AWA pro thoughts/followups?

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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby l33tmeatwad » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:51 pm

Copycat_Revolver wrote:
l33tmeatwad wrote:I'm down for exclusive if enough people can be rallied up to make it interesting...that said, I'd rather watch good videos from previous contests than crappy new ones, so that's why I have mixed emotions about it.

So you'd rather watch a few hours worth of videos you've already seen than a huge bounty of never before seen videos for which you are one of the few chosen to witness them first?
Quality isn't as much an issue as you might think. Bring in the good editors and you get good videos. Besides, Expo is full of those sort of videos.

And for that matter, man up and throw your hat in. Will you pledge to send something new in next year? Come on now, enrich the contest.

For one, I really wouldn't NEED to rewatch to rate them accordingly, and yeah I'll send a new one next year if I have time after making my masters video (I also sent one new entry in this year too ;)...)
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby SailorDeath » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:51 pm

BasharOfTheAges wrote:To be honest, I never submitted to pro before because I didn't have anything new to put in. Rule or not, It felt like a bad idea, and a sure fire way to be shunned. I certainly wouldn't want to show my face around the con after doing that. ;)

More on point, though.... can has finals? :puppy eyes:



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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby drewaconclusion » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:52 pm

l33tmeatwad wrote:Let's also not forget that there are more contests, and many of them center around the summer months, and with people putting a lot of work towards contents like Akross that REQUIRE exclusive videos, you have less of a desire by already busy editors to make another new video for a contest that does not require it.

You're making the assumption that the people who'd be submitting to Akross and the people who'd be submitting to AWA Pro are nearly one and the same.

Forgot to point that out in my earlier post.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby l33tmeatwad » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:57 pm

drewaconclusion wrote:
l33tmeatwad wrote:Let's also not forget that there are more contests, and many of them center around the summer months, and with people putting a lot of work towards contents like Akross that REQUIRE exclusive videos, you have less of a desire by already busy editors to make another new video for a contest that does not require it.

You're making the assumption that the people who'd be submitting to Akross and the people who'd be submitting to AWA Pro are nearly one and the same.

Forgot to point that out in my earlier post.

No, I'm simply pointing out other contests that some editors may prioritize more, and an exclusive contest may force them too choose. Not everyone has all the time in the world to sit around and edit, so a bunch of contents with exclusive rules forces them to not submit to one or the other.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:06 pm

SailorDeath wrote:
BasharOfTheAges wrote:To be honest, I never submitted to pro before because I didn't have anything new to put in. Rule or not, It felt like a bad idea, and a sure fire way to be shunned. I certainly wouldn't want to show my face around the con after doing that. ;)

More on point, though.... can has finals? :puppy eyes:



hehe be patient :D site says it'll be up at midnight PST today :D

PST is GMT-8. Midnight is the first moment of the day, not the last. So, that was 18 hours ago.

/just being pedantic to hassle you, not Jingoro

EDIT

@l33tmeatwad - the logo rule for Akross makes things interesting, at least as far as our remake rules here traditionally define things. That version with the logo you make for Akross would technically be a different video than one without it.

Being less of an ass, I'll point out their rule only requires ONLINE exclusivity. Don't upload it anywhere, and you're fine, even if you sent it to cons.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby Rider4Z » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:30 pm

BasharOfTheAges wrote:Being less of an ass, I'll point out their rule only requires ONLINE exclusivity. Don't upload it anywhere, and you're fine, even if you sent it to cons.
either way, pro is still out isn't it? :uhoh:


l33tmeatwad wrote:... I'm simply pointing out other contests that some editors may prioritize more, and an exclusive contest may force them too choose. Not everyone has all the time in the world to sit around and edit...
yeah, me!
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby l33tmeatwad » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:33 pm

BasharOfTheAges wrote:@l33tmeatwad - the logo rule for Akross makes things interesting, at least as far as our remake rules here traditionally define things. That version with the logo you make for Akross would technically be a different video than one without it.

Being less of an ass, I'll point out their rule only requires ONLINE exclusivity. Don't upload it anywhere, and you're fine, even if you sent it to cons.

Don't think that would fly (just adding the logo), and when you submit to Pro you run the risk of someone leaking it and it getting posted on YouTube (which would get you DQed in Akross, although they may let it slide..they also may not let it slide...)
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby Rider4Z » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:43 pm

l33tmeatwad wrote:Don't think that would fly (just adding the logo), and when you submit to Pro you run the risk of someone leaking it and it getting posted on YouTube (which would get you DQed in Akross, although they may let it slide..they also may not let it slide...)

if it's uploaded after you're premiered they'll probly let it slide, youtuber's like to snag them soon as they're available.

if it goes up before you're premiered on akross then you're in a river of excrement in a native american water vessel with no means of propulsion.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby ngsilver » Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:01 pm

So much text to read while I was sleeping getting ready for my 3rd shift tonight....

Copycat_Revolver wrote:And for that matter, man up and throw your hat in. Will you pledge to send something new in next year? Come on now, enrich the contest.

But what if I already threw my hat in? It has been my decree (except in 2006 when I submitted Dance 2.0 just so I could be part of the contest since I couldn't complete a video in time) to send something new and also something different to pro. I actually hold off on making the best video I can until pro every year just so I can send something creative and different from what I usually make in and see what my peers think of it. Some years it's better then others, but often it fails, but at least I get those honest opinions. I did the same this year. And while my decree in the past has always been to submit at least 1 new video to Pro that is like this, I will often submit a 2nd that is more in line with what I would normally make or something that people may have seen before. But I can honestly say, this year, I worked my ass off to have something new and interesting in pro this year, and so far most of you hated it. You hate it for exactly the same reasons I figured you would, some of it is my fault, and some of it is just what I'd expect either way considering the audience I have available in pro. I will continue to deny my involvement in entry #6 until I'm proven as the creator, that's just bad form and seriously who would want to copy something I make for the hell of it when I get enough gifs and a good song, and why would I send that to Pro, that's always been my Expo entry and I often will vow to premier these vids elsewhere. You'd think I'd have learned my lesson after the thrashing Dance 2.0 got in 2006.

Either way, If any of you read through the rules for Pro, you'd see that new entries are encouraged. That's actually in the rules. I know, I went back and re-read them all once again after I took on the job of handling the entry system. Honestly, I think that's really enough on the coordinator's side. Pro should be whatever we the entrants make it. And the experience should be what we get out of it. I have always held Pro up as my own kind of Academy Awards, but for AMVs. I send my best work all year to it, I send it to Pro first and often retire the video after unless coordinators beg for more entries, and I above all else make sure not to beta the video(s) with anyone who I know is entering Pro. I find a lot of the fun in pro is guessing who made what. It's why I dealt with the videos from pro this year almost exclusively via entry number, not paying attention to who submitted what video, I didn't want to ruin that fun. TBH, I have no real clue who sent what beyond the editors who already released their videos on the org and thus I've already seen them as part of my weekly AMV watching routine.

So yeah, what I'm really trying to say is... Sure, I'm with ya on this Copycat. I can't say that I'll find the time to make 2 new videos for Pro and 1 for Masters, but I can say that I'll work on at least 1 new video for pro (and not send anything not new to it if that's the case) and I'll attempt Masters, and both will be the best videos I can make, and everything else, as usual, will go to expo.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby Copycat_Revolver » Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:34 pm

ngsilver wrote:So yeah, what I'm really trying to say is... Sure, I'm with ya on this Copycat. I can't say that I'll find the time to make 2 new videos for Pro and 1 for Masters, but I can say that I'll work on at least 1 new video for pro (and not send anything not new to it if that's the case) and I'll attempt Masters, and both will be the best videos I can make, and everything else, as usual, will go to expo.

Hey, that's all I ask. And I appreciate the effort in previous years as well, no matter what the reception may have been.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby DriftRoot » Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:00 pm

jingoro wrote:I think, and yes, I am seriously considering your opinion, that making the contest exclusive to new content will diminish the value of the award in that respect. In that good videos couldn't compete for the sole reason that their creator would rather have their hard work exhibited in a variety of venues, rather than keep it under wraps.

Please remember that the end-product of this process, aside from your trophy, is an awards show for hundreds of AMV fans who might not have seen content at all these other conventions. They don't know a video was sent around for a year, they just know it was a good video, and are glad for the opportunity to see it on a huge screen with hundreds of their friends.

Please, enjoy the videos for what they are, not where they've been. Your audience does.

It is somewhat mindboggling to me (in a good way) how your stance on this summarizes many of the arguments made AGAINST telling editors who want to enter Anime Expo's competition that they should hide their videos away until after the con. :amv: :up:

That said, while I do not participate very heavily in competitions, AWA Pro has always first and foremost been associated (in my mind) with exclusivity and anonymity. That was not only the fun of it, that was a big part of the whole "judged by your peers, without the popularity contest factor" thing that made this contest (in theory) different and special. I haven't ever managed to make an AWA Pro video, but if I ever did, this is the kind of contest I'd like to enter, not one that's basically just like any other, except it's an odd mashup of online peer voting and con exposure.

It seems fairly clear that the intent of this contest needs to be made much clearer, with so much fuss this year going on about what's a new video and what's not. If AWA is A-OK with non-exclusive videos being entered into the Pro contest, then make that crystal clear, don't drop any verbage about encouraging people to treat it as an exclusive contest, if that's not what it turns out as. If you don't make it clear, then you're kind of putting the rules into the hands of the judges, who are entirely capable of making up their own rules if they don't like yours vague ones (i.e. boycotting non-exclusive videos).
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby l33tmeatwad » Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:28 pm

As someone who had never heard of the competition before last year, I hadn't really caught the vibe until this year that a significant amount of people were interested in it being exclusive. Personally I just loved being part of the pro contest last year and enjoyed the feedback I got from other editors who probably wouldn't have watched my video otherwise (being a rather unknown editor). This is the main reason I wanted to compete again this year as well and I also look forward to next year too.

All I have to say about the exclusivity for next year now that most everyone has spoken up and the gauntlet has been thrown down is...
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby jingoro » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:59 am

SailorDeath wrote:hehe be patient :D site says it'll be up at midnight PST today :D


I failed. My life always seems to go critical in September.
We're down two directors in the VAT... anyone want to help next year?
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby SailorDeath » Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:55 am

jingoro wrote:
SailorDeath wrote:hehe be patient :D site says it'll be up at midnight PST today :D


I failed. My life always seems to go critical in September.
We're down two directors in the VAT... anyone want to help next year?


Normally I'd jump at the opportunity, (actually I always thought about volunteering for awa) but at the same time, it probably means I cannot participate in pro/masters and I have way too much fun doing that and I'm not quite ready to give that up yet. That was always one of my biggest regrets with taking over acen was that I couldn't compete with others anymore.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby SailorDeath » Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:00 am

On another sidenote: would anyone on AWA staff object to me broadcasting the awards on ustream or other service for the folks who didn't get to go to awa to watch? I'd only publish the link on this thread as well as the IRC channel. We did a live cam at acen for the last couple of years I was there and it actually went over pretty well. I got a tablet with camera and mic so it should be easy to setup and run, and If I got lucky enough to get a seat in the front then I wouldn't have a problem pointin the camera at the MC and award recipients.
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