JCAs 2011 - Results in on page 6!

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Re: JCAs - Judges aboard, final voting!

Postby Snowcrash » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:18 pm

Otohiko wrote:Oh there is definitely a Russian among the judges this year. Just because I only lurk around AMVnews and AKROSS and usually don't post doesn't make me any less Russian >__>

Oh you are russian ? :shock:
Didn't realize.
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Re: JCAs - Judges aboard, final voting!

Postby Kosmit » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:32 pm

Otohiko wrote:Oh there is definitely a Russian among the judges this year. Just because I only lurk around AMVnews and AKROSS and usually don't post doesn't make me any less Russian >__>

Ooops... Sorry Oto for forgetting you are indeed Russian. That was mainly because I was thinking along the lines of "which AMV community you're a part of". And I probably lurk on amvnews more than you do ;-)
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Re: JCAs - Judges aboard, final voting!

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:56 pm

Otohiko wrote:Oh there is definitely a Russian among the judges this year. Just because I only lurk around AMVnews and AKROSS and usually don't post doesn't make me any less Russian >__>

However I agree with Lirinis, a multi-language interface would be very helpful, especially for things on the site that already draw a big international audience (like the VCA).

So, lurking on those communities, you feel there is actual desire to participate in the process and share feedback year-round that's being hampered by a language barrier and not just a yearly rally cry for nationalistic ballot stuffing?
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Re: JCAs - Judges aboard, final voting!

Postby MimS » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:00 pm

Personally, I read this thread and I saw lots of org active people nick whereas I didn't see any French mentioned several times (excepted Nostro) though even if it's not an official org contest, for me it is like it was.
Also, since nobody came talk to me about JCAs and knowing it's about users' voting, I consider that I'm not needed in the process : o
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Re: JCAs - Judges aboard, final voting!

Postby Otohiko » Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:26 pm

BasharOfTheAges wrote:
Otohiko wrote:Oh there is definitely a Russian among the judges this year. Just because I only lurk around AMVnews and AKROSS and usually don't post doesn't make me any less Russian >__>

However I agree with Lirinis, a multi-language interface would be very helpful, especially for things on the site that already draw a big international audience (like the VCA).

So, lurking on those communities, you feel there is actual desire to participate in the process and share feedback year-round that's being hampered by a language barrier and not just a yearly rally cry for nationalistic ballot stuffing?


I think things are more complicated than that. More than anyone I feel a cultural barrier between the two communities, and as communities go, yes I do identify more with the .org and the North American AMV scene. I sympathise with the Russian complaints (and similar French ones) to a certain extent, but I think one of the big problems for both is that it's hard to see AMVs outside the context of their own community and culture. More than anything, there are big differences in what people see as merit in AMVs.

The ideas of "good" definitely have a lot of overlap between any AMV communities, but then in some things they're almost polar opposites. Looking at the AMVnews discussion right now, I see less nationalism and more "WHAT IS THIS SHIT THIS CONTEST IS FULL OF CRAP THAT IS NOT EVEN GOOD". I also often hear "what is this effects-laden crap, these videos are horrible" from the American side. Especially on the Russian side, with its rigorous contest structure and stiff competition for recognition and merit, people often start to become blind to where their definitions of 'good' come from.

This is probably a whole separate discussion, but I feel that everyone is a little guilty of constantly objectifying merit in videos. There's no such thing. Any judgment call is always both personally and culturally subjective. I think most people see the personal part, but are totally blind to cultural bias and regard any attack on it as some sort of nationalistic insult.
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Re: JCAs - Judges aboard, final voting!

Postby godix » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:08 pm

For what it's worth, I've thought about taking the JCA towards an multi-community thing before. I figured something like six judges, 2 each from the Russian, French, and Org communities in whatever way the relevant communities wanted to choose judges. Those are the only three fairly large separate amv communities I know of really. Well, aside from youtube and there's no way I'd step into that mess.

The reason I never did this is there's a certain arrogance to it. With the way JCA is now, it's based solely on the VCA videos. Asking other communities to join in would be basically telling them 'fuck your contest, come take part in ours'. To really work, it would need some way of incorporating vids from all communities. Something like taking the VCA finalists, the top X results of AKROSS and/or amvnews.ru Big contest, plus whatever equivalent the French have.

That's about the point where I ditched this idea for the following reasons:
A) it goes so far beyond what the JCA was setup as that rather than twist the JCAs like that it would be better to start a new contest thingie.
B) Language barriers. I'd have to rely entirely on other people to interface with the Russians & French sites since I don't speak either language.
C) It would require a fuckload of coordination between community leaders. I couldn't imagine doing it without Org admins, evilspider, etc assisting. Partially for the language, partially just to get the word out, and partially because I don't know exactly how those communities would want to select videos.
D) I'm not entirely sure it would be welcome. I strongly suspect at least one of the communities I mentioned would have a 'cooperate with someone from the org? Fuck that shit' attitude.
E) Probably most importantly, I'm lazy.
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Re: JCAs - Judges aboard, final voting!

Postby Ikore » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:46 pm

godix wrote:plus whatever equivalent the French have.

JapanExpo?

plus I agree with Nya´s idea "inter-communities" jury would be great and btw multi-face interface is a terrific idea. :up:
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Re: JCAs - Judges aboard, final voting!

Postby Moonlight Soldier » Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:39 pm

Otohiko wrote:I think one of the big problems for both is that it's hard to see AMVs outside the context of their own community and culture. More than anything, there are big differences in what people see as merit in AMVs.


Quoted for truth.

If you're making something for the fun of it and well, because you can, it's probably not going to go over well in places that want to push the boundaries and one up each other.

Since I enjoy a relatively low-key fanbase (aka very few people :P); when people do upload my stuff elsewhere, I get a mix of people either accepting and liking a video for what it is; (usually fans of the series I'm using); or the people who watched the video solely because it won somewhere and want to understand why.

When you're competing frankly it doesn't matter what language you speak, the criticism is going to be harsh. Harsher still if you can't fathom the context be it cultural or otherwise. (And that exists in North America as well be it Canada vs. U.S. or east vs. west; hell English vs. French Canada etc. let alone across the ocean.)

This exists everywhere, especially where art is concerned. For me, I see it in a lot of photography communities I've joined. For example; I see a lot of work by Russian photographers, that while technically sound and having great composition do absolutely nothing for me. (And in the case of some are freaky as all hell :shock: .) Do I recognize that they are talented photographers with artistic vision? Yes. Would I ever want their prints to put on my wall? Probably not. Would I ever enter a Russian photography contest? I might to see the kind of feedback I'd get, but I sure wouldn't expect to win :P

Point is, VCAs/JCAs Akross/JapanExpo etc. are what they are. But you really can't expect a UN-style round table. It'd be unrealistic to expect any country/fanbase/contest to agree on the common goal of who/what is better. Just embrace what you get out of the contests and keep the dialogue open between communities.

Sorry for the tl;dr :amv:
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Re: JCAs - Judges aboard, final voting!

Postby CorpseGoddess » Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:16 pm

Moonlight Soldier wrote:
Otohiko wrote:I think one of the big problems for both is that it's hard to see AMVs outside the context of their own community and culture. More than anything, there are big differences in what people see as merit in AMVs.


Quoted for truth.

If you're making something for the fun of it and well, because you can, it's probably not going to go over well in places that want to push the boundaries and one up each other.

Since I enjoy a relatively low-key fanbase (aka very few people :P); when people do upload my stuff elsewhere, I get a mix of people either accepting and liking a video for what it is; (usually fans of the series I'm using); or the people who watched the video solely because it won somewhere and want to understand why.

When you're competing frankly it doesn't matter what language you speak, the criticism is going to be harsh. Harsher still if you can't fathom the context be it cultural or otherwise. (And that exists in North America as well be it Canada vs. U.S. or east vs. west; hell English vs. French Canada etc. let alone across the ocean.)

This exists everywhere, especially where art is concerned. For me, I see it in a lot of photography communities I've joined. For example; I see a lot of work by Russian photographers, that while technically sound and having great composition do absolutely nothing for me. (And in the case of some are freaky as all hell :shock: .) Do I recognize that they are talented photographers with artistic vision? Yes. Would I ever want their prints to put on my wall? Probably not. Would I ever enter a Russian photography contest? I might to see the kind of feedback I'd get, but I sure wouldn't expect to win :P

Point is, VCAs/JCAs Akross/JapanExpo etc. are what they are. But you really can't expect a UN-style round table. It'd be unrealistic to expect any country/fanbase/contest to agree on the common goal of who/what is better. Just embrace what you get out of the contests and keep the dialogue open between communities.

Sorry for the tl;dr :amv:


Not tl;dr at all. That was actually a pretty good "sum up" (to use Inigo Montoya's phrase) of amv creation/critique/criticism in general. :awesome:
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Re: JCAs - Judges aboard, final voting!

Postby Scintilla » Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:06 pm

Moonlight Soldier wrote:But you really can't expect a UN-style round table.

Actually, now that APH is out stateside, I expect to see quite a few of those this coming year. :P
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Re: JCAs - Judges aboard, final voting!

Postby Moonlight Soldier » Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:48 pm

CorpseGoddess wrote:Not tl;dr at all. That was actually a pretty good "sum up" (to use Inigo Montoya's phrase) of amv creation/critique/criticism in general. :awesome:


INCONCEIV---I mean :awesome:

@Scintilla lol touche.
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Re: JCAs - Judges aboard, final voting!

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:24 pm

So, are the JCA results going to wait on this VCA tiebreaker to be done before announcing?
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Re: JCAs - Judges aboard, final voting!

Postby mirkosp » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:35 pm

BasharOfTheAges wrote:So, are the JCA results going to wait on this VCA tiebreaker to be done before announcing?

Yes, but it seems that they aren't done judging yet ─ there are a couple things left, if I understood what nya and kosmit were saying on IRC earlier today.
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Re: JCAs - Judges aboard, final voting!

Postby Nya-chan Production » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:22 pm

mirkosp wrote:
BasharOfTheAges wrote:So, are the JCA results going to wait on this VCA tiebreaker to be done before announcing?

Yes, but it seems that they aren't done judging yet ─ there are a couple things left, if I understood what nya and kosmit were saying on IRC earlier today.

Actually, the main judging is done and I'm mainly polishing it now thanks to the extension.

But yes, the plan is to announce the results at the same time or slightly later as VCAs results.
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Re: JCAs - Judges aboard, final voting!

Postby JudgeHolden » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:18 pm

mirkosp wrote:
BasharOfTheAges wrote:So, are the JCA results going to wait on this VCA tiebreaker to be done before announcing?

Yes, but it seems that they aren't done judging yet ─ there are a couple things left, if I understood what nya and kosmit were saying on IRC earlier today.



That sounds like a former eastern-block style conspiracy there .... "Just got to polish up the warhead a bit, comrade." :P
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