who else is upset by the events of AX 2003

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Postby Ashton » Tue Jul 08, 2003 5:50 pm

xstylus wrote:This is the pettiest concept I have EVER had the displeasure of hearing, and there is absolutely ZERO logic behind it aside from opening up a slot so an inferrior video can get in. It sounds like something a sore loser or runner up would say at a competition. It's petty, and I have less than zero respect for any competition that employs such a petty rule.

That's exactly right (minus the zero logic part.) The issue is that there are many killer vids out there, but it requires to little effort to take part in more than one or two competitions. Yes, it is to make room for inferior videos. Exactly. But we don't have tiers of competition (except for AWA) so that would be like saying to your 6 year old son, "Son, I put you in a baseball team so you can learn how to play baseball. You'll be pitching against Babe Ruth in your first game, so start practicing now."
There has to be some way of limiting the number of conventions a video is sent to. What if Kevin Caldwell had decided to send his video to every con that had a competition. Nobody would win anything all year except for Kevin Caldwell. It wouldn't have been that difficult, but it's that sense of decency which kept him from doing it.
It's not evil to want a space in the competitions. It may be selfish, but so is sending your video to a million cons.
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Postby Quu » Tue Jul 08, 2003 6:06 pm

actually i find that different regions of the country have different tastes... and other than a fiew videos (like mamboleo) its actually rare for a video to truely sweep...
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Postby Jebadia » Tue Jul 08, 2003 6:08 pm

Mamboleo..

God help us!!
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Postby XStylus » Tue Jul 08, 2003 6:36 pm

Ashton wrote:That's exactly right (minus the zero logic part.) The issue is that there are many killer vids out there, but it requires to little effort to take part in more than one or two competitions. Yes, it is to make room for inferior videos. Exactly.


Oooooo-kay, so you realize that, yet you don't see the obvious problem in that?

But we don't have tiers of competition (except for AWA) so that would be like saying to your 6 year old son, "Son, I put you in a baseball team so you can learn how to play baseball. You'll be pitching against Babe Ruth in your first game, so start practicing now."

I can't say I agree with your analogy. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that competitions should accomodate upstart creators who are still learning how to swim with the sharks. Most competitions don't have a "kiddie pool" for the newbie creators, nor do they have the scheduling to hold one, nor would the attendees give a damn. They just want to see kickass AMVs. Period.

These AMV competitions are held for the FANS. The FANS want to see the best videos available. If a newbie didn't make it into the contest because of a veteran video which had already been racking up awards in several other competitions got in, too damned bad. Keep practiceing, keep making videos, and try again next year. I reiterate, these competitions aren't for the creators. They're for the fans.

With AMV competitions, you either make it in or you don't. These competitions aren't being held to glorify the creators or inflate the creator's egos, although that is a welcome side effect.

What if Kevin Caldwell had decided to send his video to every con that had a competition. Nobody would win anything all year except for Kevin Caldwell.


Even veteran creators stumble too you know. Vlad Pohnert and Brad DeMoss entered videos this year, and while they were decent, they weren't winners. A lot of winners I've seen recently have been names I've never heard before.

Had Kevin continued making videos, I'm confident he would have eventually been dethroned.

It's not evil to want a space in the competitions. It may be selfish, but so is sending your video to a million cons.


Yeah, it is a bit selfish to want to rack up awards. But hey, if you've got a superior video, you earned it. If I entered a video to a contest in which the only people who could compete were people who hadn't won awards anywhere else, you know how that victory would feel? STALE. I would want my videos to compete against the best.
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Postby dwchang » Tue Jul 08, 2003 6:51 pm

xstylus wrote:These AMV competitions are held for the FANS. The FANS want to see the best videos available. If a newbie didn't make it into the contest because of a veteran video which had already been racking up awards in several other competitions got in, too damned bad. Keep practiceing, keep making videos, and try again next year. I reiterate, these competitions aren't for the creators. They're for the fans.


I agree that they are for the fans and thus my argument is that the fans don't wanna see the same videos over and over again (even if they're good). Basically fans want to see good *AND* fresh material. A number of these cons are around the same locations (i.e. west coast or east coast) and thus fans have the possibility of seeing the same videos over and over again. Actually, this is probably fairly likely lately.

As you can tell, I am against "trolling" and believe that even though contests aren't for us per se, we as creators can limit ourselves to a few con awards (which is up to you..definition of "trolling" is a personal thing) since there is only a finite amount of recognition out there and we would like our fellow peers to share in it (spread the glory).

I agree that contests are to determine the "best," but at the same time, my feelings on this issue are more deeply rooted in a fellow respect for each other and *trying* to get that "finite" amount of recognition passed around.

If you've won a few awards, you've already established you have a great video, why not let someone else also establish that they have a good video as well? To me (key word....my opinion), it seems pointless to continually tout and remind people you have the greatest video. They already know and recognize that. If anything, just submit it as non-competing and then people will still see it.

Just my two cents. You have every right to think otherwise. We established in the last troll thread that this is not black and white and people have their own definitions and can do as they please. There are no "troll police." At the same time, I hope this will be a constructive and rational discussion.
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Postby Vlad G Pohnert » Tue Jul 08, 2003 7:10 pm

xstylus wrote:Even veteran creators stumble too you know. Vlad Pohnert and Brad DeMoss entered videos this year, and while they were decent, they weren't winners. A lot of winners I've seen recently have been names I've never heard before.

Had Kevin continued making videos, I'm confident he would have eventually been dethroned.


Stumble? Hmmm well, I never think of it as stumbling. I like my videos and like making them. Some win, while others do not, really nothing wrong with that.

Quite frankly that's a GOOD in my opinion. Also some think that if a video wins it's good and better than the rest... Well, I personally think that there are a lot of AWSOME and even in some respect BETTER videos out there that have never one an award...

In the end winning an award does not necessarily mean your video is any better or more superior to the ones that don't win....

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Postby Ashton » Tue Jul 08, 2003 7:35 pm

xstylus wrote:I can't say I agree with your analogy. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that competitions should accomodate upstart creators who are still learning how to swim with the sharks. Most competitions don't have a "kiddie pool" for the newbie creators, nor do they have the scheduling to hold one, nor would the attendees give a damn. They just want to see kickass AMVs. Period.

These AMV competitions are held for the FANS. The FANS want to see the best videos available. If a newbie didn't make it into the contest because of a veteran video which had already been racking up awards in several other competitions got in, too damned bad. Keep practiceing, keep making videos, and try again next year. I reiterate, these competitions aren't for the creators. They're for the fans.

With AMV competitions, you either make it in or you don't. These competitions aren't being held to glorify the creators or inflate the creator's egos, although that is a welcome side effect.

That's a really fine line you dance, and I don't know that I agree that videos are for the fans. Even in a contest situation, you can't say things like the mindwarp competitions are for the fans, there aren't even any fans there. Just other creators. AWA Pro is judged by creators too. There are tons of instances where the fans are not the people put in the decision making position, and I think there is a reason for that.
It's not about pride, or arrogance, it's about personal acomplishment. It's just the same as winning or loosing a pee-wee game, and I think it should be looked at in exactly the same way. We're all out there to have good competative fun, not necisarily to impress the fans. It's not about weather or not the fans liked it or weather you won, it's about a personal feeling of accomplishment, that can be felt at ANY level of competition.


(at least for me...)
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Postby Quu » Tue Jul 08, 2003 7:44 pm

i hate people ^_^

there... thats out of the way... i think anytime you have decisions made based on the mob, painful results happen...

I also beleive that you can't ignore the mob either...

and you know what... the mob will watch "kiddie level" music videow inners as much as master's winners...

geez... i guess the mob is only as dumb as you expect them to be
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Postby Pwolf » Tue Jul 08, 2003 8:15 pm

Quu wrote:i hate people ^_^



You too? well i don't hate everyone. there are a select few i don't ^_^



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Postby Nappy » Tue Jul 08, 2003 8:20 pm

Pwolf wrote:
Quu wrote:i hate people ^_^



You too? well i don't hate everyone. there are a select few i don't ^_^



Pwolf


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Postby Pwolf » Tue Jul 08, 2003 8:52 pm

lol, i'm a very lucky person lately ^_^



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Postby Ashton » Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:24 pm

Nappy wrote:I flip a coin whenever I met someone. you both got lucky :O

Better than Daniel's method. God... I wonder... does he have a method? I always thought he just hated everyone, but every once in a while he'll attach himself to a person, and it always ends up being bizare people.
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Postby dwchang » Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:42 pm

Ashton wrote:
Nappy wrote:I flip a coin whenever I met someone. you both got lucky :O

Better than Daniel's method. God... I wonder... does he have a method? I always thought he just hated everyone, but every once in a while he'll attach himself to a person, and it always ends up being bizare people.


I do? Must mean SpPanda and not me...
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Postby XStylus » Tue Jul 08, 2003 11:54 pm

dwchang wrote:I agree that they are for the fans and thus my argument is that the fans don't wanna see the same videos over and over again (even if they're good). Basically fans want to see good *AND* fresh material.


I'll grant you that to a partial extent. Not everyone goes to every con. I, for example, only go to AX. While I would like to go to AWA just once to see what it's like, and perhaps go to Fanime since it's somewhat close by, I don't have that luxury.

I'm willing to bet that 90% of the people at AX had not seen most of the videos that were shown.

I do feel that there should be a "freshness" limit on an AMV. An AMV older than 1 year from its creation or 6 months (give or take) from its first convention showing should be retired, in my opinion. However, I abhor the idea of retiring videos based upon the amount of awards its racked up.
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Postby Fluxmeister » Wed Jul 09, 2003 1:11 am

Vlad G Pohnert wrote:
xstylus wrote:Even veteran creators stumble too you know. Vlad Pohnert and Brad DeMoss entered videos this year, and while they were decent, they weren't winners. A lot of winners I've seen recently have been names I've never heard before.

Had Kevin continued making videos, I'm confident he would have eventually been dethroned.


Stumble? Hmmm well, I never think of it as stumbling. I like my videos and like making them. Some win, while others do not, really nothing wrong with that.

Quite frankly that's a GOOD in my opinion. Also some think that if a video wins it's good and better than the rest... Well, I personally think that there are a lot of AWSOME and even in some respect BETTER videos out there that have never one an award...

In the end winning an award does not necessarily mean your video is any better or more superior to the ones that don't win....

Vlad


Vlad, you better fix yourself, or else... or else... or else... uhm you might stumble!!! ...

xstylus, lemme cut to the point... I'd be careful throwing around statements like the one above about brad and vlad. It comes across as quite disrespectful. When amvs turn into football and we have announcers, then you can start to make comments like that... until then you might want to avoid them. :shock:

The whole eye of the beholder comes into play also... no wonder this was originally a post about a video that didn't win... As a judge a decision must be made... even if many disagree... that is their purpose. :P
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