Anime Expo 2012 AMV Contest Thread - WINNERS ANNOUNCED!!!

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Re: Anime Expo 2012 AMV Contest Thread - WINNERS ANNOUNCED!!

Postby outlawed » Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:41 pm

Scintilla, Japan Expo is going to make a Cali con and it will soon dominate the west coast. If AX was worried about AM2 they are in for a world of hurt in a couple years. =p

On a more serious note I'm with Vlad. Just make something requiring submissions must have been made after date X. If you're worried about weird stuff that can pop up all you need to do is get ballsy and make a rule like this: "staff reserves the right to disqualify entries for any reason they see necessary to protect the overall quality and integrity of the program." It's a nice get out of jail card to catch something that can exploit your system or content that falls within the guidelines you set but would cause a huge problem. Then again if a contest is being reviewed by lawyers you can probably just replace this with entries must pass a lawyer check =p. For contest coordinators with minimal oversight having some form of CYA is good.
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Re: Anime Expo 2012 AMV Contest Thread - WINNERS ANNOUNCED!!

Postby outlawed » Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:44 pm

Cyrix wrote:Why would we want to cater to audience members who don't care about AMVs or the contest enough to watch more than five videos? One could also argue if they went to previous conventions they wouldn't want to see a winning video they'd seen before if they only have the attention span for a handful of AMVs.


AMV contests wouldn't exist unless there was a demand. If you don't factor the con audience and their behavior and only cater towards the hardcore AMV community you will deep six your own event.
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Re: Anime Expo 2012 AMV Contest Thread - WINNERS ANNOUNCED!!

Postby outlawed » Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:56 pm

Hagaren Viper wrote:I'm surprised about the potential removal of video game entries, since we've had a few finalists using game footage and made such a huge deal about Dead Fantasy being played in the preshow a while back. Any particular reason for this?


Would the Wedding Rings still be disqualified. That would be my question.
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Re: Anime Expo 2012 AMV Contest Thread - WINNERS ANNOUNCED!!

Postby Tsu » Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:05 pm

xstylus wrote:
---
The Categories:
• Drama & Horror
• Romance & Sentimental
• Action & Adventure
• Comedy & Humor
• Fun, Dance, & Experimental
• Trailer & Parody (Non AMV)

---
y.


I'm not sure that Fun/Dance/Experimental is a good mesh. In other cons I've seen Experimental as more of an effects-heavy, stylized, sandbox type category. Fun and Dance (or upbeat) seem like they would clash with the "experimental" vids and cause a voting discrepancy, since voters seem to enjoy funny vids the most.

Does "Non AMV" for Trailer mean still using anime as a source, just to a trailer audio, not music?
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Re: Anime Expo 2012 AMV Contest Thread - WINNERS ANNOUNCED!!

Postby irriadin » Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:07 pm

foenanko wrote:I'm not sure that Fun/Dance/Experimental is a good mesh. In other cons I've seen Experimental as more of an effects-heavy, stylized, sandbox type category. Fun and Dance (or upbeat) seem like they would clash with the "experimental" vids and cause a voting discrepancy, since voters seem to enjoy funny vids the most.


I agree with this. Experimental videos will get killed in voting by the fun / dance videos, since that is what audiences prefer generally.
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Re: Anime Expo 2012 AMV Contest Thread - WINNERS ANNOUNCED!!

Postby Cyrix » Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:27 pm

Would the Wedding Rings still be disqualified. That would be my question.

They originally defined Parody something like "a Suberunker-type video such as Wedding Rings" if I remember that correctly.

All I'm seeing here is a really silly strawman argument regarding how AMVs either are or aren't products depending on the definition in either a very narrow sense or very overbroad sense, to to try to refute the core of what was meant by "advertising for a product you refuse to deliver." Reductio is fun an all, but it doesn't really hit the point that is when X audience member sees Y AMV at Z contest and can't find it online it makes X audience member sadface and thats why some people will find that it is common courtesy to have it posted publicly after a public showing. Nitpicking over the exact language on how it was expressed is absurdly silly and misses the point.

Swans presented the issue as black and white, essentially the original point was 'creators are obligated to put their videos online immediately and have no right to withhold them'. I disagreed with the use of marketing terminology, obviously, but that wasn't my entire point.

While it may be an editor's prerogative not to release an AMV shown at any contest ever, it doesn't change the fact that some people may find it rude or in the very least mildly inconvienent for one reason or another. That People have the prerogative to act in a way that some people might find rude isn't really telling us anything.

It's an attitude problem. Saying some people might find it rude doesn't tell us anything. Saying editors shouldn't be allowed to not release something is different.

Your closing statement is an ad hominem suggesting the possibility of an attitude problem, which is a bit of a stretch to infer, and doesn't strengthen the position of your own argument. The use of italics does make it look classy though.

That's your closing argument against my post which was in response to "*rolls eyes* look up the definition"? Swans acted like a child and I still wrote out a thought-out post. It also was directly in line with the point of my entire post which was 'people shouldn't behave as if editors have an obligation to release all their videos immediately. It was essentially a closing summary of the entire post, and the "you" can apply to anyone. Not very fitting of an ad hominem attack.
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Re: Anime Expo 2012 AMV Contest Thread - WINNERS ANNOUNCED!!

Postby outlawed » Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:34 pm

xstylus wrote:I think we'll have to agree to disagree, as I'm of the complete opposite opinion. I think it's harmful and disrespectful to the event and the at-con audience (and damaging to the reaction to your video) to post the video online in advance of an event you plan to show your video at (regardless of the event, be it ours or others). And it's not as though it's a "product you refuse to deliver". It's a product that will be delivered after its run is complete. It's no different than Hollywood releasing a movie after its theatrical run is completed. If a studio released the DVD the same day (or before) it was in the theater, why go to the theater?


So basically you are saying your event's needs outweigh those of the people providing you with content. I suppose I can see this POV if I factor that AMVs have been referred to as products in this thread. Let's not forget that AX has been very mercenary about this recently and basically bought relevance instead of establishing something in a more fan oriented way like other cons have through several years of consistent work.

In the traditional hierarchy you would earn the respect of the AMV creators and get their content submissions by conceding things to them and giving them a venue and well run event to show off their work. At the same time you balance that against the need to put on a good show for the con audience which allows you to justify the existence of an AMV event. Of course things change a bit if the norm becomes cash money. I don't think AMV contest coordinators should try to act as producers.

xstylus wrote:Also, as an AMV event runner, I take insult to the notion that AMV exhibitions are just giant advertizements for the AMV download. That notion diminishes the hard work I (and those at other events) put into making these exhibitions something special.


I don't see many AMV creators asserting that. Sure AMV creators enjoy the boost of notoriety contests can give them. There is still a solid core that recognizes the importance of the AMV con events. At the same time I think forcing them to withhold internet distro is not something con coordinators should dictate. This should be a personal choice of the AMV creator. If it is a special event like AWA masters I can see arguing original premieres because of how it integrates as a separate special event with untainted judging. If you attempt to enforce exclusivity for a general contest all you have is a hollow attempt to give the general contest more prestige by default. Keep in mind this comes at the expense of other contests. That is assuming you would treat exclusivity the same against them as the internet. AMV contests do not hold the relevance of a international film festival nor should they aspire to this. If this was an original animation contest I would feel differently. AMVs are a fan hobby.

Also I would like to point out that movie studios can't even keep their stuff from leaking onto the internet. What's to prevent "beta" testers from releasing an AMV =p
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Re: Anime Expo 2012 AMV Contest Thread - WINNERS ANNOUNCED!!

Postby Warlike Swans » Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:43 pm

Cyrix wrote:
Would the Wedding Rings still be disqualified. That would be my question.

They originally defined Parody something like "a Suberunker-type video such as Wedding Rings" if I remember that correctly.

All I'm seeing here is a really silly strawman argument regarding how AMVs either are or aren't products depending on the definition in either a very narrow sense or very overbroad sense, to to try to refute the core of what was meant by "advertising for a product you refuse to deliver." Reductio is fun an all, but it doesn't really hit the point that is when X audience member sees Y AMV at Z contest and can't find it online it makes X audience member sadface and thats why some people will find that it is common courtesy to have it posted publicly after a public showing. Nitpicking over the exact language on how it was expressed is absurdly silly and misses the point.

Swans presented the issue as black and white, essentially the original point was 'creators are obligated to put their videos online immediately and have no right to withhold them because they have already advertised for them'

While it may be an editor's prerogative not to release an AMV shown at any contest ever, it doesn't change the fact that some people may find it rude or in the very least mildly inconvienent for one reason or another. That People have the prerogative to act in a way that some people might find rude isn't really telling us anything.

It's an attitude problem. Saying some people might find it rude doesn't tell us anything. Saying editors shouldn't be allowed to not release something is different.

Your closing statement is an ad hominem suggesting the possibility of an attitude problem, which is a bit of a stretch to infer, and doesn't strengthen the position of your own argument. The use of italics does make it look classy though.

That's your closing argument against my post which was in response to "*rolls eyes* look up the definition"? Swans acted like a child and I still wrote out a thought-out post. It also was directly in line with the point of my entire post which was 'people shouldn't behave as if editors have an obligation to release all their videos immediately. It was essentially a closing summary of the entire post, and the "you" can apply to anyone. Not very fitting of an ad hominem attack.


I have a new word for you to look up: projection.

Since this has escalated (or devolved, depending on perspective) to the point of insults, I will also add that your reading comprehension is poor, and you have no business trying to summarize the arguments of others. Have an eye-roll, you earned it: :roll:


--------------------------------------------
In regards to trying to preserve the freshness of videos that have already been posted online you could respectfully request that editors not include Anime Expo in their tags or descriptions until after the contest, that way people can't find the videos in advance merely by looking up "AX Finalist 2013" on Youtube or Google. (I doubt most contest goers are checking the .Org thread anyway.)

Though personally, I don't see the necessity for even that.


----Edit----
I didn't see this post initially among the others.

xstylus wrote:
Warlike Swans wrote:I find it incredibly disrespectful of editors to enter contest with a video that they don't intend to release until after a bigger contest. It's advertising a product you refuse to deliver.



I think we'll have to agree to disagree, as I'm of the complete opposite opinion. I think it's harmful and disrespectful to the event and the at-con audience (and damaging to the reaction to your video) to post the video online in advance of an event you plan to show your video at (regardless of the event, be it ours or others).

And it's not as though it's a "product you refuse to deliver". It's a product that will be delivered after its run is complete. It's no different than Hollywood releasing a movie after its theatrical run is completed. If a studio released the DVD the same day (or before) it was in the theater, why go to the theater?

Also, as an AMV event runner, I take insult to the notion that AMV exhibitions are just giant advertizements for the AMV download. That notion diminishes the hard work I (and those at other events) put into making these exhibitions something special.


I did not mean to indicate that contests are merely advertisements, and I certainly don't mean to devalue the work of contest coordinators.

I am looking at this from the point of view of the audience. The contest exists for the audience-- not for the glorification of the editors or the contest coordinators. ConS are very social experiences, and not everyone prioritizes the AMV contest. People want to be able to share their experiences, and with an AMV just talking about it really doesn't get the point across. Being able to share an AMV when one gets back to his/her hotel room only enhances the experience and raises the hype for next year's contest. It doesn't devalue the contest, it makes it more social.
Last edited by Warlike Swans on Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anime Expo 2012 AMV Contest Thread - WINNERS ANNOUNCED!!

Postby machina21 » Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:07 pm

xstylus wrote:The Freshness matter shall continue to be worked on (I'm rather surprised by the amount of pushback on it overall), but for now let's move on.

Here's the planned categories for 2013:

---
The Categories:
• Drama & Horror
• Romance & Sentimental
• Action & Adventure
• Comedy & Humor
Fun, Dance, & Experimental
• Trailer & Parody (Non AMV)

Maximum Submissions Rule:
Entrants may submit a maximum of three AMVs plus one Trailer/Parody. No two videos may be for the same category.
---

This should be relatively controversy free. The intent was simplicity. I wanted every category to be obvious and self explanatory.


Sounds like the AMVTV zombie has appeared. AS others have said, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to include this with this particular category since the Fun,Dance videos would get more of an advantage. It would also be kind of confusing, Fun and Dance aka Upbeat is pretty straightforward. Experimental could be anything. It might work under Trailer & Parody, although the (Non AMV) descriptor seems to note that already

Long useless story short: Drop the experimental tag. Without it you basically have a pretty typical category structure and it looks like it'll do nicely.
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Re: Anime Expo 2012 AMV Contest Thread - WINNERS ANNOUNCED!!

Postby Cyrix » Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:44 pm

I have a new word for you to look up: projection.

Since this has escalated (or devolved, depending on perspective) to the point of insults, I will also add that your reading comprehension is poor, and you have no business trying to summarize the arguments of others. Have an eye-roll, you earned it

What, exactly, would I be projecting? Childishness is not a substitute for a counterargument. I see responding to you was a waste of time. I guess that's my contribution to the drama quota, anyway. |:> Away!

edit: Although I had a final point... we've discussed up and down how exclusivity or no-online rules will affect the audience's experience, but has anyone brought up the judging? If creators are submitting videos that have existed online for quite some time, and/or played at other contests, there's a possibility that the judges (who are presumably AMV fans) will have already seen most of the entries and may have preconceived opinions about what should go into finals in the first place.
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Re: Anime Expo 2012 AMV Contest Thread - WINNERS ANNOUNCED!!

Postby Hagaren Viper » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:35 pm

There's only one problem I have with the new categories...
Spoiler :
• Drama :ying: & Horror


That is all.

Also, three cheers for Fun & Dance |:>
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Re: Anime Expo 2012 AMV Contest Thread - WINNERS ANNOUNCED!!

Postby Shin-AMV » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:57 pm

Hagaren Viper wrote:There's only one problem I have with the new categories...
[spoiler]
Also, three cheers for Fun & Dance |:>


hip hip hooray
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Re: Anime Expo 2012 AMV Contest Thread - WINNERS ANNOUNCED!!

Postby XStylus » Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:28 pm

outlawed wrote:
Hagaren Viper wrote:I'm surprised about the potential removal of video game entries, since we've had a few finalists using game footage and made such a huge deal about Dead Fantasy being played in the preshow a while back. Any particular reason for this?


Would the Wedding Rings still be disqualified. That would be my question.


No. And I think it was a mistake and an injustice that it happened.

Also, while I would like to curtail the blatantly non-anime game stuff a bit better, video games tangentially related to anime will continue to be permitted to a significant degree.

I am also open to hearing arguments for or against permitting vids with primary footage from shows that are, for all intents and purposes, anime in every way but nationality, such as Avatar: The Last Airbender and Boondocks.
Last edited by XStylus on Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Anime Expo 2012 AMV Contest Thread - WINNERS ANNOUNCED!!

Postby XStylus » Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:48 pm

Hagaren Viper wrote:There's only one problem I have with the new categories...
Spoiler :
• Drama :ying: & Horror


That is all.

Also, three cheers for Fun & Dance |:>



"Experimental" shall be dropped.

Also, the Freshness rule shall be simplified to just the 12month limit. I accept the need to demonstrate that this event can walk without stumbling before I can expect it to run with Lance Armstrong.
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Re: Anime Expo 2012 AMV Contest Thread - WINNERS ANNOUNCED!!

Postby RAWdangers » Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:51 pm

xstylus wrote:
Hagaren Viper wrote:There's only one problem I have with the new categories...
Spoiler :
• Drama :ying: & Horror


That is all.

Also, three cheers for Fun & Dance |:>



"Experimental" shall be dropped.

Also, the Freshness rule shall be simplified to just the 12month limit. I accept the need to demonstrate that this event can walk without stumbling before I can expect it to run with Lance Armstrong.


I feel the need to point out that Lance Armstrong does not run and is also currently in a pretty big doping lawsuit, not sure if he was the best choice of examples.
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