The AWA 2013 Video Review Thread -- Final Voting RIGHT NOW!

[Voltage-Raichu]

We get to review videos, or only specific people?

[The Wired Knight]

Had a computer issue - does anyone have the link again for pro nominations? Please PM it to me.

[Mr Pilkington]

I was going to make a funny review thread, but after watching the videos and lurking on the drama, all I am going to interject is this:

Pro is a BLIND contest. I know, sometimes we find out that certain people are competing, and that happens, its fine; but there has to be a personal limit set on the number of leaked entries. The moderators of the contest can't and shouldn't have to enforce it to that level, the google rule should be enough to weed out the slips. It's "pro" contest and while this is still a hobby there is a certain level of professionalism that should be maintained by the competitors. I am sad to discover many that were opposed to the enforcement of the blind ruling have gone out of their way to pander via other mediums. If you don't believe in the rules, then simply don't compete. A bias peer review is no better than popularity contest. The contest this year was very broken. We can complain about the quality of videos, and I think many of us, self included, should hold ourselves to a much higher standard going forward. But if there is just one thing to takeaway from this wall of text, it's that just because a contest exists does not mean everyone has to compete. If you feel your video has merit, let it stand on its own. The less strong entries get cut early and strong stay to fight, but there is no need to whore an entry out other people in the competition. It's a cheap indirect violation of the contests rules, shows a lack of personal integrity, and harms the quality of the contest itself. Show respect for the contest, your fellow competitors and yourself.



This is not to attack the review thread. The reviews can be great fun and awesome to gain feedback. But keep the purpose of the contest in mind.

[toothpickvic]

I don't wanna come across as a ME TOO, but I mirror everything stated above. I believe there are a number of really good editors that will only submit to expo and masters now, simply because they believe that is the only place for their video to get a fair shot without being peer shuffled into the corner. I fear this will be another year where expo outshines pro, and we have no one to blame but ourselves and the reputation we have awarded this event.

[SailorDeath]

I don't wanna come across as a ME TOO, but I mirror everything stated above. I believe there are a number of really good editors that will only submit to expo and masters now, simply because they believe that is the only place for their video to get a fair shot without being peer shuffled into the corner. I fear this will be another year where expo outshines pro, and we have no one to blame but ourselves and the reputation we have awarded this event.

Next year I propose we institute a rule where AWA reps who are not competing move in and live with all entrants from the time the videos are downloaded until after final voting is completed. At any point when someone attempts to pander for votes from their peers the live in contact Jingoro via psychic link and informs him of the digression. At that point the AWA orbital canon vaporizes both the creator begging for votes and the person he was attempting to get votes from.

That'll teach em.

For real though, I've seen several creators complain about the quality of the contest going to hell with each passing year. THey blame the rules and regulations for the contest instead of the actual issue: So many people getting their friends to vote for them make others not want to compete. Some people here are parts of big groups, others are just individuals.

If I lost because I made a bad video, I can fully understand that. But if I found out I lost because a group conspired to vote their videos as the winners then I'd probably walk away from pro altogether or at least call for pro to be dissolved. Because at that point it'd have lost it's meaning. At the core of the contest the "Blind" aspect is the most important. Part of the reason so many of us wanted the rule of exclusive premiere was due to the fact one could figure out who made a specific video by just looking it up and figuring out who made it. Bias can be there even if you're not consciously thinking about it.

I remember the year I entered a video where I had written a parody to Highway Star and being a bit miffed that they didn't remove my studio name from the music credits and everyone in the contest knew it was my video. I often wonder if voting would have gone differently if my identity wasn't revealed.

[Warlike Swans]

I don't think this contest has been reduced to a popularity contest. Maybe knowing some one's videos could weigh my vote if I were on the fence between two videos I consider equal in quality, but with blind judging I'm perfectly happy to vote against a friend's video content in the knowledge that even if they would care, they never have to know.

I often disagree with contest results. There are ways to pander to audiences, there are way to pander to editors, there are ways to pander to particular demographics of editors, and there is just sometimes just no accounting for taste. It's all subjective anyway, and if the unfairness of that bothered us too much, we wouldn't compete.

I think this contest is fun because editors are a different demographic than audiences, and even if I don't always agree with the outcome, I enjoy seeing the whole process unfold. Last year's contest I may have been a bit surprised by a few videos that won, but they were all respectable choices, and editor popularity didn't look like an appreciable factor to me.

Just my perspective.

[SailorDeath]

I don't think this contest has been reduced to a popularity contest. Maybe knowing some one's videos could weigh my vote if I were on the fence between two videos I consider equal in quality, but with blind judging I'm perfectly happy to vote against a friend's video content in the knowledge that even if they would care, they never have to know.

Quu mentioned to me a few years ago that the final votes for a lot of the contests have been close. 2 years ago at AWA he told me my Hasa Diga Eebowai video lost by 1 vote. That's what I call close. There's nothing wrong with betaing a video. I really dislike betaing a video to someone I know that's also competing cause it feels like cheating. But that may be just one person. But if you're going to 5 or 6 of the people who are also competing and trying to get them to vote for your video, that's really on a whole other level.

[Moonlight Soldier]

O_o People are outing who made the videos? I didn't get that impression from this thread. (I only know the identities of two, the one I made and one other )

Personally I've always liked PRO over Masters and Expo because it's more of an editor's choice dealie. So I know the couple awards I have won in the past I'm really proud of because they were judged and nominated usually by people who I admire and whose styles I like.

(My other favourite contest option is audience voting, because depending on where it is the results are so varied. And it's another great reason to see how people react. I love attending Vlad's events panels for that because what editors consider great videos and what audiences like can be so polarized.)

Expo is just fun and Masters, while it tends to draw more intense entries, isn't really competitive.

/my two cents :]

[SailorDeath]

O_o People are outing who made the videos?

I believe Pilk was referring to a group viewing/rating of the pro videos.

[Mr Pilkington]

I don't thinks there's any question that it's happened in the past, but the extent to which video sharing is occurring this year is (at least from what I'v seen) disturbing. Now, whether people are level enough to make decisions without that knowledge weighing, that will yet be seen. But I find it hard to believe that someone reliant on that knowledge can make a fair decision. I didn't make the post to start a war, but I think some people lost sight of what the peer review was all about. There needs to be some level of personal responsibility taken to keep this from becoming just another high school prom queen contest, and that time is not after the voting has begun. All I am asking is that during the voting phase, be mindful not of who did or said what, but in your honest opinion did the video have merit. It sounds easy, but is actually much harder than one realizes.


That said, voting this year will be interesting. I can't say there are a lot of jems. Generally there's a massive battle for some category, but from my perspective, I see a lot of categories that might go unfilled on my ballot. I am disappointed in the entries, and I blame myself for that as well. I got caught up in my own editing contest (another story) and lost sight of what pro was about. So when I point the finger, I do realize that on the quality front, I am just as much to blame. And it's not like some of these were total crap, I saw a TON of talent, but a lot of entries were either over edited or under touched. Each pro there is some take-away that I keep as an editor, this year there is so much more to learn for next year on so many fronts.

O_o People are outing who made the videos?

I believe Pilk was referring to a group viewing/rating of the pro videos.

I don't see a problem with group viewings. I don't think its a secret CBR hosts one every year for both editors and fans/friends alike. It's a lot of fun and we don't try to call each other out on videos because of the rules. But have respect for the contests. It's a time to have fun, come together and we've had some real heated debates over what videos are good and why. So in short, practice your poker face, throw some burgers on the grill and enjoy a good viewing night. Just don't sit there and start calling out every editor. It's disrespectful of the contest. The problem is scope and knowing where to distinguish between viewing and a circle-jerk.

Personally I've always liked PRO over Masters and Expo because it's more of an editor's choice dealie. So I know the couple awards I have won in the past I'm really proud of because they were judged and nominated usually by people who I admire and whose styles I like.

(My other favourite contest option is audience voting, because depending on where it is the results are so varied. And it's another great reason to see how people react. I love attending Vlad's events panels for that because what editors consider great videos and what audiences like can be so polarized.)

Great points! All reasons why I think it's important to protect the integrity on the contest. You've been around a long time as well so there have been some calls I'm sure we both agree have been "meh," and I'm sure we could butt heads all night on some. But in the end, there are single digit situations, and none within the last half decade, that were evident of said issue. And I have never found it a concern before. But still, I feel there is a due (not-so) gentle reminder to some on this go.

I don't think this contest has been reduced to a popularity contest. Maybe knowing some one's videos could weigh my vote if I were on the fence between two videos I consider equal in quality, but with blind judging I'm perfectly happy to vote against a friend's video content in the knowledge that even if they would care, they never have to know.

I don't think there has been a problem with this recently. In the past there were some very bad offenders, but most of them just faded out when some of the better, more senior editors by today's standards come on scene and started shaking things up. You'll never hear me say this is a serial issue, I think in the case of this years contest, some people have lost sight of what makes peer review work.


I often disagree with contest results. There are ways to pander to audiences, there are way to pander to editors, there are ways to pander to particular demographics of editors, and there is just sometimes just no accounting for taste. It's all subjective anyway, and if the unfairness of that bothered us too much, we wouldn't compete.[/quote]
I can look at this 2 ways:

• Not every one is doing it, which is evident from these results alone, so we're talking about a small community that may not even have the organization that I am assuming to have. So any harm done is minimal at worst.
• There is no reason to assume it's a deliberate violation. I can see wanting to help people entering by beta testing a lot of videos. But that being the case, don't discuss who did what in a public venue. And in the case of anyone making the specific admittance to an entry, that just shows his/her insecurity.

I think this contest is fun because editors are a different demographic than audiences, and even if I don't always agree with the outcome, I enjoy seeing the whole process unfold. Last year's contest I may have been a bit surprised by a few videos that won, but they were all respectable choices, and editor popularity didn't look like an appreciable factor to me.

Agreed. Again, this is my favorite contest of the year for all of those reasons. The surprise factor is one of the greatest parts of the contest. Rarely have I ever thought a winner flat did not deserve the award. No matter know you stack it, the contest is just fun to experience, start to finish. I would like to continue to see that.

All I am asking the competitors to do is keep in mind the spirit of the contest. Consider this my grumpy old man "keep off my lawn" PSA. My initial temptation was to refuse to vote those videos I knew, but some of those were flat great and it's exactly the same thing i asking people not to do. So all I ask, as I have said probably 40 times in this post already, judge the video not the editor regardless of knowledge.