. This year it was two professionals from ADV on the technical stuff, and the previous year's winner, Fred Graupp.) But I could ignore them all if I wanted to.

As to the rest...well, I've got seperate concerns from the standpoint of an editor and as a contest runner.

As a contest runner, the only thing that really distresses me is that it's being called the "Master's Invitational" as I don't think it's very appropriate. It's not like we claim sole ownership of the "Master's" title, but ours was entirely based upon the local "Master's Championship" Golf tournament that takes place in Augsta (except, of course, we don't bar women from competing :? ) which is where the green jacket comes from. I would think that Otakon would want a similarly-locally-themed contest based on something native to their area.

As an editor.....well, I have never had the time or liberty to attend out of state contests, and I'm hardly known as a great editor (these last fallow years of the "AWA director's curse" haven't helped) so the odds are really dang good that I won't be invited (or anywhere within range to have an inviation handed to me). That said, it's hard to pass judgement on this idea without knowing more about it, like the scale of the invites. Iron Chef only requires two competitors, and the first year we ran it, we had real trouble getting that many editors. An invite-only contest with four categories would need at least a couple dozen entries, and to get that many final submissions, I'd guess you'd need to invite 40-45 editors, minimum. Alternately, it could turn out well if there's some key aspects of it we haven't been told yet.
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Postby Nappy » Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:40 pm

AWA masters rules limit entrants, but winning at any recognized contest is still a very large group of ppl. But it still doesn't get that many entrants each year (over a dozen or so?). With this contest it would be a even smaller group of possible entrants, yet more catergories. Perhaps this one could still have alot of entrants, because its a personal invite and its a big contest, those invited might feel more obligated to make one >_>

Although, I think it would also cause a split with AWA's masters :\ (not that this contest should care about another con) I mean thats 2 exclusive videos made in around the same time. Some might need to choose one or the other, or do both but spend less time on both vids ._.
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Postby dwchang » Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:48 pm

Nappy wrote:AWA masters rules limit entrants, but winning at any recognized contest is still a very large group of ppl. But it still doesn't get that many entrants each year (over a dozen or so?).


Uhm..the numbers I heard were 40+ people entering the contest. The growth has been exponential.
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Postby MCWagner » Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:58 pm

dwchang wrote:
Nappy wrote:AWA masters rules limit entrants, but winning at any recognized contest is still a very large group of ppl. But it still doesn't get that many entrants each year (over a dozen or so?).


Uhm..the numbers I heard were 40+ people entering the contest. The growth has been exponential.


:shock:

Oh HELL no. 40+? Not even close. You might be thinking of the pro contest that got 54 entries, but Master's this last year got 16. Significant upward arc in submissions, but nowhere near exponential.
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Postby VegettoEX » Fri Dec 19, 2003 2:26 pm

I think the fact that most of the people expressing sentiments of caution concerning a new Otakon contest are past Otakon contest winners speaks great volumes. <B>There's a deep love and loyalty for Otakon's AMV contest as-is</B>, and any changes to that are potentially changing the way people might feel about the contest.

If there are extra resources to be dedicated to additional competitions, I'd rather see those resources placed with NON-competing showings. People are thoroughly expressing feelings that they don't wish to be placed on this golden pedestal ABOVE others; creating some kind of STANDARD way and place for EVERYONE to be shown together totally destroys any hint of "elitism" (god, do I hate that word, and I sincerely hope everyone else does, too).

Look at the fan-parody / trailer showings the last two years. There's been an entire ROOM dedicated to showing ONLY AMV and AMV-related (parodies, trailers) programming... and it's <B>constantly packed with people</B>. This should TELL us something. General con-goers WANT to see MORE of this kind of thing.

While trailers are still such a young concept, I'd love to see an organized, non-competiting showing of them. Sure, trailers are starting to seep over into contests and win awards (AWA), but I still think they're new enough that a con could really take a stand with non-competiting showings and let everyone be on equal ground, be shown together, and just have a good time.

Of course, I'm very biased (after seeing <I>The Professional</I> and <I>Obligatory EVA Trailer</I> played at Otakon 2K1 and 2K2, respectively), but watching a crowd that filled MORE than a single room want to see that kind of stuff...

The con is supposed to be for the general con-goers, not the AMV creators... I think if we pay attention to what THESE people want, it's showing they want more, more, more... and they don't care if its competiting, or not.
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Postby VegettoEX » Fri Dec 19, 2003 2:27 pm

Gah, fucked up my years. Thoughts / points still stand :P
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